dairygirl4u2c Posted July 25, 2010 Author Share Posted July 25, 2010 (edited) i know it sounds loony, but, i might not be opposed to putting OJ in a layman jail (better term than manmade jail). it's just not right he's free right now. i dont know if courts are inherently the only way to do things. so as far as that, i might be open to entrapping him. doens't affect me, or others, such as abortionists do, and he looks to be generally not a danger to society. so i wouldnt push the issue. i know if it was my family he killed, i might want him put in my own prison. but, would want to know why it's okay for christians to advoctate puting him in jail, for justice only, but no if it's not through the court. most people who murder are not dangers to society, they had a bad time once, yet we still do it for justice. we might in principle say it's for deterrence, or 'who knows if tey're really danger', but these are effectively just rationalizations, for 'justice'. (more appropriately.... revenge?) // plus, even if one to insist on these things i call rationalizations, why couldnt a person take it into their own hands, usuingthose very same arguments? i do know, if a person did it themself, they might be culpable, in that, they'd be doig X, largely out of revenge. even it's it's the proper act, with good motives, there's still bad motives, making it perhaps culpable. if society does it, the bad motives problems are not there as much. --- but ifi t's the proper acct, and no one else has done it... aren't the bad motives just incidental in whether or not to ultimately do it? Edited July 25, 2010 by dairygirl4u2c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dairygirl4u2c Posted July 25, 2010 Author Share Posted July 25, 2010 (edited) but ifi t's the proper acct, and no one else would do it... aren't the bad motives just incidental in whether or not to ultimately do it? (and you'd be guilty of the vengeful feelings, regardless of whether you did it anyways. though, putting action to feelings, might make it worse, just as actiosn to good thoughts, makes it all fulfilled.) but ifi t's the proper acct, and no one else would do it... aren't the bad motives just incidental in whether or not to ultimately do it? Edited July 25, 2010 by dairygirl4u2c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonkers Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 Can you kill winchester too while you're at it? Or maybe just poke him with a fork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dairygirl4u2c Posted July 25, 2010 Author Share Posted July 25, 2010 (edited) i also have bouts of obsessive culpulssive disorder. dont think it's clinical, but. less so as i get older, too, though. that, and my friend with ADHD said that disease gives one the ability to hyperfocus. so both makes it such that im able to hyperfocus very well. probably, helped make it such that i was stunningly good at advanced math in school. (fluctuating at borderline of 'gifted' and 'genius', not solidly genius by any means i'll stick a fork in him, if he's overcooked. Edited July 25, 2010 by dairygirl4u2c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilde Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 [quote name='dairygirl4u2c' date='25 July 2010 - 04:19 AM' timestamp='1280020791' post='2147667'] i'll stick a fork in him, if he's overcooked. [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted July 25, 2010 Share Posted July 25, 2010 [quote name='dairygirl4u2c' date='24 July 2010 - 07:13 PM' timestamp='1280016805' post='2147631'] i know it sounds loony, but, i might not be opposed to putting OJ in a layman jail (better term than manmade jail). it's just not right he's free right now. i dont know if courts are inherently the only way to do things. so as far as that, i might be open to entrapping him. doens't affect me, or others, such as abortionists do, and he looks to be generally not a danger to society. so i wouldnt push the issue. i know if it was my family he killed, i might want him put in my own prison. but, would want to know why it's okay for christians to advoctate puting him in jail, for justice only, but no if it's not through the court. most people who murder are not dangers to society, they had a bad time once, yet we still do it for justice. we might in principle say it's for deterrence, or 'who knows if tey're really danger', but these are effectively just rationalizations, for 'justice'. (more appropriately.... revenge?) // plus, even if one to insist on these things i call rationalizations, why couldnt a person take it into their own hands, usuingthose very same arguments? i do know, if a person did it themself, they might be culpable, in that, they'd be doig X, largely out of revenge. even it's it's the proper act, with good motives, there's still bad motives, making it perhaps culpable. if society does it, the bad motives problems are not there as much. --- but ifi t's the proper acct, and no one else has done it... aren't the bad motives just incidental in whether or not to ultimately do it? [/quote] OJ is in jail in Nevada right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dairygirl4u2c Posted January 10, 2011 Author Share Posted January 10, 2011 i bet a lot of people use the courts to justify the killing of people, or detention of them. the point of the thread is to ask,why courts are so inherently required and justified. sure there's practical considerations such as bad judgement when we take the law into our own hands, and objectivity in making decisions. but at the end of the day, we know OJ is guilty for example, etc. so why aren't those who want him in jail ,or those for the death penalty, willing to just detain or kill OJ? my main guess is that the court system is a way to not take responsibility for what people say they believe or do believe, or say or would do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 The justice system is to keep chaos at bay. There are people who believed I deserved to die for betraying my race. There are people who believe that Obama deserves to die for his pro-abortion views. There are people who think homosexuals deserve to die, or drug addicts or gamblers. There are people who believe the Westboro Baptist church should all be done away with. If we could all take the law into our own hands, decide what the law should be from our own perspectives, then only the strongest, meanest people would survive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dairygirl4u2c Posted January 10, 2011 Author Share Posted January 10, 2011 that sounds like a 'tragedy of the commons' 'tit for tat' practical stuff. not a moral reason. 