A Love Relationship With God?

[JTheresa]

[quote name='srmarymichael' date='20 July 2010 - 08:49 PM' timestamp='1279673355' post='2145744']
I'm having a hard time putting this into words. Instead of saying that if a person does not have a love relationship with God, they may not be able to follow the call to a vocation.... I think what I'm trying to say is this (different topic but related): If a person is not open to the possibility to Religious Life as their calling, can they really be open to God in having a holy marriage or being a holy single person?

I'm thinking of this for many reasons, but on the Theology of the Body for Teens, Brian Butler, referring to being open to a Religious Vocation, says something to this effect. I've been pondering it, especially since so many people I meet are so afraid that they might be "called".... In a way, we're all "called". Called to be holy. Called to be love in this world. Called to show people what God looks like.

Hmm....

I think it's connected to the love relationship with God too -- it's as if the fear is there, I'm guessing, partly because they don't know and haven't experienced that awesome love, unconditional, beautiful, love from God.
[/quote]

You have a good point. God wants to have a deep love relationship with everyone, regardless of what He calls them to do. I think that they can be open to God in any way in any calling, and He will receive them into His love, but I think that in order to really embrace the love that God gives one should be open to whatever calling He has for them, which is firstly the call of our Baptism to holiness. I know of a couple women who are married but still have a deep love relationship with God, and therefore a really good relationship with their husbands and children. It seems that since God is Love itself, in order to know how to love, you should know how to receive love from God. You can't give what you don't have. All the saints, religious, married and single, knew how to love in the ways they did because they learned it either directly from their relationship with God or from other relationships. But to the extent that made them saints: I would say that they learned their love from Love Himself. Anyone can be open to a love relationship with God, it just seems like those discerning a religious vocation are more open because they are open to the idea of God as their spouse.

[Sarah147]

To continue what I posted...

Though, I was told that if someone is called to the religious life, and they don't accept it, it [i]can[/i] be a mortal sin... hindrance to Holiness indeed. So again, [i]I think[/i] it really depends on what's going on within them, how much they know and how faithful and open they are to what they do know is God's Will in their life. I'm sure there may be non-Catholic Saints, who in their religion didn't know or didn't accept religious life with their faith, and if were converted to Catholic may have found a calling...

Edited July 21, 2010 by JoyfulLife

[TeresaBenedicta]

[quote name='JoyfulLife' date='20 July 2010 - 11:06 PM' timestamp='1279677968' post='2145782']
To continue what I posted...

Though, I was told that if someone is called to the religious life, and they don't accept it, it [i]can[/i] be a mortal sin... hindrance to Holiness indeed. So again, [i]I think[/i] it really depends on what's going on within them, how much they know and how faithful and open they are to what they do know is God's Will in their life. I'm sure there may be non-Catholic Saints, who in their religion didn't know or didn't accept religious life with their faith, and if were converted to Catholic may have found a calling...
[/quote]

I'd be curious from what source you heard this... I'd be very hard pressed to say that the rejection of a vocation (religious or not) can ever be a mortal sin. A religious vocation is first and foremost an [i]invitation[/i] to a higher state of life. Rejecting it may certainly hinder or make more difficult the path of holiness, but it is not paramount to rejection of God altogether. Choosing a real good can never be a mortal sin. To reject a religious vocation by choosing marriage is simply a matter of choosing a lesser good (should one recognize a call to religious life).

The only way I can see the rejection of a religious vocation as being a mortal sin is if it is coupled with a complete rejection of God altogether. But then the sin is not really in rejecting the religious vocation but in rejecting God.

[Sarah147]

One of the spiritual directors I talked to in the past told me that. Again, they said the word [i]can[/i]. I even questioned after they said it, and I'm still unsure. I'd ask other directors to be sure. It stills seems like some kind of sin to me, I'm just unsure in myself of the severity.

Someone on a forum asked this question and here is what a priest said:

"Hi,

You are assuming that you really did have a call in the first place. We do not know that. You never proceded enough to learn if you really had a call or not. The desire is only the first sign of a vocation. Only when the religious institute receives one into final vows can one know for sure.

But even if you did in fact have a vocation and turned away, all you need to do is ask His forgiveness. His love is far greater than our sins. Heaven is peopled with individuals who turned their backs on God and then repented. (Saint Paul was actually guilty for the stoning of St. Stephen. You haven’t killed anyone.) So long as we sincerely ask forgiveness, we will always be forgiven. Cheer up. He’s not finished with you either.

Fr. Vincent Serpa, O.P.
"

[url="http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=248979"]http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=248979[/url]


He doesn't say the severity, but implies it is a sin.

