krissylou Posted July 16, 2010 Share Posted July 16, 2010 So, some months back a friend is about to head out onto the mission field. I drag her off to the Trappistine monastery for a few days before she goes. As we were heading off, we nose around the gift shop. I select a book by Basil Pennington on incorporating monastic practices into everyday life. I note to the nun that so many of the books they had available were by or about Carmelites. I want to get a TRAPPIST book, because after all I'm getting it here! She highly approved of this. But also said that they were hearing a lot of interest from people in the area about their bookstore being a resource for *really really good* spiritual writings. We agreed that the nice Trappists could share with the nice Carmelites. But I still wanted to get a TRAPPIST book from the Trappists. Maybe I'll go to the Carmelite monastery and get a Carmelite book. So this week I finally start reading bits of my Trappist book. At one point, Fr. Basil refers to Bernard of Clairvaux's treatise on love. According to Bernard, there are four stages of love. (And it's important to remember that all of these are good as far as they go!) 1. Love of self. Not in an arrogant or self-centered way, necessarily, but a natural, normal love of self. 2. Love of God for the sake of the self. I love God because God saves me from hell, or because God is the best foundation for a rich, full human life. 3. Love of God for God's sake. I love God because God is so lovable, so worthy of love. The love of a lover. (Most of us are somewhere in between 2 and 3.) And then the highest ... 4. Love of self for God's sake. To grow in God means to see with God's eyes, to love with God's heart. And God loves God's creation, loves creation enough to go to the Cross. That includes me. If I love what God loves, I must love myself, so much more richly and fully than in the first stage. Huh ... wow. I wasn't expecting that twist at the end there. Did not see that one coming. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif[/img] (Well, geez, what could you expect from our ridiculous self-centered modern age ... oh, what's that you say? Bernard was writing this in the twelfth century? Errr ... never mind then.) I nearly started crying, right there at the Wagamama's. Where it is somewhat less expected than vee8's Carmelite cloister. I blame you all for this. But especially vee8. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/love.gif[/img] (By the way, we try so hard to drag you to the Dominicans. Ever considered the Cistercians/Trappists?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeresaBenedicta Posted July 16, 2010 Share Posted July 16, 2010 St. Bernard. I'm [i]very[/i] familiar with [i]De diligendo Dei[/i]. I did my senior honors thesis on St. Bernard's contemplative theology of love. It's very beautiful... Let me see if I can find something that's appropriate from my thesis to share here. A lot of my work was on the philosophical principles that influenced St. Bernard's thought and the provenance of those ideas. Let me go take a look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeresaBenedicta Posted July 16, 2010 Share Posted July 16, 2010 Here is an excerpt of my thesis that deals with the progression of love as given by St. Bernard. In my thesis I'm arguing a few different points that you will see alluded to in this particular passage. First, I am arguing that St. Bernard's progression of love must first be understood by his theological anthropology ([i]very[/i] briefly: man is made in the image and likeness of God. Image = freedom of choice, Likeness = freedom from sin and freedom from misery. After the Fall man retained the image of God but lost the likeness of God. The progression of love is ordered toward restoring the likeness of God [freedom from sin here on earth and freedom from misery in Heaven]). Second, I am arguing that St. Bernard was influenced by various philosophical sources-- Cicero, Aristotle, and a few others. There's another argument going on in my thesis as a whole, but not really pertinent to this particular passage. [quote] We left our narrative with man lost in a ‘land of unlikeness,’ a regio dissimilitudinis. Estranged from his Creator, image intact but likeness lost in sin, man finds himself in total disarray. Made to love God above all things and find his fulfillment in Him, he instead loves himself first, for his own sake. What is first in right (that is, love of God) has been usurped by what is now first in fact (carnal or self-love). The proper ordering of love has been inverted and man is in need of restoration—he needs something to help him put this love back into proper order. The task seems daunting and near impossible to achieve. How can one rise from carnal love to a pure, disinterested love of God? St. Bernard’s answer is very simple: the grace of Jesus Christ, who is Charity. According to St. Bernard there is a four-step progression of love