MarkKurallSchuenemann Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 [quote name='Sternhauser' timestamp='1294865810' post='2199427'] I didn't see Jesus say that at all. [/quote] Okay. [quote name='Sternhauser' timestamp='1294865810' post='2199427'] Of course. The government doesn't have any right that you don't already have, except to take money from your neighbors at gunpoint or the threat of violence, and provide monopoly "services" for them, threatening any competition that dares to edge in. [/quote] And now you see the danger of giving the government way too much power. The citizen's of our nations have given the government this kind of power, because we considered them 'rulers', which they are not. There is only one thing that rules the first world, the rule of law! [quote name='Sternhauser' timestamp='1294865810' post='2199427'] I don't know where you're from. Here, if they don't find anything, they simply plant evidence. It happens on a routine basis. They get[i] caught [/i]doing it more than every once in a while. [/quote] Unfortunately, there are corrupt individuals who do that - and they seriously need to be taken off any police force the moment they are caught. [quote name='Sternhauser' timestamp='1294865810' post='2199427'] Does it offend your conscience to pay taxes that will be used to buy ammunition that will be used murder someone? [/quote] I want to say yes it does, but this isn't the time or the season for us to stand against the decisions our governments are making. One day, it will be time to do that, but not today. [quote name='Sternhauser' timestamp='1294865810' post='2199427'] The State murdered 200,000,000 in the 20th century. That could not have been done without the power to conscript or the power to tax. The State is harmful to humanity. [/quote] You are completely correct, and that doesn't account for the millions communist countries have murdered. [quote name='Sternhauser' timestamp='1294865810' post='2199427'] ~Sternhauser [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sternhauser Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 (edited) [quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1294961295' post='2199826'] And now you see the danger of giving the government way too much power. The citizen's of our nations have given the government this kind of power, because we considered them 'rulers', which they are not.[/quote] There is no such thing as "enough" power to the State. And "any" power is too much. Once you give someone sanction to take money from non-aggressors at gunpoint, and to enslave others to fight for him, it's all over, Mark. It's done. You've started an avalanche with ease, but you'll never be able to stop it. It will [i]take[/i] everything in the environment to increase its own size, and as it does so, the speed at which it does so will increase exponentially. [quote]There is only one thing that rules the first world, the rule of law![/quote] The rule of law. And who writes laws? Men. It is a rule of men, Mark, and the sooner you realize that you are ruled by capricious men, and not by letters written on pieces of paper, the better. The only sound that catches their ears is the clinking of 30 pieces of silver. Your voice squeaking "Please, consider the Constitution! Your sacred oath! The Law!" means nothing to them. They have power. You and a lot of other people have given it to them. [quote]Unfortunately, there are corrupt individuals who do that - and they seriously need to be taken off any police force the moment they are caught.[/quote] The foxes are going to police themselves when they start harming the hens? [quote]I want to say yes it does, but this isn't the time or the season for us to stand against the decisions our governments are making. One day, it will be time to do that, but not today.[/quote] Not that I disagree, but what is your reasoning behind that statement? [quote]You are completely correct, and that doesn't account for the millions communist countries have murdered.[/quote] It does. ~Sternhauser Edited January 14, 2011 by Sternhauser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 I'm not saying he killed her, but I understand. An alternate title to this: dairygirl goes to flooping jail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkKurallSchuenemann Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Sternhauser' timestamp='1294963535' post='2199838'] Not that I disagree, but what is your reasoning behind that statement? [/quote] You might not like me quoting scripture and interpreting it, but Joel Chapter 2 does say the Lord will raise an army, and it will cause an entire world wide destruction of the old and bring in something new, and at first, the people will weep and repent, but the Lord will bring back prosperity before the end. If one more government does something that brings about significant number of deaths through war, I plan on standing up and finally saying, it is obvious the leaders in our governments have caused these issues between all nations for the past century. They have repeatedly refused to listen to us, the citizens of our nations, as we say, we want to live without war. It is time that humanity finally stands up and stops this madness before these madmen actually destroy every single one of us through war! Edited January 14, 2011 by MarkKurallSchuenemann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MithLuin Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Thought of another movie that is relevant to this 'is it okay/a good idea to take the law into your own hands?' thread. [url=http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0109579/]Death and the Maiden[/url] Basic plot - in an isolated location, a man and his wife play host to a stranger...whom she is convinced was responsible for her kidnap, torture, and rape years ago. They take him hostage, hold 'trial' and then decide whether or not to execute him. Part of the tension comes in because the husband is never convinced they even have the right guy. Spoiler! Confession scene (warning - discussion of very explicit and disgusting things) [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ls3WG8kNvw[/media] In this one, no execution occurs...though it is clear at the very end that he [i]is[/i] guilty. To make it even more galling, the movie is directed by Roman Polanski, who was convicted of raping a young teenage girl, but never served his time because he fled the country. The ending scene is very....'haha, I got away with it, you sucker!!' Even so...I don't think the solution is to go kill the guy. We [i]all[/i] must face final judgment. No one 'gets away with it', and those who suffer their punishment in this life, may be spared some consequences in the next. Vengeance is mine, says the LORD...so if you want to be about the Lord's business, then you best have some sort of mandate from heaven to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sternhauser Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 (edited) [quote name='MithLuin' timestamp='1295361806' post='2201389'] In this one, no execution occurs...though it is clear at the very end that he [i]is[/i] guilty. To make it even more galling, the movie is directed by Roman Polanski, who was convicted of raping a young teenage girl, but never served his time because he fled the country. The ending scene is very....'haha, I got away with it, you sucker!!' Even so...I don't think the solution is to go kill the guy. We [i]all[/i] must face final judgment. No one 'gets away with it', and those who suffer their punishment in this life, may be spared some consequences in the next. Vengeance is mine, says the LORD...so if you want to be about the Lord's business, then you best have some sort of mandate from heaven to do so. [/quote] Mith, I've long held it has nothing to do with the person being morally guilty or not. That's up to God. I believe that if a person is a direct and grave danger to others, even through no moral fault of his own, and if the only possible way to prevent him from harming others is by executing him, it is just to do so. Let's look at this case, Mith. A rapist and a murderer will never be prosecuted by anything [i]you[/i] would consider "an objective and impartial arbiter of justice." He's going to continue killing and raping. Perhaps he's been paid off State officials, (gasp!) and you know this for a fact. Are you morally permitted to kill him in order to stop him, given that the State is not doing "its duty?" ~Sternhauser Edited January 19, 2011 by Sternhauser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkKurallSchuenemann Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 [quote name='Sternhauser' timestamp='1295470378' post='2201891'] Mith, I've long held it has nothing to do with the person being morally guilty or not. That's up to God. I believe that if a person is a direct and grave danger to others, even through no moral fault of his own, and if the only possible way to prevent him from harming others is by executing him, it is just to do so. Let's look at this case, Mith. A rapist and a murderer will never be prosecuted by anything [i]you[/i] would consider "an objective and impartial arbiter of justice." He's going to continue killing and raping. Perhaps he's been paid off State officials, (gasp!) and you know this for a fact. Are you morally permitted to kill him in order to stop him, given that the State is not doing "its duty?" ~Sternhauser [/quote] I totally agree with this, if you see that murderer or rapist in the act. How morally irrehensible would it be to see someone raping and murderering a woman and not stop them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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