Sheep And Goats

[Lil Red]

[quote name='hot stuff' date='28 July 2010 - 10:01 PM' timestamp='1280379697' post='2149410']Of course I'm also hoping that heaven is reeeeeeeaaaally huge because there's more than a few of you that I really don't want to run into.[/quote]
[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=106778"]?[/url]

but i think you are joking.

Edited July 29, 2010 by Lil Red

[Lil Red]

as to the poll:

i don't know. i think, it will be more or less than you think it will be, depending on your worldview.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='hot stuff' date='28 July 2010 - 10:01 PM' timestamp='1280379697' post='2149410']
Of course I'm also hoping that heaven is reeeeeeeaaaally huge because there's more than a few of you that I really don't want to run into.
[/quote]
is that kinda like when everyone you know gets invited to this huge, awesome party, but it includes family members who get drunk, people who won't shut up, and those really obnoxious neighbors (and you hope you don't have to talk to any of them?)? of course, i don't think the list compares because there's not sin in heaven.

which brings up a point: will people have all their quirks in heaven (talking too much, etc)?

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Lil Red' date='29 July 2010 - 11:05 AM' timestamp='1280415957' post='2149453']
is that kinda like when everyone you know gets invited to this huge, awesome party, but it includes family members who get drunk, people who won't shut up, and those really obnoxious neighbors (and you hope you don't have to talk to any of them?)? of course, i don't think the list compares because there's not sin in heaven.

which brings up a point: will people have all their quirks in heaven (talking too much, etc)?
[/quote]
Nothing unclean shall enter. So I would think being obnoxious, holding grudges or drunkenness would not be a problem in heaven.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' date='29 July 2010 - 09:20 AM' timestamp='1280416827' post='2149462']
Nothing unclean shall enter. So I would think being obnoxious, holding grudges or drunkenness would not be a problem in heaven.
[/quote]
I agree.

One of the beautiful things about the Catholic faith is that we have the sacrament of reconciliation. Through this sacrament, we acknowledge that sin breaks relationships, both with God and man, but that through grace God allows those relationships to be restored and repaired.

Restoration of relationship includes a restoration of fellowship. That means we are invited to partake of the Eucharistic feast, in which we are together united with Christ in his sufferings. We are also called to forgive one another as we have been forgiven. The sacramental graces of reconciliation and the Eucharist do not just restore and bind us in relationship to God, but to one another.

Here and now, we can experience restoration of relationship in an imperfect way, but in heaven it will be perfect because sin will not be part of the equation. We will enjoy perfect relationships with God and with our brothers and sisters who are also in heaven.

Red, I don't know about whether or not people will still have quirks, but I think if they do have quirks we won't be bothered by them. I think we would find them endearing, because our reactions will no longer be tainted by sinfulness, and we'll have all of eternity so it won't matter if someone takes up a bunch of time talking.

[Socrates]

[quote name='notardillacid' date='29 July 2010 - 02:12 AM' timestamp='1280383954' post='2149419']
You cut me deep!


Anyway, it's more of a just-for-fun poll. I'm not looking for super serious debate, just people's rough estimates.
[/quote]
Just making sure, bro.

You just can't be sure who's really who on here nowadays.

[jeffpugh]

[quote name='hot stuff' date='29 July 2010 - 01:01 AM' timestamp='1280379697' post='2149410']
I'm going with most everyone.

Of course I'm also hoping that heaven is reeeeeeeaaaally huge because there's more than a few of you that I really don't want to run into.


Sweet I voted the same as Catherine.
[/quote]
You might have to sort that attitude out in Purgatory, first.

[jeffpugh]

[quote name='Socrates' date='29 July 2010 - 01:16 PM' timestamp='1280423766' post='2149502']
Just making sure, bro.

You just can't be sure who's really who on here nowadays.
[/quote]
Oh snap!

[Hassan]

I'M GOING TO HELL!


Probably.

I think that I merit eternal torture.


Unless Islam turne out to be correct. In which case I'm still going to hell, particularly after those pictures

[img]http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4146/4840867177_f00cbee786_b.jpg[/img]


But at least I'll still have the phatmass phamily to keep me company, and the irony will be positively delicious


















Unless there is not heaven or hell

[sistersintigo]

For no good reason this thread reminds me of Jacques Offenbach and his "Orpheus" operetta.
In English everybody mostly calls it "Orpheus in the Underworld."
The actual French is "Orphee aux Enfers." Which more nearly means, "Orpheus Goes to you-know-where", kind of like "Gidget Goes to New York."
The famous can-can from this operetta, by the way, is the "Galop Infernal" in French, or if you prefer, "the Infernal Can-Can." It is not danced/sung until the final act, down in you-know-where.
Before that, there is an act on the heights of Mount Olympus, with the pantheon of Graeco-Roman pagan gods and goddesses, most of whom go about complaining, "Nectar and Ambrosia give us HEARTBURN, can't we get a break around here?" By the end of the Olympian act, it is agreed that Orpheus has permission to search for Eurydice (remember Eurydice??) in you-know-where, AND that the full complement of Olympians ought to come along and accompany him there. So they all break out into the little-known Olympian Can-Can:
"La la la la la, Off we go, let's go, let's go, la la la la la la let's go let's go let's go let's GO!!!!! AAAAAAAH!
"No more nectar and ambrosia! No more celestial blue firmament! And an excuse to have a laugh for a change!
"Thanks be to God, we're off to ****!"

