Tlm

[Resurrexi]

I think there should be more TLMs either on Sunday afternoon or (even better) Sunday evening. It's very difficult to get up for early morning Mass when one has been partying all Saturday night.

[jeffpugh]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='21 July 2010 - 02:36 PM' timestamp='1279737373' post='2146009']
I think there should be more TLMs either on Sunday afternoon or (even better) Sunday evening. It's very difficult to get up for early morning Mass when one has been partying all Saturday night.
[/quote]
Penance, my friend.

[Nihil Obstat]

PARTY HARD PRAY HARDER!!!

[jeffpugh]

Werd.

[sixpence]

hmmm.. I've never been, wouldn't mind going.... I didn't know there were any parishes who did TLR regularly... I found this site which lists some across the US/Canada


http://www.ecclesiadei.org/masses.cfm

[Wikitiki]

I would totally go to the TLM if I could, but the nearest parish that even does them occasionally is least an hour and a half to two hours away from my house, and I have a hard enough time getting my mom to drive me to the NO parish on Sundays, that's twenty minutes away (and don't get me started on the horror that is trying to get her or my dad to take me to confession anywhere on any day. )

...I'm probably going to be the happiest kid in the world when I can drive (and get over the hyperventilation and nerves and such).

[Nihil Obstat]

[url="http://irenaeusgsaintonge.blogspot.com/2011/03/prayers-at-foot-of-altar.html"]Prayers at the Foot of the Altar[/url]


Notes from a non-theologian layman:

I managed to attend a High Mass again yesterday for Quinquagesima Sunday. I get more and more out of it each time I go, and this time was notable because the only time I got lost was the time that I noticed my little booklet was missing the page for the Consecration. Obviously that threw me off a bit, but it wasn't really my fault, so I count that as not getting lost at all.

Something that struck me especially this Sunday was the prayers at the foot of the Altar.
I've been looking around on the internet for the text of the prayers (I don't own a missal), and I found a great little resource at Fisheaters.com.

Here's the full text from that section:


[size="1"]Prayers at the Foot of the Altar
Júdica Me and the Confiteor
The priest returns to the foot of the Altar.
Stand
The priest genuflects at the foot of the Altar and recites the "Júdica Me," a part of Psalm 42 written by an Israelite priest 800 years before our Lord was born and which speaks of his yearning to worship on the holy hill of Jerusalem. The Júdica Me is omitted from Passion Sunday to Holy Saturday inclusive and in Masses for the Dead.