'if i take it into my hands, then others will...' etc. even if we came to that conclusion practically, that doesn't mean we can't say at least in principle, that OJ should be put in a private prison or killed by a private person, even if not by the court system. and besides that 'in principle' matter, sometimes we should just say 'to hell' with the practical concerns, for obvious cases. i wouldn't kill OJ cause i don't believe in the death penalty ususally, but taking justice into one's own hands, i dont see as inhernetly wrong. except for hte parts of the bible that say to respect the laws of man - which say not to take justice into one's own hands. there's still the 'in principle' thing though, if those laws didn't exist... what then? and whey we have to follow those ideas that only the law can punish... why in all stiatuations should that rule be applied? at the end of the day the principel should be conceded that he should be punished by private citizens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AudreyGrace Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Matthew 22:21 "And He said to them, 'Then repay to Caesar what belongs to Caesar and to God what belongs to God.'" Jesus taught that we obey the government and what they ask of us (unless they told us to kill children, for example). Since the courts and our government have said that OJ is not guilty, we have to obey their decision, or at least come to terms with it. Granted, there are some laws that are our duty to fight, aka Roe V. Wade, in which case we're AGAINST killing unborn children.. see what I mean? One of the Ten Commandments is "You shall not kill." So I think that pretty much sums it up... Also, we do not know if OJ will convert and repent towards the end of his natural life. Hopefully he will, and we must give him the time and the freedom to do that in the first place. All we can do is pray for his soul. Remember, God desperately wants an intimate relationship with all of us, even OJ Simpson : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkKurallSchuenemann Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 (edited) [quote name='AudreyGrace' timestamp='1294689051' post='2198671'] Matthew 22:21 "And He said to them, 'Then repay to Caesar what belongs to Caesar and to God what belongs to God.'" Jesus taught that we obey the government and what they ask of us (unless they told us to kill children, for example). Since the courts and our government have said that OJ is not guilty, we have to obey their decision, or at least come to terms with it. Granted, there are some laws that are our duty to fight, aka Roe V. Wade, in which case we're AGAINST killing unborn children.. see what I mean? One of the Ten Commandments is "You shall not kill." So I think that pretty much sums it up... Also, we do not know if OJ will convert and repent towards the end of his natural life. Hopefully he will, and we must give him the time and the freedom to do that in the first place. All we can do is pray for his soul. Remember, God desperately wants an intimate relationship with all of us, even OJ Simpson : ) [/quote] Actually, Jesus said only to give what is rightfully theirs, If my government drafted me, I would immediately, upon entering training camp, go up to my drill instructor and say that the Geneva Convention gives me the right to not to obey any command that offends my conscience. It offends my conscience to learn how to murder people who are just as against going to war as I am, and it also offends my conscience to be put into a battle situation in which I will be required to fire upon people I know wouldn't want to go to war as much as I don't want to go to war. I respectfully ask to be put into the stockade of this base for the duration of the war! The government doesn't have a right to tell me to go out and murder people, because I don't have a right to murder people. It's is a government of the people for the people. If I can't go out five hours after the fact to kill someone that saw murder someone - because that is murder itself, than I my government can't rightfully say to me, go to war against this person, until they fire upon us. I'd go into jurisdictional law, but I don't want to complicate things that much in regards. There is too much of this 'peace-keeping' stuff the American's are doing right now, and I don't consider much of it legal, except Afghanistan - because Osama Bin Laden was there. But enough on that rant. [quote name='AudreyGrace' timestamp='1294689051' post='2198671'] One of the Ten Commandments is "You shall not kill." So I think that pretty much sums it up... Also, we do not know if OJ will convert and repent towards the end of his natural life. Hopefully he will, and we must give him the time and the freedom to do that in the first place. All we can do is pray for his soul. Remember, God desperately wants an intimate relationship with all of us, even OJ Simpson : ) [/quote] I agree with that statement Edited January 11, 2011 by MarkKurallSchuenemann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sternhauser Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 [quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1294711409' post='2198807'] Actually, Jesus said only to give what is rightfully theirs, [/quote] What, precisely, did Jesus say was rightfully Caesar's? I already know what is rightfully God's. ~Sternhauser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkKurallSchuenemann Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Sternhauser' timestamp='1294712128' post='2198810'] What, precisely, did Jesus say was rightfully