[God the Father]

Baaa! Baaa! Bleeeaaat

I've reserved a booth in hell, I figured it's safe and would be wise to do so at this point. I'm not much of a Catholic, but if the rules are really the rules, about .0001% of people I know/have met follow them, serious rules included, so it's gonna be crowded. Of those, I think 99% are posters at this forum, so congrats all of you.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='God the Father' date='29 July 2010 - 10:15 PM' timestamp='1280459728' post='2149763']
Baaa! Baaa! Bleeeaaat

I've reserved a booth in hell, I figured it's safe and would be wise to do so at this point. I'm not much of a Catholic, but if the rules are really the rules, about .0001% of people I know/have met follow them, serious rules included, so it's gonna be crowded. Of those, I think 99% are posters at this forum, so congrats all of you.
[/quote]

You are probably correct that most Catholics (including those on this forum) have committed mortal sin before. Thankfully for bad Catholics like us, Christ instituted the Sacrament of Penance.

[Jaime]

I know notardillacid doesn't want a heavy debate on this topic but I think its a little unsettling to joke about "reserving a booth in hell" or burning in hell with Phatmassers and "enjoying the irony'.

I feel safe in saying that no one who posts here desires hell. And I sincerely believe that most folks will end up making their way to heaven.

[Hassan]

[quote name='hot stuff' date='29 July 2010 - 11:54 PM' timestamp='1280462053' post='2149777']
I know notardillacid doesn't want a heavy debate on this topic but I think its a little unsettling to joke about "reserving a booth in hell" or burning in hell with Phatmassers and "enjoying the irony'.

I feel safe in saying that no one who posts here desires hell. And I sincerely believe that most folks will end up making their way to heaven.
[/quote]

[i]
"Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the road broad that leads to destruction, and those who enter through it are many. How narrow the gate and constricted the road that leads to life. And those who find it are few.[/i] Matthew 7:13-14

I'm hardly a Biblical scholar and it has been a long time since I read the Bible. As I recall, however, this is the general sentiment. The road to salvation is narrow and few will enter into heaven. As I recall, most of the parables that Christ told end with a minority of characters being ready when the bridegroom arrives and finding salvation.

Pursuant to rational self-interest, no I would not desire hell. If I were a more moral person, however, I would prefer hell to heaven if all are not saved. I don't see how any morally pure person could enjoy the salvation of heaven while most of humanity is outside grinding and gnashing their teach in the fires of sweet Jesus' Gehenna. I can't think of any human being who has ever lived who doesn't haven even the seeds of the possibility of redemption within him. No human being I am aware of is totally and utterly evil (I don't think you all can believe this either. I think I remember Aquinas saying that even Satan was not totally evil because he possessed good and God given qualities like intellect, but I could well be wrong) and only someone utterly evil could merit eternal, redemptive punishment.

A lot of Christians try to downsize the number of damned. I think that in general (I'm not trying to speak for you in particular) that is because a lot of people are on some level deeply troubled by the idea of hell. I don't see how a small number being damned changes anything. You still have a small number of people being tortured for all eternity. It is torture whether you pain and anguish the damned experience is the absence of God's love, being in the presence of God without being in a saving state of grace, or actual physical torture. And I don't see how it is possibly justified.

[jeffpugh]

[quote name='Hassan' date='30 July 2010 - 01:00 AM' timestamp='1280466017' post='2149798']
[i]
"Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the road broad that leads to destruction, and those who enter through it are many. How narrow the gate and constricted the road that leads to life. And those who find it are few.[/i] Matthew 7:13-14

I'm hardly a Biblical scholar and it has been a long time since I read the Bible. As I recall, however, this is the general sentiment. The road to salvation is narrow and few will enter into heaven. As I recall, most of the parables that Christ told end with a minority of characters being ready when the bridegroom arrives and finding salvation.

Pursuant to rational self-interest, no I would not desire hell. If I were a more moral person, however, I would prefer hell to heaven if all are not saved. I don't see how any morally pure person could enjoy the salvation of heaven while most of humanity is outside grinding and gnashing their teach in the fires of sweet Jesus' Gehenna. I can't think of any human being who has ever lived who doesn't haven even the seeds of the possibility of redemption within him. No human being I am aware of is totally and utterly evil (I don't think you all can believe this either. I think I remember Aquinas saying that even Satan was not totally evil because he possessed good and God given qualities like intellect, but I could well be wrong) and only someone utterly evil could merit eternal, redemptive punishment.

A lot of Christians try to downsize the number of damned. I think that in general (I'm not trying to speak for you in particular) that is because a lot of people are on some level deeply troubled by the idea of hell. I don't see how a small number being damned changes anything. You still have a small number of people being tortured for all eternity. It is torture whether you pain and anguish the damned experience is the absence of God's love, being in the presence of God without being in a saving state of grace, or actual physical torture. And I don't see how it is possibly justified.
[/quote]
Heaven isn't about people, though. It's about basking in God's uncreated presence. It's about enjoying the mystery of the triune God for eternity!