Then he will say the Confiteor, confessing and begging God's forgiveness for his sins. The server, speaking for the people -- the unordained royal priesthood -- then says the Confiteor on our behalf as we mentally accuse ourselves of our sins and ask the Saints to pray for us. The priest then absolves us (this does not obviate private Confession).
Kneel
In nómine Patris, et Fílii, + et Spíritus Sancti. Amen.
In the Name of the Father, + and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen.
Introíbo ad altáre Dei. S.Ad Deum qui lætíficat juventútem meam.
I will go in unto the Altar of God. S.To God, Who giveth joy to my youth.
Júdica me (Psalm 42):
The priest joins hands and says:
Júdica me, Deus, et discérne causam meam de gente non sancta: ab hómine iníquo, et dolóso érue me.
Judge me, O God, and distinguish my cause from the nation that is not holy: deliver me from the unjust and deceitful man.
S.Quia tu es, Deus, fortitúdo mea: quare me repulísti, et quare tristis incédo, dum afflígit me inimícus?
S.For Thou, O God, art my strength: why hast Thou cast me off? and why do I go sorrowful whilst the enemy afflictech me?
P.Emítte lucem tuam, et veritátem tuam: ipsa me deduxérunt, et aduxérunt in montem sanctum tuum, et in tabernácula tua.
P.Send forth Thy light and Thy truth: they have led me and brought me unto Thy holy hill, and into Thy tabernacles.
S.Et introíbo ad altáre Dei: ad Deum qui lætíficat juventútem meam.
S.And I will go in unto the Altar of God: unto God, Who giveth joy to my youth.
P.Confitébor tibi in cíthara, Deus, Deus meus: quare tristis es, ánima mea, et quare contúrbas me?
P.I will praise Thee upon the harp, O God, my God: why art thou sad, O my soul? and why dost thou disquiet me?
S.Spera in Deo, quóniam adhuc confitébor illi: salutáre vultus mei, et Deus meus.
S.Hope thou in God, for I will yet praise Him: Who is the salvation of my countenance, and my God.
P.Glória Patri, et Fílio, et Spirítui Sancto.
P.Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost.
S.Sicut erat in princípio et nunc, et semper, et in sæcula sæculórum. Amen.
S.As it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
P.Introíbo ad altáre Dei.
P.I will go in unto the Altar of God.
S.Ad Deum qui lætíficat juventútem meam.
S.Unto God, Who giveth joy to my youth.
Adjutórium nostrum + in nómine Dómini.
Our help + is in the Name of the Lord.
S.Qui fecit cælum et terram.
S.Who hath made heaven and earth.
Confiteor by the Priest first, and then the People:
The priest enters the Throne Room of God. He humbles himself and makes a public confession, bowing down to say the Confiteor for his own sins:
Confíteor Deo omnipoténti, beátæ Maríæ semper Vírgini, beáto Michaéli Archángelo, beáto Joanni Baptístæ, sanctis Apóstolis Petro et Paulo, ómnibus Sanctis, et vobis, fratres: quia peccávi nimis cogitatióne, verbo et ópere: He strikes his breast three times mea culpa, mea culpa, mea máxima culpa. Ideo precor beátam Maríam semper Vírginem, beátum Michaélem Archángelum, beátum Joánnem Baptístam, sanctos Apóstolos Petrum et Paulum, omnes Sanctos, et vos, fratres, oráre pro me ad Dóminum Deum nostrum.
I confess to Almighty God, to blessed Mary ever Virgin, to blessed Michael the Archangel, to blessed John the Baptist, to the holy Apostles Peter and Paul, to all the Saints, and to you, brethren, that I have sinned exceedingly, in thought, word and deed: He strikes his breast three times through my fault, through my fault, through my most grievous fault. Therefore I beseech blessed Mary ever Virgin, blessed Michael the Archangel, blessed John the Baptist, the holy Apostles Peter and Paul, all the Saints, and you, brethren, to pray to the Lord our God for me.
S.Misereátur tui omnípotens Deus, et dimíssis peccátis tuis, perdúcat te ad vitam ætérnam.
S.May Almighty God have mercy upon you, forgive you your sins, and bring you to life everlasting. .
P.Amen. P.Amen
We enter the Throne Room of God and, standing before Him, accuse ourselves of our sins. The server says the Confiteor on our behalf:
Confíteor Deo omnipoténti, beátæ Maríæ semper Vírgini, beáto Michaéli Archángelo, beáto Joanni Baptístæ, sanctis Apóstolis Petro et Paulo, ómnibus Sanctis, et tibi, Pater: quia peccávi nimis cogitatióne, verbo et ópere: mea culpa [strike breast] , mea culpa [strike breast] , mea máxima culpa [strike breast]. Ideo precor beátam Maríam semper Vírginem, beátum Michaélem Archángelum, beátum Joánnem Baptístam, sanctos Apóstolos Petrum et Paulum, omnes Sanctos, et te, Pater, oráre pro me ad Dóminum Deum nostrum.
I confess to Almighty God, to blessed Mary ever Virgin, to blessed Michael the Archangel, to blessed John the Baptist, to the holy Apostles Peter and Paul, to all the Saints, and to you Father, that I have sinned exceedingly, in thought, word and deed: through my fault [strike breast], through my fault [strike breast], through my most grievous fault [strike breast]. Therefore I beseech blessed Mary ever Virgin, blessed Michael the Archangel, blessed John the Baptist, the holy Apostles Peter and Paul, all the Saints, and Thee Father, to pray to the Lord our God for me.
The priest joins hands and grants us absolution of our venial sins:
P.Misereátur vestri omnípotens Deus, et dimíssis peccátis vestris, perdúcat vos ad vitam ætérnam.
P.May Almighty God have mercy upon you, forgive you your sins and bring you to life everlasting.
S. Amen.
S. Amen.
P.Indulgéntiam +, [cross yourself] absolutiónem, et remissiónem peccatórum nostrórum tríbuat nobis omnípotens et miséricors Dóminus.
P.May the Almighty and merciful God grant us pardon +,[cross yourself] absolution, and remission of our sins.
S.Amen. S.Amen.
Deus, tu convérsus vivificábis nos.
Thou wilt turn, O God, and bring us to life.
S.Et plebs tua lætábitur in te.
S.And Thy people shall rejoice in Thee.
P.Osténde nobis, Dómine, misericórdiam tuam.
P.Show us, O Lord, Thy mercy.
S.Et salutáre tuum da nobis. S.And grant us Thy salvation.
P.Dómine, exáudi oratiónem meam. P.O Lord, hear my prayer.
S.Et clamor meus ad te véniat.
S.And let my cry come unto Thee.
P.Dóminus vobíscum. P.The Lord be with you.
S.Et cum spíritu tuo. S.And with thy spirit.
P.Orémus. S.Amen.[/size]



