A Love Relationship With God?

[srmarymichael]

Dear Phatmass Phriends,

I have been working as a Vocation Director and in various ministries for many years. One of my heartbreaks is that so many vocation discerners and others seem to struggle with the fact that God loves them intimately! It's like they're hungering for love and can't find it in God.

This is a big discussion I'm having with a friend of mine now. Can a person really be open to a vocation if they do not know God's infinite love for them? Can they be open to having a holy marriage or being happy in any state if they do not first have this love relationship with God and be open to whatever it is that He calls us to? trusting in that love?

It's hard for me to find the right words for this. I encourage all of you in the Vocation Station to "Seek and you will find. Knock and the door will be opened to you."

I realize that many of you already have this relationship. Thank God for it and ask Him to draw you (and me) in deeper every day.

"God IS LOVE, and he who abides in love, abides in God and God in him". Woohoo! God is love!

[OnlySunshine]

I believe that it was difficult for me because I'm a cradle Catholic and I didn't know Jesus intimately growing up. I just thought of Him as God, not as Divine Love who is both my Creator and Spouse of my soul. I never truly understood that the Eucharist was more than a symbol until I experienced a reversion a few years ago. Since then, I've been seeking to know God on a more intimate level. I know that it was hard to wrap my head around the idea that God would want ME, a terrible sinner, for His bride. When I started discerning, I knew that I loved God and I wanted to serve Him, but it took me a while to understand the [i]bride of Christ[/i] theology.

I have been discerning since my reversion (off and on, because of some hiccups along the way), but I know, truly, that I am called to religious life and I have a deep longing in my soul to try it out. Even on days when I am experiencing great doubts, I worry that if I don't at least try it, I will always be wondering "What if...?"

"The soul cannot live without love. She always wants to love something because love is the stuff she is made of, and through love I created her."--Our Lord to St. Catherine of Siena

Edited July 20, 2010 by MaterMisericordiae

[Sarah147]

To know God's love, you need to have had some experience of love, whether it be from parents, siblings, aunts, grandmas, friends, boyfriend, etc. If there wasn't any or much, it's rather hard. I know from experience, it's been gradual for me. It has helped immensly in having loving friends these recent few years. I have heard of stories of people having their first experience of strong love from charismatic movements, prayer group, etc.

If there were wounds of rejection or no love, it takes a lot of time to accept and believe in love, in God's love, in His Word. I think this is a big issue for most people. I think people have to look within and realize this, and begin to read His Word, meditate on it, contemplate, believe it, accept it, internalize it, live it. And I'm sure forgiveness and spiritual healing, and possibly psychological healing is needed.

Also, the love that we really hunger for, in my case, I didn't know where I was desiring it from... I didn't know if I needed better parents, a wonderful friend, a boyfriend... I looked to secular ideas in songs and movies... I just never learned about having a relationship with Jesus like a human husband, that intimate, passionate, sacrifising, lover of my soul love. The ecstacy, the joy, the contemplation, the rapture, the head over heels, fallen in love, love. Deeply, truly, in love. Chaste, pure, spiritual. This is what my soul longed for, but I thought that was only with a human spouse. I hadn't heard about this from anyone or read about it from Saints. Now I know and want it and am gradually growing in it. Thank God, it all began when I got serious about chastity and realized courting is what's proper if marriage is your calling (not secular dating), and that I wasn't even ready for that (later on discerning marriage wasn't my calling). I realized I couldn't be giving my heart to guys and to Jesus fully, I felt a strain, and so I began to give all my heart just to Jesus and I've never been happier. (And I don't even mean dating, but crushes, imagining marrying a certain man, talking to men, getting gaga over love songs, etc.)

It really helps to hear about peoples deep loving relationship and personal experiences with God, especially from the Saints. The desires for this will begin in the persons heart if it wasn't already. There faith will build and it helps for them to know what to pray for, about God working on their heart, growing in a deep personal relationship, and reaching out to others lovingly as you grow will stretch you. A spiritual director actually told me that I should pray to "become more conscious of God's direct love for me (not through people), and to respond to His graces." I'm suddenly reminded of St. Teresa, in the miniseries movie on her life, where she said that it varies at different times how you will desire to pray to God: as friend, or Father, or Spouse, etc.

