What Is Formation Really Like?

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

As someone who has never been in religious life, I have often wondered what formation is really like. Most of the videos I've seen either celebrate a joyous event such as a clothing or final vows, or they are obviously videos meant to attract young women to religious life. For example, I loved the video "Beloved" on the Nashville Dominicans, and the joy the Sisters exuded, but after seeing it, I wanted to ask, "Okay, what are the bad parts?" After all, EVERY life style has bad parts, from school, to marriage, to a job--no life is perfect. For example I wanted to know what it was like to live in a dormitory with all those other postulants, and how they manage to get ready all at the same time for for prayers at a very early hour of the morning. And, what's it like to go to college as a postulant or habited nun? Even if it is a Catholic school, the Sisters must stand out, and are they allowed to talk to other students, etc. I'm not saying the makers of "Beloved" should have done anything different, just that the video brought up a lot of questions for me.

I recently read "In This House of Brede" and it gives a lot of details of the difficulties faced in everyday life in a monastery (as well as the joys). But, the book was written in 1969, and the convent is cloistered and located in the UK. The book is now 40 years old, and certainly things have changed. For example, I imagine most monasteries in the U.S. today have showers, and you don't have to bathe from a bucket of water using lye soap). Or maybe not. Maybe that's what it's still like.

I happened across this detailed article written by a Sister of Visitation of Tyringham, MA about her formation. The article is about 5 years old, but is still closer in time than 1969. The Sister is very candid about the difficulties of formation, but obviously has no regrets that she chose a religious vocation. I hope some of you find it interesting, as I did. (It's quite long, so I'm just giving the link.)

[url="http://www.vistyr.org/novitiate.html"]http://www.vistyr.org/novitiate.html[/url]

[linnie]

That was so lovely to read! Thank you for posting it

[lookingforfaith]

It was such a great article! Thanks!!!

[laetitia crucis]

Thank you for posting that article, Iggy! I read it last night -- it was GREAT!

[ksterling]

Considering where I am in the discernment process, this is VERY interesting to me and thanks, Ignatius, for posing the question and providing the link to the article, which I really enjoyed reading. I am curious about everything - including matters that seem insignificant (recall my question about wearing men's undershirts.) The dorm issue at the NDs has always been problematic for me. On the one hand I think I am being uncharitable - if God wants me in Nashville, I will "offer it up." On the other, I cannot change who I am and the very thought of sleeping in the same room as 25 (or whatever) other women is very unappealing (curtains notwithstanding.) Do they use dorms anywhere else? Does everyone try taking a shower at the same time? I would come to any community already trained to do something. Would the community decide to retrain me for something else? Are my interests and talents considered? Do postulants ever actually have teaching assignments? If not, what do they do when other postulants are in school? I know that I will learn the answers to these questions once I actually visit communities but I'm an info sponge and patience is a virtue I do not possess (SD says I must work on that one - I am but it's tough.) Also, it looks like it will be a few months before I can do any visiting since most communities I have been in touch with as busy getting ready for a new class of postulants.

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='ksterling' date='26 July 2010 - 08:30 AM' timestamp='1280151043' post='2148192']
Considering where I am in the discernment process, this is VERY interesting to me and thanks, Ignatius, for posing the question and providing the link to the article, which I really enjoyed reading. I am curious about everything - including matters that seem insignificant (recall my question about wearing men's undershirts.) The dorm issue at the NDs has always been problematic for me. On the one hand I think I am being uncharitable - if God wants me in Nashville, I will "offer it up." On the other, I cannot change who I am and the very thought of sleeping in the same room as 25 (or whatever) other women is very unappealing (curtains notwithstanding.) Do they use dorms anywhere else? Does everyone try taking a shower at the same time? I would come to any community already trained to do something. Would the community decide to retrain me for something else? Are my interests and talents considered? Do postulants ever actually have teaching assignments? If not, what do they do when other postulants are in school? I know that I will learn the answers to these questions once I actually visit communities but I'm an info sponge and patience is a virtue I do not possess (SD says I must work on that one - I am but it's tough.) Also, it looks like it will be a few months before I can do any visiting since most communities I have been in touch with as busy getting ready for a new class of postulants.
[/quote]

I'm glad you enjoyed this article. I wish there were a lot more like them. Like you, I am interested in details, and Web sites and vocation videos are very short on details. (However, putting it in context, I DO realize religious communities are incredibly open now compared to how they were in the past, so we can be grateful for that.)

Someone who has been in religious life correct me if I'm wrong, but I get the strong feeling that in any community, the postulant and novitiate years are mostly spent in learning, not teaching.