Edited July 21, 2010 by JoyfulLife

[OnlySunshine]

[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' date='20 July 2010 - 10:21 PM' timestamp='1279678880' post='2145786']
I'd be curious from what source you heard this... I'd be very hard pressed to say that the rejection of a vocation (religious or not) can ever be a mortal sin. A religious vocation is first and foremost an [i]invitation[/i] to a higher state of life. Rejecting it may certainly hinder or make more difficult the path of holiness, but it is not paramount to rejection of God altogether. Choosing a real good can never be a mortal sin. To reject a religious vocation by choosing marriage is simply a matter of choosing a lesser good (should one recognize a call to religious life).

The only way I can see the rejection of a religious vocation as being a mortal sin is if it is coupled with a complete rejection of God altogether. But then the sin is not really in rejecting the religious vocation but in rejecting God.
[/quote]

I agree with this. St. Alphonsus Liguori stated:

“Not to follow our vocation, when we feel called to the religious state, is not a mortal sin; the Counsel of Christ, from their nature , do not oblige under this penalty. However, in regard to the dangers to which our salvation is exposed, in choosing a state of life against the Divine Will, such conduct is rarely free from sin, much more so when a person is persuaded that in the world he places himself in danger of losing his soul by refusing to follow his vocation.”

Of course, by this statement, it would appear that rejecting a vocation would be an occasion of sin, which we are called to stay away from. But I believe that God, in His mercy, does not command us to accept His choice for us. It is simply an invitation to a higher calling in this life.

To read more on this subject:

http://www.catholicapologetics.info/catholicteaching/vocations/Vocare.htm

Scroll down to number 9.

Edited July 21, 2010 by MaterMisericordiae

[Sarah147]

Thank you for clearing up that matter! Great information on that site, too.

[OnlySunshine]

[quote name='JoyfulLife' date='20 July 2010 - 10:59 PM' timestamp='1279681156' post='2145794']
Thank you for clearing up that matter! Great information on that site, too.
[/quote]

It's what I do. I love to research stuff that I'm interested in.

[cmaD2006]

[quote name='srmarymichael' date='20 July 2010 - 09:49 PM' timestamp='1279673355' post='2145744']
I'm having a hard time putting this into words. Instead of saying that if a person does not have a love relationship with God, they may not be able to follow the call to a vocation.... I think what I'm trying to say is this (different topic but related): If a person is not open to the possibility to Religious Life as their calling, can they really be open to God in having a holy marriage or being a holy single person?

I'm thinking of this for many reasons, but on the Theology of the Body for Teens, Brian Butler, referring to being open to a Religious Vocation, says something to this effect. I've been pondering it, especially since so many people I meet are so afraid that they might be "called".... In a way, we're all "called". Called to be holy. Called to be love in this world. Called to show people what God looks like.

Hmm....

I think it's connected to the love relationship with God too -- it's as if the fear is there, I'm guessing, partly because they don't know and haven't experienced that awesome love, unconditional, beautiful, love from God.
[/quote]

I may not have expressed myself in the right way ... but I kind of understood that this was part of your question . imho -- without the love relationship I honestly think that any vocation is hindered. You can't open yourself fully to another person without this love relationship with God.

Now ... does this mean that God won't lead the person into one vocation vs. another in spite of the lack of the love relationship? I would think not and that He would still put longings in the person's heart towards one vocation. imho -- it comes into fuller fruition according to how the love relationship develops between God and the person.

Blessings,

[Sarah147]

"without the love relationship I honestly think that any vocation is hindered. You can't open yourself fully to another person without this love relationship with God."

Oiy. You put it so simply and to the point. Not sure where I was going, heh. Maybe I'm too tired to be thinking, heh.

[srmarymichael]

[b]This is from a friend of mine -- I think this is an important insight and experience (she gave me permission to post it here):[/b]


"Everything (for me) started when I accepted who I was. Before: I never thought I was pretty enough, smart enough, capable enough, the list could go on. I constantly viewed myself as not worthy for society. I hated who I was at the time. I felt like I always had to do what other people wanted me to do, to "fit in".

I didn't like who I was, who God created me to be. So so soooo many girls, teens, women feel that way. Most do, unfortunately. It's the way society is. Once I abandoned who I was, visited a convent, realized what I was doing was harmful to myself, realized that I was hating God for hating myself, my journey started there. I didn't love myself at the time. I wasn't comfortable being myself because of what people thought of me. Loving other people is crucial and the center of how we should live our lives. BUT loving others is just as important as loving myself. God created me the way He did. If I reject myself, I reject God. If I don't love God's creation, including myself, I don't know what Love is because God is Love.

