Tlm

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='dominicansoul' date='17 July 2010 - 06:12 PM' timestamp='1279411933' post='2144097']
i find God in both the EF and NO Masses.[/quote]
I am sure He is present in both forms of the Roman Rite, but as a Byzantine Catholic I find Him most clearly when I am worshipping according to my own [i]sui juris[/i] Church's tradition, which I believe is quite normal . . . I mean why else would I have chosen to become a Byzantine Catholic.

[IcePrincessKRS]

[quote name='dominicansoul' date='17 July 2010 - 08:43 PM' timestamp='1279410191' post='2144077']
it was a nice quiet week on phatmass...
[/quote]

Seriously.

[Apotheoun]

I did not know that the point of Phatmass' existence was to be quiet.

[IcePrincessKRS]

I didn't know that the point of this thread was to quibble about eye rolling smilies and the word pity.

[Apotheoun]

And you have a right to your opinion on the nature of the thread, although I do not share it. Regardless, if the point of Phatmass' existence is quiet perhaps everyone should be suspended and we should close the forum now. A discussion forum without discussion is pointless.

[IcePrincessKRS]

How do you know you don't share my opinion on the nature of the thread? Unless you really do think it's about eye rolling and pity... I kind of thought it was was about the EF, you know, like the title says. Which, to be on topic and for the record, I do not attend.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='17 July 2010 - 08:09 PM' timestamp='1279411753' post='2144095']
I am an Eastern Catholic, and so I do not normally attend Roman Catholic parishes, but I do find it sad that many Roman Catholics do not have any interest in experiencing all of the many different aspects of their own tradition, and by tradition I am speaking about things that are more than simply 40 years old.

A Roman Church that knows and affirms the whole of its liturgical, spiritual, and theological tradition, will be all the stronger as it moves forward in dialogue with the Eastern Orthodox Churches, and that will be good for everyone.
[/quote]

DING! DING! DING! We have a winner. THIS is the proper attitude to have.

Among some of us local Catholic riders in Chitown, one of our goals is to attend the various rites of the Catholic Church that are available in our locale so that we can familiarize ourselves with parts of the Church we may not be familiar with but nevertheless are there and are a rich part of our tradition. That includes the EF.

[IcePrincessKRS]

[quote name='Norseman82' date='17 July 2010 - 10:43 PM' timestamp='1279417421' post='2144144']
DING! DING! DING! We have a winner. THIS is the proper attitude to have.

Among some of us local Catholic riders in Chitown, one of our goals is to attend the various rites of the Catholic Church that are available in our locale so that we can familiarize ourselves with parts of the Church we may not be familiar with but nevertheless are there and are a rich part of our tradition. That includes the EF.
[/quote]

Yeah, I grew up in a small town and we still visited different parishes. Usually because something kept us from our "regular" Mass time, but for other reasons, too. I've never really been one to only attend one parish and never check out other parishes in my community. It's weird for me in the town we're in now because we only have 2 that we can attend easily. We just got a new pastor on post, I get to find out what he's like in the morning. Pray that he's GOOD! Our last pastor didn't like to follow the rubrics.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='IcePrincessKRS' date='17 July 2010 - 07:41 PM' timestamp='1279417265' post='2144143']
How do you know you don't share my opinion on the nature of the thread? Unless you really do think it's about eye rolling and pity... I kind of thought it was was about the EF, you know, like the title says. Which, to be on topic and for the record, I do not attend.
[/quote]
It is not about eyerolling smilies, but it is about defining what was meant by the use of the word pity. And I do think it is pitiable for a Catholic to feel uncomfortable at any liturgy approved within his own [i]sui juris[/i] Church. If you agree with that statement . . . then I stand corrected, and you and I are in agreement about the nature of this thread.

Edited July 18, 2010 by Apotheoun

[Chiquitunga]

I go as often as I can on Sundays and weekdays. Either way though, I'm just happy to receive Jesus in the Most Blessed Sacrament wherever I go. I do prefer the EF Form though as you can pray interiorly more easily throughout the Mass. And I love receiving Our Lord on my knees and everything.

On another note, I'm hijacking the thread here, but Norseman I tried to PM you asking about Confessions on Sundays at St. John Vianney (which has TLM on Sunday, so I'm on topic!), but your inbox is full. So I emailed you instead. Thanks!

And Margaret Mary, thanks for posting the article! Fr. Chad Ripperger is a great priest and totally in line with the Church

[IcePrincessKRS]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='17 July 2010 - 10:50 PM' timestamp='1279417820' post='2144147']
It is not about eyerolling smilies, but it is about defining what was meant by the use of the word pity. And I do think it is pitiable for a Catholic to feel uncomfortable at any liturgy approved within his own [i]sui juris[/i] Church. If you agree with that statement . . . then I stand corrected, and you and I are in agreement about the nature of this thread.
[/quote]

My "seriously" comment was more in regard to the eye rolling, less about "pity" (which is why I said eye rolling first). I also feel like "uncomfortable" might not be the best choice of words. I can't say for sure since I don't know exactly what they are feeling. My experience with the EF was not profound and I didn't feel drawn to it. I may be in a semantical mood right now, though, because while I think I understand the gist of your point, I don't feel like "pity" is an adequate word for how I feel about that, either. I think the only one who said he was uncomfortable with the idea of going to an EF was MIKolbe, and his discomfort wasn't with the Mass, it was with his approach to it. I think he is wary of his own motives, not of the Mass itself. That I do not pity.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='fides quarens intellectum' date='17 July 2010 - 05:20 PM' timestamp='1279408839' post='2144057']


Just goes to show you how people can come off a completely different way on the internet!