As for the ND's, somewhere on their Web site they do say what postulants do who already come in with a degree and a teaching certificate. Those postulants go to school also (even those with teaching certificates) to learn "the Dominican way of teaching." Plus, it appears that postulants only go to school in the mornings, so it can't be more than a class or two. And, I can understand the emphasis on the "Dominican way of teaching." I'm sure their vocation videos show only the best, but it's clear that the Sisters are very good teachers, who have an enthusiasm and love that is unique. Unlike most Order's, the ND's have only one Novitiate year, and under Canon law, in ANY Order, one year of the Novitiate (the Canonical Novitiate year) is to be spent not on an active apostolate, but on learning, and prayer, and strengthening the Novice's personal relationship with God.

At the ND's, simple profession happens after 2 years (but they spend longer in temporary profession than many Orders, so in the end, the time they spend before final vows evens out). Their Web site says that some temporary professed who already have teaching certificates, may do some teaching--it isn't specific how much, but I'd suspect that some of it is student teaching or team teaching with an experienced Dominican teacher.

As for how a community would use the skills you came in with seems, from what I've read, to depend a lot on the Community and the specific circumstances. But, I've heard young Sisters who came in with specific skills where the Superior deliberately gave them another task unrelated to their training to teach humility, and to broaden their skills. On the other hand (and this is an unlikely scenario), if it were a small community and the Sister who handled the accounting suddenly dropped dead, they might ask you to use your accounting skills, but it not in charge necessarily, maybe only as an assistant to a Sister who was longer in religious life and knew more about the ways of the community, but nothing in accounting.

I admire your gumption to even consider religious life. I had problems with humility in the secular job world--I can't imagine myself in a religious community. But, then again, the more I read about religious life, the more I realize that I don't have the call or the relationship with God that religious women have. And, the whole notion of being a "bride of Christ" is still very foreign to me, probably because I have been married. I can recognize it in others and have a great respect for it, but it's still a very new concept to me.

Strangely, the thing that would be almost impossible for me besides humility and obedience, is that the Novitiate in many (most?) Orders seems to spend a lot of time cleaning, cooking, etc. My family is very odd because my Sister is the uber-wife/mother. She holds down a very responsible full-time job, but also cleans and cooks. (Although they can afford to have someone come in once a week to clean, and both my sister and BIL love to cook, so they share responsibility for that.) I, on the other hand, HATE cleaning, feel "meh" about cooking--I am not domestic AT ALL. So when I hear of how much cleaning postulants and novices seem to have to do, it would be like telling me I'd have to spend hours a day with my feet in boiling oil. I would be SO unhappy. And, I know I could never clean as perfectly as nuns clean. Heck, I don't even "see" dust most of the time. I know some women love to clean, and I wish I were one of them. But, I'm not.

Even in "This House of Brede" where they have a "class" system and some Sisters never become full nuns and spend their life on domestic chores, the choir postulants and novices still have to do a good amount of cleaning. Communities today don't have a "class sytem" so everyone pitches in. On the other hand, in a large community like the ND's, I don't know how much cleaning is required once you are fully professed, since the Motherhouse has more than 200 Sisters.

It may be that my strong feelings about cleaning are worse now because I'm not physically able to do much, and I have no help, so my house is always dirty. Maybe if I had a normal amount of energy, I wouldn't enjoy it cleaning, but could handle it, and it wouldn't be a deal-breaker.

I'm rambling, as usual. I'm glad you appreciated this article. I did, just because she gave lots of details, and talked about what her specific struggles were and what was expected of her versus virtually all the information available which simply says, "It's hard to be a Postulant and Novice," and stops there. Perhaps when you actually go to visit Orders, you'll find out more of the "nitty gritty." I hope so.

Edited July 26, 2010 by IgnatiusofLoyola

[cmaD2006]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='26 July 2010 - 08:53 PM' timestamp='1280188410' post='2148471']
Someone who has been in religious life correct me if I'm wrong, but I get the strong feeling that in any community, the postulant and novitiate years are mostly spent in learning, not teaching.
[/quote]
Most communities (not all though) have a two year novitiate. Note -- the 1st year (even if the novitiate is say a year and a half) is the cannonical year. Both the cannonical year and the postulancy are learning periods. I believe that the 2nd part of the novitiate is still a learning period but the sister (in active communities) begins to do apostolate. A postulant may as well -- but that will depend on the community. Note that a postulant nor a novice (well maybe a 2nd year novice) will be "in charge" of anything; if a postulant has a apostolate it is alongside of a sister who is in charge. At least I think this would be the norm (if the postulant has an apostolate).

[elizabeth09]

Pretty. Thank you for sharing and posting.