The aspect that strikes me first of all is the solemnity and deliberateness of this entire section. Whereas in the Novus Ordo, there is no ceremony to approaching the Altar itself, here the priest is physically separated from it until he has first begged to be made worthy to approach. For me, this really underscores the fact that this is a holy place, and that we are all sinners.
The Altar was in this case raised three or four steps above the rest of the area in which the priest was standing (forgive me, I don't know the proper name for it [probably the sanctuary?]). I don't know if this is true of all High Altars, but it has been the case of every one I can currently recall. Since the priest has not yet ascended to the Altar, he is still at (almost) the same level as his parishioners, which says to me that he is praying with us (maybe more accurately for us) to be made worthy, and that as he prays to be made worthy of his role, he truly prays to represent his entire congregation.
The entire scene makes me consider standing before God Himself. It makes me think about being before such an amesome and incomprehensible Presence. I think the Mass itself considers the same thing when the priest says "I will go in unto the Altar of God: unto God, Who giveth joy to my youth."
The last thing that strikes me is the action of actually ascending the Altar after the prayers. Without having studied in depth the theology of the Mass, it seems to me that this action represents the priest taking on the role of alter Christus, another Christ. It may not be that exact moment that this is considered to be the case, but it certainly means something significant that the priest is going "in unto the Altar of God", physically rising above the congregation to where Christ is in the tabernacle, to the Altar where the Sacrifice of the Mass will again be offered in worship of God.

All in all, the prayers at the foot of the Altar is another aspect of the EF that I believe emphasizes reverence and fear of God far better than is done today in the typical Novus Ordo. We will all be judged before the Altar of God.
"Judge me, O God, and distinguish my cause from the nation that is not holy: deliver me from the unjust and deceitful man."

Edited March 7, 2011 by Nihil Obstat

[Galloglasses' Alt]

I have never really gone to a Tridentine Mass before, or any mass in Latin, the vast majority of my Novus Ordo Masses have however, not been abusive as far as I can tell.

[Chamomile]

[quote name='Galloglasses' Alt' timestamp='1299714290' post='2219656']
I have never really gone to a Tridentine Mass before, or any mass in Latin, the vast majority of my Novus Ordo Masses have however, not been abusive as far as I can tell.
[/quote]


I'd encourage you to go if you get a chance, at least because it's part of our Sacred Tradition. There was an article about a Catholic elementary school that recently had a Traditional Latin Mass, and I think it will benefit the children a lot to have experienced that. Looking at it from a purely historical viewpoint, it helps me feel more connected to the Church's past and see where certain things came from, why they exist, and perhaps why they were changed in the Novus Ordo.

Praise God that you haven't been to many irreverent Masses! You are very blessed in that respect.

I'm not directing this at you, Galloglasses, or anyone else who's posted in this thread (I haven't even read through it all, to be honest), but I found this list of rules on Catholic Answers on how to discuss the Traditional Latin Mass and the Novus Ordo: [url="http://forums.catholic.com/showpost.php?p=7032571&postcount=24"]Forum Rules for Catholic Answers[/url]. I think it establishes a basic framework for how to talk to others about the different forms, when those discussions can sometimes become unintentionally uncharitable. Just thought that might be helpful if people start posting more in this thread...

[Chamomile]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1299530357' post='2218892']
...

