There Is Such A Thing As An Honest Lawyer

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='11 July 2010 - 11:29 PM' timestamp='1278908999' post='2141511']
One time I won a humility contest. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/mellow.gif[/img]
[/quote]

Only in Canada would humility be considered a virtue. In the U.S., even many very religious people have a very difficult time with humility. I have a sneaking suspicion (but no specific proof) that, no matter what some very religious people may say in public, they don't really see humility in everyday things as a virtue, but instead a sign of weakness.

How often do we see posts on Phatmass where someone says, "You're right. I messed up. I'm sorry."--and mean it? Or debate posts that say, "I know I don't know everything about this subject, so I could be wrong."? But, since I have no empirical data to support my gut feeling, I'm going to start paying more attention, and I hope to discover that my "gut feel" is wrong, at least on Phatmass. I do believe that in most places "in the world," genuine humility is usually considered weakness, at least in the U.S., and especially among men.

I didn't learn how to even be a little bit humble once in awhile, until God bashed me over the head so hard that I couldn't possibly miss the lesson he was trying to teach me. And, I'm ashamed at how long it took.

Edited July 12, 2010 by IgnatiusofLoyola

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='11 July 2010 - 11:59 PM' timestamp='1278910790' post='2141520']
Only in Canada would humility be considered a virtue. In the U.S., even many very religious people have a very difficult time with humility. I have a sneaking suspicion (but no specific proof) that, no matter what some very religious people may say in public, they don't really see humility in everyday things as a virtue, but instead a sign of weakness.

How often do we see posts on Phatmass where someone says, "You're right. I messed up. I'm sorry."--and mean it? Or debate posts that say, "I know I don't know everything about this subject, so I could be wrong."? But, since I have no empirical data to support my gut feeling, I'm going to start paying more attention, and I hope to discover that my "gut feel" is wrong, at least on Phatmass. I do believe that in most places "in the world," genuine humility is usually considered weakness, at least in the U.S., and especially among men.

I didn't learn how to even be a little bit humble once in awhile, until God bashed me over the head so hard that I couldn't possibly miss the lesson he was trying to teach me. And, I'm ashamed at how long it took.
[/quote]
" Every one suspects himself of at least one of the cardinal virtues..."

I think that's so true. Although to be honest with you, I do try to admit when I'm wrong. Sometimes, when I'm really emotionally invested in something, it's a lot harder and I fail fairly frequently, but I make a conscious effort.

[Ed Normile]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='11 July 2010 - 11:49 PM' timestamp='1278910147' post='2141516']
[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/mellow.gif[/img]


I'm so humble I'm not even saying anything about that right now.
[/quote]


This is why I love you Nihil, you are truly a great person.

ed

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Ed Normile' date='12 July 2010 - 12:15 AM' timestamp='1278911714' post='2141533']
This is why I love you Nihil, you are truly a great person.

ed
[/quote]
[img]http://forums.animeseed.com/gallery/images/9995/1_console.gif[/img]


[spoiler]You're pretty kewl too. [/spoiler]

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='12 July 2010 - 12:12 AM' timestamp='1278911561' post='2141528']
" Every one suspects himself of at least one of the cardinal virtues..."

[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/hehehe.gif[/img] I think that's so true. Although to be honest with you, I do try to admit when I'm wrong. Sometimes, when I'm really emotionally invested in something, it's a lot harder and I fail fairly frequently, but I make a conscious effort.
[/quote]

That's a great saying! I've never heard it before, but it's SO true.

And, I don't know anyone who finds it easy (or often, even possible) to be humble when they're emotionally invested in something.

Plus, humility is very counter-cultural in the corporate world, at least in the U.S., and true humility could genuinely hurt someone's career--until perhaps, they make it to the top. Maybe a truly humble person wouldn't care. I wouldn't know--I've never been that humble.

Edited July 12, 2010 by IgnatiusofLoyola

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='12 July 2010 - 12:22 AM' timestamp='1278912142' post='2141541']
That's a great saying! I've never heard it before, but it's SO true.

And, I don't know anyone who finds it easy (or often, even possible) to be humble when they're emotionally invested in something.

Plus, humility is very counter-cultural in the corporate world, at least in the U.S., and true humility could genuinely hurt someone's career--until perhaps, they make it to the top. Maybe a truly humble person wouldn't care. I wouldn't know--I've never been that humble.
[/quote]
It's a good quote from the Great Gatsby, which is a favourite of mine.

Counter cultural for sure. Career hurting........ maybe. I'm hesitating to agree. Maybe it's because I'm entertaining high hopes about my future career, but I also tend to believe those on the top who have told me that the most important thing in the corporate world is to be able to connect with people. Bosses, co workers, clients, whatever. I want to believe that this is the case, and that there isn't as much place for the cutthroat ones as we're sometimes led to believe.
[img]http://lupusranting.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/i_want_to_believe.jpg[/img]

[Vincent Vega]

Did you do the ctrl+F5 trick yet?

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='11 July 2010 - 11:20 PM' timestamp='1278912032' post='2141540']
[img]http://forums.animeseed.com/gallery/images/9995/1_console.gif[/img]
[/quote]

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' date='11 July 2010 - 11:58 PM' timestamp='1278910723' post='2141519']
Ok I normally don't give this secret out, BUT...
if you hit [color="#ff0000"][censored by I of IL][/color] , it will give me a new, random avatar.