[osapientia]

[b]Just a couple of thoughts...[/b]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='26 July 2010 - 08:53 PM' timestamp='1280188410' post='2148471']
Unlike most Order's, the ND's have only one Novitiate year, and under Canon law, in ANY Order, one year of the Novitiate (the Canonical Novitiate year) is to be spent not on an active apostolate, but on learning, and prayer, and strengthening the Novice's personal relationship with God.

[indent][b]In active orders, as well as monastic (contemplative orders) the postulants and novices can and do share in the apostolate, with limitations, but as someone else said this would likely (but not necessarily) be in the "extra" 6 months in the case of a 1.5 year novitiate. For example, however, in Petersham the postulants and novices all participate in the apostolate (inside the enclosure) from day 1 (in addition to their classes of course).[/b][/indent]

As for how a community would use the skills you came in with seems, from what I've read, to depend a lot on the Community and the specific circumstances. But, I've heard young Sisters who came in with specific skills where the Superior deliberately gave them another task unrelated to their training to teach humility, and to broaden their skills. On the other hand (and this is an unlikely scenario), if it were a small community and the Sister who handled the accounting suddenly dropped dead, they might ask you to use your accounting skills, but it not in charge necessarily, maybe only as an assistant to a Sister who was longer in religious life and knew more about the ways of the community, but nothing in accounting.

[indent][b]In my experience (which is with monastic orders) postulants do a LOT of cleaning - particularly the cleaning of bathrooms. Please don't ask me why, the obvious answer is just too much to speak out loud. <wink wink> As for using the skills one has upon entry, it's not at all likely that a postulant would be asked to use these skills. It is generally accepted that a person needs time and space away from their "worldly" pursuits in order to integrate into the community...again please note I do not have experience with active communities. I might add here, that although this practice may seem harsh, it is actually quite a joy if one allows oneself to be swept up into their new life....if you will, the advice to "live the life, not judge it" is a very wise way to enter into the life of a religious house. Despite one's natural leanings, if one is called to a particular place the "ways" of that place must be integrated into ones own way of being. It's not easy but obviously it's done all the time...for the greater glory of God.[/b][/indent]

I admire your gumption to even consider religious life. I had problems with humility in the secular job world--I can't imagine myself in a religious community. But, then again, the more I read about religious life, the more I realize that I don't have the call or the relationship with God that religious women have. And, the whole notion of being a "bride of Christ" is still very foreign to me, probably because I have been married. I can recognize it in others and have a great respect for it, but it's still a very new concept to me.

[indent][b]Just something to consider - while there may be similarities to corporate life, a convent, motherhouse or monastery is not a corporation and the obedience given is "just that"...given, it is not paid for, forced, nor coerced...though it may be encouraged. <smile>An "aside"...if one feels forced or coerced this is probably something to bring to the formation director/novice or postulant mistress..obedience should be encouraged but never forced.[/b][/indent]

Even in "This House of Brede" where they have a "class" system and some Sisters never become full nuns and spend their life on domestic chores, the choir postulants and novices still have to do a good amount of cleaning. Communities today don't have a "class sytem" so everyone pitches in. On the other hand, in a large community like the ND's, I don't know how much cleaning is required once you are fully professed, since the Motherhouse has more than 200 Sisters.

[indent][b]There are still monasteries these days that have a similar type of "class" system as described by "In This House of Brede". It's not exactly the same as the norms have changed and the Magisterium has said that "lay and extern" sisters while they can (and do) exist, they are not to be excluded from the main life of the community and should now always live inside the cloister. Their roles are different from the "choir" nuns (and they do not take a vow of enclosure even if the choir nuns do so) but they are full members of the community.[/b][/indent]

[b]A little aside from experience...formation is a lot like living in a fish bowl. A beautiful fish bowl where the fish are mostly kind and accepting, but a fish bowl nonetheless. Just my .02[/b]

Pax,
Osap

[/quote]

[ksterling]

I have read that in some communties - the sisters in formation do not speak to, or interact with professed sisters any more than necessary. Someone please tell me that custom is a relic of the past and is no longer observed. It seems counter-productive and not conducive to establishing "sisterly bonds."

[laetitia crucis]

[quote name='ksterling' date='27 July 2010 - 11:54 AM' timestamp='1280246052' post='2148688']
I have read that in some communties - the sisters in formation do not speak to, or interact with professed sisters any more than necessary. Someone please tell me that custom is a relic of the past and is no longer observed. It seems counter-productive and not conducive to establishing "sisterly bonds."
[/quote]

In my experience of religious life this was definitely [i]not[/i] a custom. Also, in my experiences of various "Come and See"s (DSMME, CFRs, Sisters of Life, Little Sisters of the Poor, MCs, etc) this did not seem to be a custom.

I'd be curious to know if this still happens anywhere.