The aspect that strikes me first of all is the solemnity and deliberateness of this entire section. Whereas in the Novus Ordo, there is no ceremony to approaching the Altar itself, here the priest is physically separated from it until he has first begged to be made worthy to approach. For me, this really underscores the fact that this is a holy place, and that we are all sinners.
The Altar was in this case raised three or four steps above the rest of the area in which the priest was standing (forgive me, I don't know the proper name for it [probably the sanctuary?]). I don't know if this is true of all High Altars, but it has been the case of every one I can currently recall. Since the priest has not yet ascended to the Altar, he is still at (almost) the same level as his parishioners, which says to me that he is praying with us (maybe more accurately for us) to be made worthy, and that as he prays to be made worthy of his role, he truly prays to represent his entire congregation.
The entire scene makes me consider standing before God Himself. It makes me think about being before such an amesome and incomprehensible Presence. I think the Mass itself considers the same thing when the priest says "I will go in unto the Altar of God: unto God, Who giveth joy to my youth."
The last thing that strikes me is the action of actually ascending the Altar after the prayers. Without having studied in depth the theology of the Mass, it seems to me that this action represents the priest taking on the role of alter Christus, another Christ. It may not be that exact moment that this is considered to be the case, but it certainly means something significant that the priest is going "in unto the Altar of God", physically rising above the congregation to where Christ is in the tabernacle, to the Altar where the Sacrifice of the Mass will again be offered in worship of God.

All in all, the prayers at the foot of the Altar is another aspect of the EF that I believe emphasizes reverence and fear of God far better than is done today in the typical Novus Ordo. We will all be judged before the Altar of God.
"Judge me, O God, and distinguish my cause from the nation that is not holy: deliver me from the unjust and deceitful man."
[/quote]



And from the Mass for Ash Wednesday, we have something that sounded like a prophecy of this:


[quote]
Between the porch and the altar, the priests, the Lord's ministers, shall weep and shall say: Spare, O Lord, spare Thy people: and close not the mouths of those who sing to Thee, O Lord

~ Joel 2:17[/quote]



According to my Bible's notes, this means the "priest stood in the open space between the outdoor altar of holocausts and the temple building, facing the latter in order thereby to look toward God present in the holy of holies." That seems like it's an action similar to the prayers at the foot of the altar - ourselves, the congregation, being altars for our daily sacrifices and of course, the Tabernacle being the Holy of Holies, the High Altar being the place of the one complete sacrifice.

If that's totally off and theologically incorrect, please forgive me...I know very little about the Israelites' temple worship. But it just struck me when I read that today after having read this post.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Chamomile' timestamp='1299719370' post='2219680']

According to my Bible's notes, this means the "priest stood in the open space between the outdoor altar of holocausts and the temple building, facing the latter in order thereby to look toward God present in the holy of holies." That seems like it's an action similar to the prayers at the foot of the altar - ourselves, the congregation, being altars for our daily sacrifices and of course, the Tabernacle being the Holy of Holies, the High Altar being the place of the one complete sacrifice.

If that's totally off and theologically incorrect, please forgive me...I know very little about the Israelites' temple worship. But it just struck me when I read that today after having read this post.
[/quote]
I'm sure you're on to something here. I do know that we can identify the Altar and tabernacle as fulfillments of the Holy of Holies. This is part of the reason I believe that the tabernacle should never be separated from the Altar.

[HollyWilliams]

I do not attend a Traditional Latin Mass but I would like to do so in the future. I currently attend an ordinary form Mass. There is not a Traditional Latin Mass within decent driving distance of my area. I could go to one which is approximately 55 miles away but I am afraid that I would use too much gas if I did go there.

[dUSt]

[quote]Remember the rules for discussing the mass. You may not pit one form of the mass against the other. They are both valid, licit and holy.
If your post suggests that the one is not licit or holy, it will be deleted. If you post such a thing again, you will be suspended.
You may discuss your preference and your reasons.
You may explain that the behavior of individuals concerns you or bothers you. That's legitimate.
You may speak of how beautiful you find one form or the other. That too is legitimate.
You should always share your spiritual growth and experience with others. That's an act of charity and it is edifying.
You may describe something unpleasant that you found in one form or the other. That happens.
You may not contradict what is Church teaching. Both forms are holy, licit, and valid. If you do not like that or do not believe it, think it but don't post it.
Thank You
Thomas Casey
Moderator[/quote]
Wow. The Catholic Answers forum guidelines on this are eerily similar to ours. I never knew this.

[Chamomile]

[quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1299862971' post='2220111']
Wow. The Catholic Answers forum guidelines on this are eerily similar to ours. I never knew this.
[/quote]



I thought they were more detailed - a bit more than ours (unless I'm looking at the wrong Phorum Guidelines?).