which, through the grace of God, will restore this divine likeness. He begins with carnal love where “man loves himself above all for his own sake.” The First Degree of Love, found so evidently in nature (for who hates his own flesh?), flows by virtue of God’s Divine Providence into the Second Degree, where man loves God for his own benefit. St. Bernard writes, “The creator wills that man be disciplined by tribulations so that when man fails and God comes to his help, man, saved by God, will render God the honor due him.” Faced with difficulties, man frequently turns to God and is frequently helped by God’s grace. And this frequent recourse to God eventually leads to the Third Degree of Love: Man loves God for God’s sake. Of this state, St. Bernard writes, “Man’s frequent needs oblige him to invoke God more often and approach him more frequently. This intimacy moves man to taste and discover how sweet the Lord is. Tasting God’s sweetness entices us more to pure love than does the urgency of our own needs.” The fourth and final degree of love is where man loves himself only for the sake of God—and this stage is brought to completion at the Resurrection of the Body. Let us return momentarily to On Grace and Free Choice, where St. Bernard offers keen insight about this saving power of grace and its relation to the will. He writes, “God is the author of salvation, the free willing faculty merely capable of receiving it… Consequently, free choice is said to co-operate with operating grace in its act of consent.” What is the importance of returning once again to the faculty of free choice? It is because freedom is a necessary condition for man to love God—as we said before, freedom is the mark of the image of God. Thomas Merton, in his tribute to St. Bernard of Claivaux, accurately grasps the implications of this point. He writes, “In order to love God with disinterested charity he must first be free. His whole ascent to divine union is a progress in liberty. Our basic freedom, freedom of choice, is only the beginning of the ascent.” The freedom of choice is the beginning of the ascent to union with God, to a pure and disinterested love of God. So it is that St. Bernard teaches that it is this faculty through which grace raises man and sets his loves in order. But it is important to note that of these two, grace and free choice, one is an operative principle and the other is the object of the work being done, merely consenting to the power of grace. Here we see another important philosophical principle at work, this time stemming from the Aristotelian tradition: namely, the relationship between act and potency. Refreshing our memory of Aristotelian Metaphysic’s, we might recall that Aristotle distinguishes between two senses of potentiality, naming them passive potency and active potency. First, Aristotle defines potency as “a principle of change in another thing or in the thing itself qua other.” Thus, active potency resides in the agent (or that which acts) and is the potency to be the principle of change. On the other hand, passive potency resides in the thing being acted upon and is defined as “a principle of change by being acted upon by another or by itself qua other.” It is this sense of potency with which we are most concerned. Aristotle also defines actuality: “actuality is the existence of a thing, not in the way in which we say that something potentially exists.” We recall that in order for a thing to change from potentiality to actuality it must be acted upon by something else. This change is primarily concerned with the efficient and final causes. This philosophical principle as a whole appears to be underlying St. Bernard’s theology of grace, particularly in relation to the progression of loves by which man ascends to a pure and disinterested love of God. As we noted earlier, man’s ascent begins with free choice. But it is grace, yes, even charity as a gift from God himself that sets free choice free from its own captivity. Listen to the words of the Mellifluous Doctor of the Church: “All the same, let nobody think I hold charity to be a quality or a kind of accident in God. Otherwise, I would be saying, and be it far from me, that there is something in God which is not God. Charity is the divine substance. I am saying nothing new or unusual, just what St. John says: “God is love.” Therefore it is rightly said, charity is God, and the gift of God. Thus charity gives charity; substantial charity produces the quality of charity. Where it signifies the giver, it takes the name of substance; where it means the gift, it is called a quality.” What is this quality of charity? It is the grace by which God elevates and liberates man, as we have before stated. It is a free gift from God with which free choice cooperates so as to do good actions and to be saved. This is what St. Bernard means when he writes, “Charity converts souls because it makes them act willingly.” St. John says, “God is love” and St. Bernard