Here's a great article I came across:
How to Grow in the Love of God by Fr. Hardon
http://www.therealpresence.org/chapel/grow.htm


I'm interested to hear what others have to say. I've been posting about it, as others have fallen in love with God, and it's small and gradual for me.

Edited July 20, 2010 by JoyfulLife

[cmaD2006]

Hi Sr. Mary Michael:

Having just been on retreat, where the focus was God's love I can honestly say, from my own experience that not knowing God's infinite love does *hinder* happiness in any state.

Does that mean that God in His mercy won't call a woman or a man to religious life (or in the case of a man to priesthood) in spite of not knowing His love? No .. He still calls. I just think it would be that much harder to respond, or in fact it is that much harder to respond to any state outside of God's love.

From my recent experience on retreat -- I knew God's love from a more superficial point of view for years (decades). I knew I was loved by God, but because of my personal history I always thought "I'm not good enough" or "He really doesn't want me" etc. Yet -- I felt called to religious life.

I pursued religious life in two communities -- and it didn't work out (in one case, it really wasn't the right place for me; in the second -- too complicated to explain, but suffice to say that there were issues on both sides). By the end of the 2nd try -- I was completely torn apart. I now know that, although it wasn't His plan for things to have happened the way it did in the 2nd community, He allowed it for my good ... for that lead me to go on retreat with a heart that longed for Him and for healing.

I now know that He loves me inmensely ... and right now it doesn't matter anymore whether or not I end up in religious life. I'm His -- and that's what counts the most. And I'm willing to bet that whatever He has planned, it will be easier to follow Him because of the love that I now know in a new and personal way.

I can imagine that for vocation directors it must be quite difficult running into women and men who do doubt in God's love ... and only He can change that. In the meanwhile, we can intercede for those still searching for God.

Hope this helps,

[Sarah147]

If we are going to get anywhere or advance, I believe we really need to work on humility and abandonment.


"Humility is a means to love. Love cannot happen without humility and self-forgetfulness."
— Peter Kreeft, [url="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1586170171/ref%3Dase_cowpi-20/104-7909982-7166354"][i]The God Who Loves You[/i][/url]

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='JoyfulLife' date='19 July 2010 - 08:10 PM' timestamp='1279588200' post='2145194']
To know God's love, you need to have had some experience of love, whether it be from parents, siblings, aunts, grandmas, friends, boyfriend, etc. If there wasn't any or much, it's rather hard.

I'm interested to hear what others have to say. I've been posting about it, as others have fallen in love with God, and it's small and gradual for me.
[/quote]

The idea of falling in love with God is a very new idea to me, and I still don't fully understand it yet, much less have experience of it. I think your first sentence is a very good explanation of why. I think I know how to love, but not much experience in having it returned.
Strangely, my cats have taught me more about unconditional love than any human.

[TeresaBenedicta]

Love is scary. Being loved is terrifying.

I think that others have made an important observation: namely, that without having experienced loving relationships here, it is very difficult to be open to God's love. Sadly many people never experience love. But, accepting God's love can be extremely difficult even for those who have grown up in very loving households.

Allowing yourself to be loved means opening yourself up to another person. It means becoming absolutely vulnerable to them. That type of vulnerability is extremely terrifying. Extremely terrifying.

Can someone be open to a religious vocation without allowing themselves to be open to God's love? I think so, but they wouldn't be understanding the true nature of a religious vocation. One can seek to serve God, to give Him everything and love Him above all things and thereby desire to enter the religious life to do so. An upright intention, to be sure. But one that does not necessarily recognize [i]God's[/i] love for the person. One that does not understand that it is God who loves first.

I've never been in religious life before, so I can't say from experience on that level, but I don't think anyone could last in the vocation without eventually facing the reality of God's head-over-heels love for them. I don't think anyone who is serious about growing in the spiritual life in general can go very long without eventually facing that reality. And when one does... There's two possible responses: a) accepting that love or b) rejecting it.

The same happens with human love. When people become scared because of their vulnerability, they attempt to purposely hurt the person they love and who loves them. Because they're scared to be loved, they don't feel as though they are worthy of being loved. I think sin is the same thing, when it comes down to it. Sin is a rejection of God's love and deep down it's because we're trying to escape that love.