Caesar's? I already know what is rightfully God's. ~Sternhauser [/quote] Taxes, and anything else it has the rights to do. Living in a democratic republic (well, up here it's a monarch republic), the government doesn't have any right that we don't already have. I even have the right to make a citizen's arrest. If we can't go into private property to take something and say, this person is doing this, because that is stealing, than the police doesn't either - for instance, until they can prove to a judge that there is ample evidence something will be found there. Therefore, my government doesn't have the right to tell me to go murder someone who is just as equally unwilling to put themselves and others in danger by going to war - but feels compelled to by the state. The Geneva convention (yes, a broken record here) says the state doesn't have the right to force me to do anything that offends my conscience - that is why people who said - well, Hitler made me do it, are still being convicted of war crimes, because they did have a right to saw no and they didn't. So we only need to render onto the government what it has a right to ask of us for, defined by the constitutions of our nations. Some people might not like this, but I think it is the best kind of government possible, because anything else is harmful to humanity. Edited January 11, 2011 by MarkKurallSchuenemann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AudreyGrace Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 [quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1294711409' post='2198807'] Actually, Jesus said only to give what is rightfully theirs, If my government drafted me, I would immediately, upon entering training camp, go up to my drill instructor and say that the Geneva Convention gives me the right to not to obey any command that offends my conscience. It offends my conscience to learn how to murder people who are just as against going to war as I am, and it also offends my conscience to be put into a battle situation in which I will be required to fire upon people I know wouldn't want to go to war as much as I don't want to go to war. I respectfully ask to be put into the stockade of this base for the duration of the war! The government doesn't have a right to tell me to go out and murder people, because I don't have a right to murder people. It's is a government of the people for the people. If I can't go out five hours after the fact to kill someone that saw murder someone - because that is murder itself, than I my government can't rightfully say to me, go to war against this person, until they fire upon us. I'd go into jurisdictional law, but I don't want to complicate things that much in regards. There is too much of this 'peace-keeping' stuff the American's are doing right now, and I don't consider much of it legal, except Afghanistan - because Osama Bin Laden was there. But enough on that rant. [/quote] Well, I did say in my original post that there are some laws and government actions that we must fight, such as if they told us to kill someone. Maybe you didn't understand my original wording? Otherwise, the courts are rightfully theirs, because they are in part rightfully ours. Our government is unique in the way that we elect judges, senators, on and on and on, and are able to do Jury duty. In this way, it needs to be respected. I agree with what you said about the wars and America's "peace keeping". In all reality, our "peace keeping" has lead to Catholic persecution overseas. After the October 2010 massacre during a Catholic Mass in Baghdad, one witness yelled into the camera saying it was all America's fault, and in a sarcastic tone said "Thank you Bush! Thank you Obama!" Up until I saw that footage, I supported the war. Now, I kinda just want it to end... But now we're off topic lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkKurallSchuenemann Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 (edited) [quote name='AudreyGrace' timestamp='1294714601' post='2198822'] Well, I did say in my original post that there are some laws and government actions that we must fight, such as if they told us to kill someone. Maybe you didn't understand my original wording? Otherwise, the courts are rightfully theirs, because they are in part rightfully ours. Our government is unique in the way that we elect judges, senators, on and on and on, and are able to do Jury duty. In this way, it needs to be respected. I agree with what you said about the wars and America's "peace keeping". In all reality, our "peace keeping" has lead to Catholic persecution overseas. After the October 2010 massacre during a Catholic Mass in Baghdad, one witness yelled into the camera saying it was all America's fault, and in a sarcastic tone said "Thank you Bush! Thank you Obama!" Up until I saw that footage, I supported the war. Now, I kinda just want it to end... But now we're off topic lol. [/quote] Well that war was illegal to begin with. As I said, the government doesn't have a right that I don't - so if I couldn't go out and invade someone's home because I suspected them of wanting to do me harm and kill them - because that is murder - than our government's don't have that right either. A great movie to watch is Green Zone. There wasn't even weapons of mass destruction, if there was, it would be kinda silly they haven't found them by now! One soldier who was looking for them was so pissed off, he and a journalist wrote that movie and presented that to the people! The CIA person who kept them on wild goose chases says he didn't care that he lied to the American public and it doesn't matter anyways because they won the war and got their way. Now with that illustrious root, what kind of tree can you expect to happen in Iraq? With that being said, both Christianity and Libertarianism say the same thing about OJ, men's courts have ruled, it is out of our hands as a people. Going out to Murder OJ Simpson for possibly murdering others is wrong. Edited January 11, 2011 by MarkKurallSchuenemann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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