Nah, before you came back recently, my husband and I had actually made several posts on PM about honoring what has been set aside as the ordinary by those who have the authority to determine liturgical norms. He was raised going to EF Masses and still prefers that form, but, to him, it's more important to attend our home parish and follow the normative, making the best of various annoyances and such. I came into the Church via OF (and honestly may not be Catholic today had Mass been in a foreign tongue at that point), and only recently have I been to a few EF Masses. So far, that form has very little appeal, but my husband thinks I need to go to at least twenty of them before I can make a fair judgment. I understand that EF Masses can be really beautiful and spiritually moving for a lot of people, but I'm just not there. If our home parish offered Mass in the EF, we would probably go every once in a while because my husband does like that form A LOT, but neither of us are comfortable attending an EF-only parish. That's just us. The rest of his family and a lot of his friends are pretty much EF all the way, and that's cool too - that's how they are living out their Catholicism - all glory to God. Anyway, I will say, though, if Latin Masses were to become the ordinary form again, then of course I'd try to learn Latin quickly so that I could follow more faithfully what has been chosen as the normative. Kinda confusing, so I should stop now, but, no, i'm not an EF sorta girl.

edit: oh, philters... doesn't make sense when a sentence says i'd smell of elderberries it up in a heartbeat and learn Latin.
[/quote]
I think I got that impression because some part of your profile used to say something about being married or engaged to a rad trad. I don't think I realized you were a convert. Or if I did, it has disappeared in a haze of sleep deprivation.

There was a parish I attended somewhat regularly in Indianapolis that offered both EF and OF Masses. I went to a handful of EF Masses and found them quite beautiful, although I struggle to keep up sometimes because I don't know much in the way of Latin. I have gone to one EF Mass here, at a parish that did Mozart's Requiem for All Saints Day. It was extraordinarily beautiful.

I think EF masses can be beautiful, but the really deeply impacting spiritual experiences I have had have all been at OF masses. I think it is because I am not so conscious of the "differentness" of the Mass, and am able to be more sensitive to God's voice.

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='17 July 2010 - 06:09 PM' timestamp='1279411753' post='2144095']
I am an Eastern Catholic, and so I do not normally attend Roman Catholic parishes, but I do find it sad that many Roman Catholics do not have any interest in experiencing all of the many different aspects of their own tradition, and by tradition I am speaking about things that are more than simply 40 years old.

A Roman Church that knows and affirms the whole of its liturgical, spiritual, and theological tradition, will be all the stronger as it moves forward in dialogue with the Eastern Orthodox Churches, and that will be good for everyone.
[/quote]
I agree that we need to be more aware of the Church's history. I really would like to learn Latin, largely because eventually I'd like to be able to read Church documents in their original language. My time is somewhat limited at the moment, but it's on my to-do list (which may not get accomplished for many years). However, we're tentatively planning to homeschool, and I really like classical programs which include ecclesial Latin as a component ... so I may get to learn it along with my son (or a few steps ahead of him).

As far as the comfort level of attending an EF Mass ... I would describe it as a lack of familiarity. The words sound strange to my ears and in that sense it is "uncomfortable." Although I really don't like that word ... unfamiliar is better, but still not quite right. The thing is, at the same time it's unfamiliar, it's also very familiar because Jesus is there, and anywhere He is feels like home.

[IcePrincessKRS]

Thanks, Terra. Unfamiliar is a much better word. I was racking my brain and couldn't come up with something a little more adequate.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='IcePrincessKRS' date='17 July 2010 - 08:07 PM' timestamp='1279418875' post='2144158']
My "seriously" comment was more in regard to the eye rolling, less about "pity" (which is why I said eye rolling first). I also feel like "uncomfortable" might not be the best choice of words. I can't say for sure since I don't know exactly what they are feeling. My experience with the EF was not profound and I didn't feel drawn to it. I may be in a semantical mood right now, though, because while I think I understand the gist of your point, I don't feel like "pity" is an adequate word for how I feel about that, either. I think the only one who said he was uncomfortable with the idea of going to an EF was MIKolbe, and his discomfort wasn't with the Mass, it was with his approach to it. I think he is wary of his own motives, not of the Mass itself. That I do not pity.
[/quote]
Words are often inadequate to the task. Be that as it may, a Latin Catholic should want to experience the whole of his Church's tradition.

As an Eastern Christian I have never cut myself off from any aspect of the Byzantine liturgy, because to do so would impoverish me spiritually, and if done by enough Melkite Catholics it could even impoverish the whole Melkite Church.

[jeffpugh]