accurately establishes Love as the divine substance. Now, substance is actuality. Free choice, on the other hand, has passive potency for being acted upon by this divine substance. When Charity gives charity, it moves free choice in such a way that, in giving its consent, it is raised and freed to not only to choose, but to choose the good. Thus St. Bernard writes, “Free choice, accordingly, constitutes us willers; grace, willers of the good. Because of our willing faculty, we are able to will; but because of grace, to will the good.” This is an important point. Without grace man cannot will the good. Free choice enables us to will; grace elevates free choice so that we may will the good. Indeed, it is divine love, God himself, who in his gift of love moves man to love him. Just as St. Augustine says that grace precedes and makes possible human freedom, so also St. Bernard says that God’s love precedes and makes possible human love. Thus it is God’s grace, God’s love, which reduces human potency to divine act. We can see this principle present in St. Augustine, too, as emphasizes the action of grace in his Reconsiderations, saying, “Unless the will is liberated by grace from its bondage to sin… [and] unless the divine grace by which the will is freed preceded the act of the will, it would not be grace at all.” That is to say, it is grace which precedes and frees the will so that it might will the good. Grace acts upon the faculty of free choice, which receives this divine action and is itself moved to act. Invoking once more the explicitly Aristotelian categories of causality, St. Bernard writes, “God is the efficient and final cause of our love. He offers the opportunity, creates the affection, and consummates the desire.” Every step in man’s progression of love is inspired and moved by God’s grace. God’s action is always prior to man’s actions, and as we have seen, man cannot even begin to love God save for God’s grace freeing man’s free choice, reestablishing, little by little, the divine likeness. The primacy of God’s saving action is evident from the principle of the priority of actuality over potentiality, which Aristotle argues in the Metaphysics. [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vee Posted July 16, 2010 Share Posted July 16, 2010 (edited) [quote name='krissylou' date='16 July 2010 - 02:15 PM' timestamp='1279307735' post='2143548'] So, some months back a friend is about to head out onto the mission field. I drag her off to the Trappistine monastery for a few days before she goes. As we were heading off, we nose around the gift shop. I select a book by Basil Pennington on incorporating monastic practices into everyday life. I note to the nun that so many of the books they had available were by or about Carmelites. I want to get a TRAPPIST book, because after all I'm getting it here! She highly approved of this. But also said that they were hearing a lot of interest from people in the area about their bookstore being a resource for *really really good* spiritual writings. We agreed that the nice Trappists could share with the nice Carmelites. [/quote] The Carmelite saints are so annoying! I didnt know they had invaded the Trappistine bookstores too. I think the problem is when the store starts to carry a book by one of them, like that sneaky little Therese, then all the rest get in there too. Thats what they did with my bookshelf anyway. [quote] But I still wanted to get a TRAPPIST book from the Trappists. Maybe I'll go to the Carmelite monastery and get a Carmelite book. [/quote] Id laugh if the Carmelites had a bunch of Trappist books. [quote]So this week I finally start reading bits of my Trappist book. At one point, Fr. Basil refers to Bernard of Clairvaux's treatise on love. According to Bernard, there are four stages of love. (And it's important to remember that all of these are good as far as they go!) 1. Love of self. Not in an arrogant or self-centered way, necessarily, but a natural, normal love of self. 2. Love of God for the sake of the self. I love God because God saves me from hell, or because God is the best foundation for a rich, full human life. 3. Love of God for God's sake. I love God because God is so lovable, so worthy of love. The love of a lover. (Most of us are somewhere in between 2 and 3.) And then the highest ... 4. Love of self for God's sake. To grow in God means to see with God's eyes, to love with God's heart. And God loves God's creation, loves creation enough to go to the Cross. That includes me. If I love what God loves, I must love myself, so much more richly and fully than in the first stage. Huh ... wow. I wasn't expecting that twist at the end there. Did not see that one coming. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif[/img] [/quote] [quote] I nearly started crying, right there at the Wagamama's. Where it is somewhat less expected than vee8's Carmelite cloister. I blame you all for this. But especially vee8. [/quote] Sorry. [quote] (By the way, we try so hard to drag you to the Dominicans. Ever considered the Cistercians/Trappists?) [/quote] Hmm interesting I should have a little chat with God about that. Maybe the saints I currently have stalking me will lay off or be replaced by Trappist Cistercian ones:mellow: Edited July 16, 2010 by vee8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissylou Posted July 17, 2010 Author Share Posted July 17, 2010 [quote name='vee8' date='16 July 2010 - 07:13 PM' timestamp='1279322009' post='2143674'] Id laugh if the Carmelites had a bunch of Trappist books. [/quote] At least in my neck of the woods, the Carmelites ONLY stock Carmelite-related books. Snots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilde Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 lawl I can't remember seeing any Carmelite books in the Trappist shop, only rule of st.benedict and stuff like that. I do have some carmelite books in my shelf though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vee Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 [quote name='krissylou' date='17 July 2010 - 09:37 AM' timestamp='1279377476' post='2143888'] At least in my neck of the woods, the Carmelites ONLY stock Carmelite-related books. Snots. [/quote] LOL. I would like to investigate more Carmels just to see their book selections The one I went to didn't have very many books at all, I was kinda disappointed by that actually Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vee Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Hilde' date='17 July 2010 - 09:48 AM' timestamp='1279378080' post='2143893'] lawl I can't remember seeing any Carmelite books in the Trappist shop, only rule of st.benedict and stuff like that. I do have some carmelite books in my shelf though. [/quote] I visited a Trappist monastery as a child and all I remember was that their gift shop had coagulated milk You have some Carmelite books ha! See, once you have one more follow! The moral of the story? Never buy Carmelite books Edited July 17, 2010 by vee8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilde Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 Well I have seveal about a certain someone, and a book by another one who bears the same name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vee Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 [quote name='Hilde' date='17 July 2010 - 10:36 AM' timestamp='1279380999' post='2143905'] Well I have seveal about a certain someone, and a book by another one who bears the same name. [/quote] hmmm I see.... [img]http://socialmediarage.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/kill-it-with-fire.jpeg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgnatiusofLoyola Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 (edited) [quote name='vee8' date='16 July 2010 - 06:13 PM' timestamp='1279322009' post='2143674'] Hmm interesting I should have a little chat with God about that. Maybe the saints I currently have stalking me will lay off or be replaced by Trappist Cistercian ones:mellow: [/quote] Sorry Vee8, I'm not sure the Trappist/Cistercian charism will fit well in PPC. For example, the Trappist nuns in the U.S. that I have read about are silent all day--no recreation. We're already planning to offer a vegetarian option at meals, and will have a SMALL statue of that French lady in the garden. (I am overruling the request for a larger-than-life statue, because she was know for her small works, and she is known as "the little flower.") I have a feeling that our Mary chapel will have a distinctly Carmelite leaning. But, if you want to be a Trappist, you may have to be a hermit Trappist, because although our community can adapt to many different charisms living together, the Trappists are just TOO austere and too quiet (you never thought you'd hear me say that anything could be TOO quiet, did you?). LOL So, stay Carmelite until you come to your senses and become Dominican. You know that, as long as I am around, the Little Flower will have her due place, but will not take over in the face of the likes of St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Catherine of Siena, just to name two. "Balance" is one important goal of our community. BTW--After reading Nunsense's account of the celebration of the Carmelite feast day. I propose that we celebrate the major feast days of all Orders represented. Heck, if we add the minor feast days, and Sisters' personal feast days, we could feast practically every day! However, since balance is one goal, we'll limit feasting to no more than every other day! LOL Edited July 17, 2010 by IgnatiusofLoyola Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vee Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 [quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='17 July 2010 - 01:06 PM' timestamp='1279390018' post='2143969'] Sorry Vee8, I'm not sure the Trappist/Cistercian charism will fit well in PPC. For example, the Trappist