I couldn't understand God's Love until I accepted myself. By accepting myself, I opened the door. Now I didn't truly understand God's Intimate relationship until this summer, but like I said in a previous e-mail, this whole experience started with loving myself. Then it branched off from there.

I went back and copied what I wrote before:

"Love is the foundation of life and it starts with everyone around us. I worked my way up from loving myself, to loving others, to loving creation, then to Loving and knowing God, and finally with all of those factors supporting me, I found prayer. Prayer is helping me maintain that Intimate Relationship that I just worked for."

I struggled with understanding God's love in my life, but I didn't love myself. Visiting [the convent] was a huge step and turnaround in my life and He just kept working on me from there. It really wasn't until I gave up makeup/clothes/etc. when I finally didn't care about what other people thought of me. Also what I posted on facebook was always so intimidating, sometimes it still is, but I just do it anyways to help me not care about what people think."

- from a 20 year-old college student

Edited July 21, 2010 by srmarymichael

[TeresaBenedicta]

[quote name='srmarymichael' date='21 July 2010 - 10:51 AM' timestamp='1279720304' post='2145871']
[b]This is from a friend of mine -- I think this is an important insight and experience (she gave me permission to post it here):[/b]


"Everything (for me) started when I accepted who I was. Before: I never thought I was pretty enough, smart enough, capable enough, the list could go on. I constantly viewed myself as not worthy for society. I hated who I was at the time. I felt like I always had to do what other people wanted me to do, to "fit in".

I didn't like who I was, who God created me to be. So so soooo many girls, teens, women feel that way. Most do, unfortunately. It's the way society is. Once I abandoned who I was, visited a convent, realized what I was doing was harmful to myself, realized that I was hating God for hating myself, my journey started there. I didn't love myself at the time. I wasn't comfortable being myself because of what people thought of me. Loving other people is crucial and the center of how we should live our lives. BUT loving others is just as important as loving myself. God created me the way He did. If I reject myself, I reject God. If I don't love God's creation, including myself, I don't know what Love is because God is Love.

I couldn't understand God's Love until I accepted myself. By accepting myself, I opened the door. Now I didn't truly understand God's Intimate relationship until this summer, but like I said in a previous e-mail, this whole experience started with loving myself. Then it branched off from there.

I went back and copied what I wrote before:

"Love is the foundation of life and it starts with everyone around us. I worked my way up from loving myself, to loving others, to loving creation, then to Loving and knowing God, and finally with all of those factors supporting me, I found prayer. Prayer is helping me maintain that Intimate Relationship that I just worked for."

I struggled with understanding God's love in my life, but I didn't love myself. Visiting [the convent] was a huge step and turnaround in my life and He just kept working on me from there. It really wasn't until I gave up makeup/clothes/etc. when I finally didn't care about what other people thought of me. Also what I posted on facebook was always so intimidating, sometimes it still is, but I just do it anyways to help me not care about what people think."

- from a 20 year-old college student
[/quote]

Thanks for this. Very insightful.

For myself, I think, the process was opposite. Somehow, in my despair and self-hatred, I found God (or, should I say, God found me). He captured my heart and infused a unquenchable desire for Himself in my soul. So I sought Him out, through prayer, through Mass, anything, trying to find Him. And every time I got close, it seemed as though He'd go further, so I'd have to go further. But my love of God at this time was very impure, very selfish. I sought Him because I wanted to possess Him. I thought little of God's love for me. I naively didn't consider that my desire for God had been, in fact, [i]placed by God[/i] into my soul.

Then, I don't know exactly when, but I do know it's been in the past year, I realized it all. All of the sudden, after having taken little notice of my surroundings on this great chase for God, I found myself with Him, realizing [i]His[/i] great love for me. The terrifying nature of this realization made me want to turn and run back home. But I was lost in the woods and I had no idea which way was where I'd come from. So it was left to me to decide-- do I enter deeper into this love-relationship with my God or do I turn around and try to find my way back to my old life (if I could ever even find it)? This is a decision that I have to make each and every day now.

But it's only here that I've finally come to love [i]myself[/i]. When God first captured my heart and sent me on this crazy chase, I had no love for myself. During the chase I forgot all things except trying to find Him. And it's only been recently that I've realized... I [i]do[/i] love myself. At least more than I ever have before.

[TeresaBenedicta]

Edit: Double post! Oops!

Edited July 21, 2010 by TeresaBenedicta

[srmarymichael]

[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' date='21 July 2010 - 01:06 PM' timestamp='1279732015' post='2145938']
Thanks for this. Very insightful.