But back to religious vocations and acknowledging that love relationship with God... I keep the following excerpt from Bl. Elizabeth of the Trinity in my breviary:

"[i]Let[/i] yourself be loved more than these! That is, without fearing that any obstacle will be a hindrance to it, for I am free to pour out My love on whom I wish! [i]'Let[/i] yourself be loved more than these' is your vocation. It is in being faithful it that you will make Me happy, for you will magnify the power of My love. This love can rebuild what you have destroyed. [i]Let[/i] yourself be loved more than these."

Without God's love for us, without that [i]intimate[/i] and [i]personal[/i] love for us, we can in no way do His work... religious vocations are first and foremost about [i]being[/i], that is, [i]being[/i] in this special relationship. Then doing, all for the sake of the Beloved.

[TeresaBenedicta]

Two other quotes:

“To love at all is to be vulnerable. Love anything, and your heart will certainly be wrung and possibly broken. If you want to make sure of keeping it intact, you must give your heart to no one, not even to an animal. Wrap it carefully ‘round with hobbies and luxuries; avoid all entanglements; lock it up safe in a casket or coffin of your selfishness. But in that casket—safe, dark, motionless—it will change. It will not become broken; it will become unbreakable, impenetrable, irredeemable.” -C.S. Lewis

"Nothing is more practical than finding God, that is, than falling in love in a quite absolute, final way.

What you are in love with, what seizes your imagination, will affect everything. It will decide what will get you out of bed in the morning, what you will do with your evenings, how you will spend your weekends, what you read, who you know, what breaks your heart, and what amazes you with joy and gratitude.

Fall in love, stay in love and it will decide everything." -Pedro Arrupe, S.J.

[Sarah147]

[img]http://charlesmoore.name/jesus%20child%20mod.jpg[/img]

I quite enjoy your quotes! Thank you for sharing.

I used to be especially scared of love. I think it was a misunderstanding of love. I'm learning that Divine Love is perfect, gentle, kind, patient, humble, merciful, forgiving... Perfect love casts out fear. That's when it has really helped to have devotion to the Child Jesus and Mary.

Edited July 20, 2010 by JoyfulLife

[ksterling]

Dear Sister:

MY family went to church on Sundays and that was about the extent of my Catholic upbringing. I attended CCD where I heard all the usual "god loves you" blah blah blah. It never resonated and as soon as I was confirmed, I stopped going. I didn't really begin to explore my faith and what it means until my senior year in college and I didn't have a really full and nourishing prayer life until I found a spiritual director who knew how to teach me. I think that the intimate relationship you speak of may come naturally to a few but the rest of us must learn it - I learned HOW to meditate - to clear my mind to think about what God means in my life. I read several books (eg thomas Merton) that helped me find a path to God. My Sd helped me understand the personal power of prayer like I was learning accounting - one step at a time - each lesson building on the one before. The time I now spent in prayer and contemplation is as necessary to my day as breakfast (not to be flippant but to make a point). I have said here before that I joke with my SD that I should pay him like a shrink because the time I spend in meditation I feel like I'm getting to know myself better and creating what you refer to as an "intimate relationship with Jesus." The times I spend in prayer punctuate my day and ground me. I don't know how I did without it all those years. I really think most young people hear the word "prayer" and think "boring" - they just don't know how. Whether I enter religious life or not, prayer will continue to be the most important part of my life.

[Sarah147]

This spiritual director discusses this some:
[media][url="http://www.catholic.org/video/?v=2742"]http://www.catholic.org/video/?v=2742[/url][/media]

[laetitia crucis]

[quote name='srmarymichael' date='19 July 2010 - 09:00 PM' timestamp='1279587633' post='2145188']
Can a person really be open to a vocation if they do not know God's infinite love for them? Can they be open to having a holy marriage or being happy in any state if they do not first have this love relationship with God and be open to whatever it is that He calls us to? trusting in that love?

[/quote]

Hi Sister!

I've been pondering on this question and must I think others have answered so well here! I'm not sure exactly what to add to this, but wanted to share some of my little ramblings...