nuns in the U.S. that I have read about are silent all day--no recreation. [/quote] Yikes no recreation?! I need my two hours of laughter a day. Out of curiosity I googled Trappist nuns and discovered theres a monastery in Canada. I had no idea! http://trappistine.org/english/index.html [quote] We're already planning to offer a vegetarian option at meals, and will have a SMALL statue of that French lady in the garden. (I am overruling the request for a larger-than-life statue, because she was know for her small works, and she is known as "the little flower.") I have a feeling that our Mary chapel will have a distinctly Carmelite leaning. But, if you want to be a Trappist, you may have to be a hermit Trappist, because although our community can adapt to many different charisms living together, the Trappists are just TOO austere and too quiet (you never thought you'd hear me say that anything could be TOO quiet, did you?). LOL[/quote] that French lady. A small statue is fine with me because no matter the size Ill still be giving her these looks [quote]So, stay Carmelite until you come to your senses and become Dominican. You know that, as long as I am around, the Little Flower will have her due place, but will not take over in the face of the likes of St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Catherine of Siena, just to name two. "Balance" is one important goal of our community. [/quote] Haha ok Ill try. I agree balancing the saints is important so its not an all Aquinas library (no books just paintings statues etc) or an all Therese chapel and so on. [quote] BTW--After reading Nunsense's account of the celebration of the Carmelite feast day. I propose that we celebrate the major feast days of all Orders represented. Heck, if we add the minor feast days, and Sisters' personal feast days, we could feast practically every day! However, since balance is one goal, we'll limit feasting to no more than every other day! LOL[/quote] Sounds like heaven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgnatiusofLoyola Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 When I was mentioning saints that will be included on our roster so the French lady wouldn't take over, I forgot, there was this dude named Ignatius that I've heard is really cool. I'm not sure why he called himself Ignatius of Loyola. I think it's because he looked around and saw all kinds of excellent schools and colleges with the name Loyola, so he decided he'd like that name for himself. Although the Jesuits have yet to come to their senses and add a female Order, we won't hold that against Ignatius because he wrote some good stuff. And, HIS feast day will be an awesome celebration, because it will also be my birthday (and Harry Potter's). Triple celebration!! Personally, I am going to campaign that we have a Jesuit priest. However, that's probably because I only know one priest, and that is the Jesuit priest who performed my wedding. Besides being very intelligent and wise, he is also a professor of clinical psychology, and with all the crazies around here (a group that definitely includes me), a clinical psychologist who is also a priest might be a useful thing for PPC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissylou Posted July 18, 2010 Author Share Posted July 18, 2010 There's no designated recreation time, true, but I keep hearing that the "silent all day" thing is a myth. My impression is that they are now significantly less austere than the more traditional Carmelites or Poor Clares, but I could be wrong on that ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgnatiusofLoyola Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 [quote name='krissylou' date='17 July 2010 - 08:35 PM' timestamp='1279416931' post='2144139'] There's no designated recreation time, true, but I keep hearing that the "silent all day" thing is a myth. My impression is that they are now significantly less austere than the more traditional Carmelites or Poor Clares, but I could be wrong on that ... [/quote] Here is the Web site of the community of Trappistines that I understand keeps silence virtually all the time, except when speaking is necessary. I think that there are different types of "austerity." My understanding is that, for example, this Community stresses manual labor. Other Orders might be austere in their rule, in the type of conditions they live under, etc. Note: You'll see in the Web site pictures of women in secular clothes. These are their work clothes. Like the Trappists, they wear jeans, etc for manual labor, but wear habits for worship and when they are not doing manual labor. I don't know if they never utter a word all day--certainly they speak in worship. I'm sure, that, as with any Order, different communities within the Order have different practices. [url="http://www.olamonastery.org/"]http://www.olamonastery.org/[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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