Explaining Why Convents Only Take 18-35 Year Olds?

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='CherieMadame' date='26 July 2010 - 01:41 PM' timestamp='1280169686' post='2148301']
Oh, I definitely agree that it is a "pat" answer. I had mentioned before I know of a New York socialite woman who entered a very austere Discalced Carmelite monastery at the age of 70! According to that answer, being a socialite and being 70, she'd NEVER be able to handle the rigors of religious life ... but she is proof that God's ways are not our ways! Although she admitted the transition was difficult (and I think it can be just as difficult for an 18-year-old--anyone's transition to religious life is difficult, because it's so different from life in the world) ... she has made her final vows and is doing VERY well!
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This may be a different person, but the nun I'm aware of was from San Francisco and entered a Carmelite community here in Illinois and she is still there. I hope she actually is doing well there, (as opposed to the community just saying she is doing fine, as they would say about any member of the community, because it really is no one else's business how she is doing). At the time she entered, her children (and friends) gave interviews because she was so well known in San Francisco society, and apparently she was a very difficult parent who became alienated from a couple of her children, as well as being a difficult person in general. Based on her personality, I would expect almost any religious community to turn her down, whatever her age.

I have always wondered whether the reason the community took her, and overlooked her age and personality was because she was very rich and likely brought a big dowry with her. I'm not saying AT ALL that the nuns were materialistic. But, I HAVE wondered whether a different 70-year old applicant (even one with an ideal personality for the community) would have been admitted. I'm sure the money WAS NOT used to provide luxuries for the nuns, but to help pay the debts that Communities always seem to have, and to be able to give more money to charities and others in need. Also, because of the money, the community wouldn't have to worry about paying medical expenses when this nun got older--that is a very real concern for many communities with that have lots of elderly Sisters and nuns.

I read an interesting story fairly recently about the community she entered. The community was filing a suit because they had been defrauded of, I believe, $800,000, by an Ugandan couple. My first thought was "Where did the community get $800,000 to give away?" Also, (as an aside) it showed, at least to me, that there may be some benefit in at least one member of the community staying in touch with the world sufficiently to hear of the numerous scams that have been perpetrated over the Internet and other ways by crooks from Uganda, and looked into the situation more before giving money. There have been several instances in the past few years of frauds in the Chicago area, perpetrated by Ugandans.

I will give the convent the benefit of the doubt, but I have always wondered about all the reasons this nun was accepted, especially when I went back and read the reports in the San Francisco press about this nun's entrance.

On a related subject, I will not give details or name names but a woman over 50 on Phatmass had applied to numerous convents and most turned her down simply because of her age and no other information. And, although she did enter at least two, it didn't work out. I have no idea if it didn't work out because it was not the right community for her, but from her accounts, she felt that least one issue was because the members of the community had a very hard time dealing with an older postulant.

I also have often wondered how younger postulants react to an older postulant. I have never been in religious life, but I have heard younger women say (not ALL younger women by any means--just some) that they would prefer a religious community with a lot of younger people. And, I think this is an honest concern. Older nuns might not understand how different it is to grow up in today's world, and so not understand how today's younger postulant has inevitably led a very different life from when the older nun was a postulant. Also, the younger women, quite understandably, want to join an Community that is alive and well, not dying out.

But, I also remember that when I was in my teens and 20's, I often felt uncomfortable around older or elderly people--and that is something I am not proud of. As I have gotten older, I have realized that in very many important ways I still feel as if I am still 18--many of your emotions don't change. Middle-aged and older people are not THAT different from younger people if you get to know them as friends, not as parents.

Just to give one example, I have heard younger people (no one here on Phatmass) say they feel that it's kind of gross when an older couple falls in love and gets married, as if sex is only for younger people. You definitely don't lose your need for love and yes, for sex, as you get older. Your body is aging, but most of the emotions are still the same. Many older women have to get used to celibacy because there are so few older men around. But, I would venture to guess that many of them would love to have a husband to love, and have sex with. My grandmother fell in love with a man in her retirement community at age 84.