[osapientia]

[quote name='laetitia crucis' date='27 July 2010 - 01:24 PM' timestamp='1280247886' post='2148705']
In my experience of religious life this was definitely [i]not[/i] a custom. Also, in my experiences of various "Come and See"s (DSMME, CFRs, Sisters of Life, Little Sisters of the Poor, MCs, etc) this did not seem to be a custom.

I'd be curious to know if this still happens anywhere.
[/quote]
Yes, it does happen....but it's not as bad as it might seem. For instance I can tell you that in one community I know well, those in formation do not "get friendly" with the professed nuns. They talk to them for work, during daily recreation (if there is only one person in formation they have it with the professed), during "big" recreations, like "movie night" or something special (a talking meal for instance) and during "vacation" days.

Once a person is in simple profession they are free to speak with the professed in the same manner as all the professed - which means they can take walks or sit down for a chat in free time etc.

One of the purposes for such a practice is that it does "protect" the community from getting too close to those who could "leave at the drop of a hat" (one might say).

Honestly, it's not bad.....not the easiest thing to get used to but it's temporary and there are breaks from the practice. Of course this experience was with a monastic community who all lived together in one place...active orders with Motherhouses that house the professed along with those in formation could (and seem to be from your email) very different.

Pax
Osap

[JTheresa]

[quote name='laetitia crucis' date='27 July 2010 - 12:24 PM' timestamp='1280247886' post='2148705']
In my experience of religious life this was definitely [i]not[/i] a custom. Also, in my experiences of various "Come and See"s (DSMME, CFRs, Sisters of Life, Little Sisters of the Poor, MCs, etc) this did not seem to be a custom.

I'd be curious to know if this still happens anywhere.
[/quote]
My community still does it. The only thing that they keep seperate is mealtimes and the professed don't come into the novitiate building. They only do this because they don't want to worry about the entire community forming the novices and postulants, just the novice or postulant mistress. On Saturdays we have a scheduled recreation with the simple professed, and on Sundays we eat in the professed dining room. They also do a lot of traveling together when they are giving retreats and stuff, and quite a few of the professed teach the postulants and novices classes. So there are some limitations, but they aren't horrible. I used to think it was really dumb, but I guess I undersand now. I definitely don't want to be more confused than I already will be lol.

[osapientia]

[quote name='JTheresa' date='27 July 2010 - 05:42 PM' timestamp='1280263372' post='2148834']
My community still does it. The only thing that they keep seperate is mealtimes and the professed don't come into the novitiate building. They only do this because they don't want to worry about the entire community forming the novices and postulants, just the novice or postulant mistress. On Saturdays we have a scheduled recreation with the simple professed, and on Sundays we eat in the professed dining room. They also do a lot of traveling together when they are giving retreats and stuff, and quite a few of the professed teach the postulants and novices classes. So there are some limitations, but they aren't horrible. I used to think it was really dumb, but I guess I undersand now. I definitely don't want to be more confused than I already will be lol.
[/quote]
Excellent point about not having too many sisters involved in the formation process. I forgot about that one.

pax,
osap

[SNJM]

Here is an interesting article about the concept of "lay sisters" - which is what was referred to above in someone's post (the reference to [u]In This House of Brede's[/u] "class system."

http://ses.library.usyd.edu.au/bitstream/2123/4440/1/Vol4No1Article6.pdf

I think the article makes a very good point of showing this doesn't really exist today for a variety of reasons, namely the changing structures of women and their economic freedom (and their ability to become educated independent of their family's means - however, as we all know - that can often lead to student debt).

Every community handles "formation" differently with good reason - by living in community and following a prescribed (organized) constitution and charism - which makes each community stand alone in and of itself - the community and individual are asked to live out that particular charism which initially motivated the Founder and/or Foundress to develop such a community. A Benedictine Nun, with a call to hospitality - a life of balanced prayer and work - and a commitment to protect and keep alive the Divine Office will certainly undergo a very different formation than a Missionary Sister who feels called to "spread the Good News to all people, from the highest hill top to the very deepest valley."

Canon Law is complicated and deep. It is only too easy to read one or two lines and find what one is looking for when the reality is that an experienced Canon Lawyer is often needed for complicated situations, individual circumstances and specific events. We cannot possibly come to any clear conclusions about formation as a whole when the Church counts amongst her daughters such a rich variety of lived experiences and charisms, all good, coming from the Holy Ghost.

If someone is truly interested in living vowed religious life within a community, I would strongly suggest they pose their questions (which can only be considered quite valid for someone who is considering such a life) to the Formation Director, the Novice Mistress, and/or the Abbess/Prioress/Sub-Prioress/Mother Vicar/Mother Superior/General Director, etc., - and if there seems to be confusion and/or something missing and/or "not right" to follow up with the Vicar of Religious for that diocese.

I hope this information helps.