For myself, I think, the process was opposite. Somehow, in my despair and self-hatred, I found God (or, should I say, God found me). He captured my heart and infused a unquenchable desire for Himself in my soul. So I sought Him out, through prayer, through Mass, anything, trying to find Him. And every time I got close, it seemed as though He'd go further, so I'd have to go further. But my love of God at this time was very impure, very selfish. I sought Him because I wanted to possess Him. I thought little of God's love for me. I naively didn't consider that my desire for God had been, in fact, [i]placed by God[/i] into my soul.

Then, I don't know exactly when, but I do know it's been in the past year, I realized it all. All of the sudden, after having taken little notice of my surroundings on this great chase for God, I found myself with Him, realizing [i]His[/i] great love for me. The terrifying nature of this realization made me want to turn and run back home. But I was lost in the woods and I had no idea which way was where I'd come from. So it was left to me to decide-- do I enter deeper into this love-relationship with my God or do I turn around and try to find my way back to my old life (if I could ever even find it)? This is a decision that I have to make each and every day now.

But it's only here that I've finally come to love [i]myself[/i]. When God first captured my heart and sent me on this crazy chase, I had no love for myself. During the chase I forgot all things except trying to find Him. And it's only been recently that I've realized... I [i]do[/i] love myself. At least more than I ever have before.
[/quote]

Isn't cool how God works with us individually? He knows exactly what we need!

Thanks to all who posted their thoughts here. It to me is a deep topic to ponder....

I know that many people grow up with not good examples of someone who loves them. I realize this hinders their ability to open up. One thing we're learning more about is healing. Check out this website: [url="http://www.tobhealing.com"]TOB Healing.com[/url]

[srmarymichael]

[b]Here's part 2 of the same 20 year-old (see post above):[/b]

Let me also clarify on some things too..

Even though I've come this far, things on that end aren't rainbows and butterflies. lol.. I have definitely come to love who God created me to be but it's a constant, daily struggle. There are so many people who judge me in different ways, tell me what I should/shouldn't do, etc. I can only make it through hoping in God's Love and knowing that He is the only one that sustains me and is constant. I don't go through a single day without thinking about what I say or do and how people perceive me. For example, every status I write and every single picture I post on facebook, I always sit there for a few minutes talking myself out of it before I hit Enter. Every single one.. because I'm afraid of that one person who will judge me wrongly. In today's society, I can't do anything without people judging me for almost everything I say or do. I know that because I was right there with them at one point. That's why loving myself was and still is sometimes one of the biggest battles I face. I love how God created me and I have built from that foundation, but that doesn't mean it still doesn't affect me on a daily basis. I have to just have full faith and trust that I'm doing the right thing. I don't care about what people think of me, but Satan likes to put that doubt in my mind for a few seconds each day. That's why I'm so persistent on facebook about what I say and post because that's almost my way of defeating Satan and the doubt he places on my mind. Satan is always there ready to make me feel weak but as soon as it happens, I put full trust in God and through His love, it's not an issue anymore. I know God is the only one who is allowed to judge me.

So even though I say I'm okay with who I am and my journey definitely started with accepting myself, that doesn't mean I'm not tested on it anymore. It happens nearly every day but that's how I remain so constant with God because He is the only one who sustains me and let's me know that it's going to be alright.

I can't really describe it. It's not that I care about what people think about me or I'm worried because I couldn't care less, it's just the matter of being okay with myself, and there is a lot of doubt, but it only lasts for a few seconds or minutes. I know it sounds like I'm probably contradicting myself... it's hard to describe. All I know is that since I've been able to accept and love myself, I can truly rely on His Love for me. It's like the series of doubts I have in my faith ever so often. They may come but they leave pretty fast because I know what's true and what's not.

I hope you can understand all that....

[vee]

[quote name='MaterMisericordiae' date='19 July 2010 - 08:09 PM' timestamp='1279588199' post='2145193']
I believe that it was difficult for me because I'm a cradle Catholic and I didn't know Jesus intimately growing up. I just thought of Him as God, not as Divine Love who is both my Creator and Spouse of my soul. I never truly understood that the Eucharist was more than a symbol until I experienced a reversion a few years ago. Since then, I've been seeking to know God on a more intimate level. I know that it was hard to wrap my head around the idea that God would want ME, a terrible sinner, for His bride. When I started discerning, I knew that I loved God and I wanted to serve Him, but it took me a while to understand the [i]bride of Christ[/i] theology.

[/quote]

I could have written that almost word for word!