I do think that a person can be [i]open[/i] to a vocation (whether Religious, Married, Consecrated Lay, etc.) even if they do not know God's [i]infinite[/i] love for them. If a person is open to receiving God's grace (whether sanctifying, sacramental, or actual), God will use this to work in them.

I also think that said persons can be happy in their vocational state as long as they are in a state of grace; [b]however[/b], I do not believe that they will be [i]ultimately[/i] happy, if that makes sense. It seems to me that if one is open to grace and living in a state of grace, yet does [i]not[/i] "first have that love relationship with God and [is] open to whatever it is that He calls us to"... then I think it's kind of like "building one's house on a foundation of sand", so to say. And in that "love relationship" and "being open to whatever it is that He calls us to", I don't mean all the various movements of the passions and the consolations and desolations that one may attribute with "being in love", but instead... a true continuous act of the will and assent of the intellect in the obedience of faith in that relationship, for the highest Good (the object of the Will) and the highest Truth (the object of the Intellect). With this, I think one will have a firmer foundation for their "house".

Love is most certainly not fleeting, nor is Truth; He is God -- Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

[quote name='Pope Benedict XVI"]Dear friends, truth is not an imposition. Nor is it simply a set of rules. It is a discovery of the One who never fails us; the One whom we can always trust.[b] In seeking truth we come to live by belief because ultimately truth is a person: Jesus Christ.[/b] That is why authentic freedom is not an opting out. It is an opting in; nothing less than letting go of self and allowing oneself to be drawn into Christ’s very being for others.[/quote]

[Sarah147]

[img]http://www.sacredheartsisters.org/img/sacredheart.jpg[/img]


I'm not sure where the story is, but I had read a vocation story online of a young woman that felt God was calling her to the religious life. She reasoned that since she had never dated, that she didn't know if she was called to marriage, so she tried going out with a guy. I remember in the story, she said that she went to Mass with this man, and as she was walking back to the pew where he was, I think after receiving communion, she felt Jesus tell her that He didn't like her giving her attention to this man. So she realized her foolishness and what God wanted, and she ended that and got serious about her religious vocation.

Wow, the Lord sure is serious about His love for us, and wants ALL of your heart!

Edited July 21, 2010 by JoyfulLife

[srmarymichael]

I'm having a hard time putting this into words. Instead of saying that if a person does not have a love relationship with God, they may not be able to follow the call to a vocation.... I think what I'm trying to say is this (different topic but related): If a person is not open to the possibility to Religious Life as their calling, can they really be open to God in having a holy marriage or being a holy single person?

I'm thinking of this for many reasons, but on the Theology of the Body for Teens, Brian Butler, referring to being open to a Religious Vocation, says something to this effect. I've been pondering it, especially since so many people I meet are so afraid that they might be "called".... In a way, we're all "called". Called to be holy. Called to be love in this world. Called to show people what God looks like.

Hmm....

I think it's connected to the love relationship with God too -- it's as if the fear is there, I'm guessing, partly because they don't know and haven't experienced that awesome love, unconditional, beautiful, love from God.

[Sarah147]

[quote name='srmarymichael' date='20 July 2010 - 09:49 PM' timestamp='1279673355' post='2145744']
If a person is not open to the possibility to Religious Life as their calling, can they really be open to God in having a holy marriage or being a holy single person?

[/quote]


I agree that we are all called to be Holy and that fear comes from a misunderstanding of love.

They mention something on what I quoted from you, in the EWTN program, Completely Christ's. The sister said something about we can be happy doing other things, but not as happy or fullfilled as being a sister if that's what you were created from of all time to become.

I guess the issue would be, why are they not open to the religious life... certain reasons I would suppose could carry over as an obstacle to holiness in any state of life -- if there is a resistance to His Will. I guess it would be a question of what is going on within them. Maybe no obvious resistance -- I'm sure there could be some that never knew about the religious life as a possibility, or were too distracted to ever hear the call, and found a partner early on, got married, and are living as faithfully as they know how. There may have been some awful misunderstandings and views of what the religious life is all about, and they just sought earnestly in good heart for where they believed they could faithfully serve God, most likely marriage or single life. Can we say that a vocation to Holiness, and a vocation to a state in life are separate, and don't hinder the other?

Edited July 21, 2010 by JoyfulLife