So, as I usually say, it's a difficult situation that I don't fully understand, and probably wouldn't fully understand or be able to help change even if I knew at lot more about religious life. I understand the points of view of both sides, and both sides have honest concerns that deserve to be taken seriously.

I'm glad this subject was brought up, and I have appreciated all the responses, and look forward to hearing the points of view of others.

Edited July 26, 2010 by IgnatiusofLoyola

[Cherie]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='26 July 2010 - 04:14 PM' timestamp='1280175287' post='2148351']
This may be a different person, but the nun I'm aware of was from San Francisco and entered a Carmelite community here in Illinois and she is still there. I hope she actually is doing well there, (as opposed to the community just saying she is doing fine as they would say about any member of the community, because it really is no one else's business how she is doing). At the time she entered, her children (and friends) gave interviews because she was so well known in San Francisco society, and apparently she was a very difficult parent who became alienated from a couple of her children, as well as being a difficult person in general. Based on her personality, I would expect almost any religious community to turn her down, whatever her age.
[/quote]

Ah, I'm quite sure it must be the same nun. The reason why I said she was from New York is because the Sister I know who knows her is also a socialite, but she is from New York. Apparently she is doing well aside from the community itself saying so, because she would periodically write the Sister I know and say so herself.

I don't know any of the circumstances regarding finances and I really wouldn't like to speculate, but I know that she was put under the same rigors that all their postulants go through when she entered, which provided some pretty humbling (and sometimes humorous!) stories that she had related.

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='CherieMadame' date='26 July 2010 - 03:36 PM' timestamp='1280176607' post='2148372']
Ah, I'm quite sure it must be the same nun. The reason why I said she was from New York is because the Sister I know who knows her is also a socialite, but she is from New York. Apparently she is doing well aside from the community itself saying so, because she would periodically write the Sister I know and say so herself.

I don't know any of the circumstances regarding finances and I really wouldn't like to speculate, but I know that she was put under the same rigors that all their postulants go through when she entered, which provided some pretty humbling (and sometimes humorous!) stories that she had related. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif[/img]
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I'm VERY glad to hear from an unofficial source that she is doing well (rather than from "official" sources who quite correctly guard their words), because I honestly wish the best for anyone who enters religious life.

If I remember the articles correctly, this nun had always been very religious (although she loved her husband, too). And, I guess that a person who has such a "strong" personality can, if they want, turn their "strong will" in a different direction to use it on themselves in learning obedience to God. It's a good lesson to us that we shouldn't assume the limits of what God can accomplish when he and the person are working toward the same goal.

And, I'm sure that the money that this nun brought with her to the monastery has been used for acts of goodness and kindness that we will never hear about (and shouldn't). Not to forget that having influential friends can help accomplish good things, as well. And, considering the publicity she got when she entered, the faith that this nun has shown HAS to have had influence extending to people who have never met her.

Edited July 26, 2010 by IgnatiusofLoyola

[cmaD2006]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='26 July 2010 - 05:14 PM' timestamp='1280175287' post='2148351']
I also have often wondered how younger postulants react to an older postulant. I have never been in religious life, but I have heard younger women say (not ALL younger women by any means--just some) that they would prefer a religious community with a lot of younger people. And, I think this is an honest concern. Older nuns might not understand how different it is to grow up in today's world, and so not understand how today's younger postulant has inevitably led a very different life from when the older nun was a postulant. Also, the younger women, quite understandably, want to join an Community that is alive and well, not dying out.
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Well my personal experience was that the younger NUNS/SISTERS had an issue with me; from a conversation with one of the postulants from my class who also left she didn't think that the other postulants had an issue with my age. We all had our issues/ways of being/quirks, and as a group of postulants we did get along (we were 17 at one time).

Personally I think the best community would be one with an entire range of ages -- lots of younger, lots of older, and lots-of-ages-inbetween. This is more balanced and healthier for formation; especially since they would have gone through many issues that younger communities have not faced (ex: death of its members).

Again I do need to say that my last situation in formation was not a standard one ... nonetheless the Lord allowed it for my growth and experience.