Go ahead. Do it.
[/quote]

I have no idea who that is in your new Avatar, but I kind of like it. He looks like someone picky. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif[/img]

However, please go back to any Avatar you want--I don't really care that much. And, I believe strongly in the right of personal choice when it comes to Avatars. I just did that for the fun of it. And, it WAS fun! Thanks for letting me do it. I'd give you back your original Avatar, but I don't know how, and I'm not sure I would be allowed to anyway. I'm shocked that the system even let me change it.

But, I'd vote you leave it for at least a little while--or pick some other random Avatar if you don't like that one. People will REALLY be confused. Fun!!!

What if the power to change Avatars at will falls into the hands of an evil wizard? Civilization as we know it could be destroyed!

[Vincent Vega]

(I was messing with you, by the way. I had already changed it, but your browser does a thing called caching where it remembers certain details about a webpage that are static (i.e., the forum layout or avatars) so it doesn't have to load them from scratch every time, thus making it load faster. Sometimes if one of those things is changed, the browser won't recognise it right away and will display the out-of-date information. Ctrl+F5 just refreshes the cache, meaning that it reloads everything from scratch. SoCalGuy went away earlier today, but I thought I'd have a little fun with you I know who it is - he's someone I aspire to look like (yet not be like) when I get old (like, 5-10 years from now). There's currently a "Who is that guy in my avatar" guessing thread taking place in lameolando right now.)

Edited July 12, 2010 by USAirwaysIHS

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='12 July 2010 - 12:25 AM' timestamp='1278912334' post='2141543']
It's a good quote from the Great Gatsby, which is a favourite of mine. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif[/img]

Counter cultural for sure. Career hurting........ maybe. I'm hesitating to agree. Maybe it's because I'm entertaining high hopes about my future career, but I also tend to believe those on the top who have told me that the most important thing in the corporate world is to be able to connect with people. Bosses, co workers, clients, whatever. I want to believe that this is the case, and that there isn't as much place for the cutthroat ones as we're sometimes led to believe.

[/quote]

As it turned out, I wasn't really meant for the corporate world, so maybe I'm just bitter and cynical. However, as workplaces go, mine wasn't nearly as cutthroat as some I've heard about, so I don't know.

Too much arrogance can definitely hurt you--but sometimes it's seen as self-confidence, or sometimes there is a very thin line between self-confidence and arrogance. I rarely tried humility--that may have been part of my problem. Plus, despite some changes for the better, my experience is that women still are viewed differently than men in the corporate world, and too much humility (and too much arrogance) can cause problems--although there are some very successful female professionals who are very arrogant. It's an interesting issue.

I haven't totally lost my idealism--I still believe that it should be possible to find a healthy, fun, positive workplace where people are treated well. I just haven't found one yet (although I haven't actively looked lately, either).

But, as they say, a cynic is a disappointed idealist.

I hope you find the answer. I was never able to.

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' date='12 July 2010 - 12:39 AM' timestamp='1278913166' post='2141550']
(I was messing with you, by the way. I had already changed it, but your browser does a thing called caching where it remembers certain details about a webpage that are static (i.e., the forum layout or avatars) so it doesn't have to load them from scratch every time, thus making it load faster. Sometimes if one of those things is changed, the browser won't recognise it right away and will display the out-of-date information. Ctrl+F5 just refreshes the cache, meaning that it reloads everything from scratch. SoCalGuy went away earlier today, but I thought I'd have a little fun with you [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/P.gif[/img] I know who it is - he's someone I aspire to look like (yet not be like) when I get old (like, 5-10 years from now). There's currently a "Who is that guy in my avatar" guessing thread taking place in lameolando right now.)
[/quote]

I'm glad you were messing with me. It sounded like WAY too much power for someone other than a mod to be able to change someone's avatar at will. And, I realized, it has been awhile since I refreshed my Phatmass view.

Interesting.

Also, now I understand the "Name my avatar" thread on the Lame Board. I saw it, but never opened it (obviously).

[CatherineM]

You guys have a bad case of the "summer vacation" silliness.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='11 July 2010 - 11:45 PM' timestamp='1278913511' post='2141551']
As it turned out, I wasn't really meant for the corporate world, so maybe I'm just bitter and cynical. However, as workplaces go, mine wasn't nearly as cutthroat as some I've heard about, so I don't know.

Too much arrogance can definitely hurt you--but sometimes it's seen as self-confidence, or sometimes there is a very thin line between self-confidence and arrogance. I rarely tried humility--that may have been part of my problem. Plus, despite some changes for the better, my experience is that women still are viewed differently than men in the corporate world, and too much humility (and too much arrogance) can cause problems--although there are some very successful female professionals who are very arrogant. It's an interesting issue.

I haven't totally lost my idealism--I still believe that it should be possible to find a healthy, fun, positive workplace where people are treated well. I just haven't found one yet (although I haven't actively looked lately, either).

But, as they say, a cynic is a disappointed idealist.

I hope you find the answer. I was never able to.
[/quote]
In my experience self-confidence/arrogance are viewed differently in men than in women. In men it is more likely to be a positive (he's ambitious), but in women it can be a negative (she's "cranky"). I suppose the perception in either case is tied to how well a person produces (quantity and quality) and how well he or she gets along with people.

I have had something like 20 jobs in my working life. Most were short-term "anything to make a buck" jobs in college or second jobs when I was working full-time. Every workplace has its drawbacks but if I had to choose I think I would prefer to have great co-workers over my favorite kinds of work. I can find fulfillment in any type of work -- intellectual, physical, etc. -- but what makes a workplace good for me is the people I spend time with.

[bernadette d]

There is a pub called The Honest Lawyer in my home town, so, yes, at least one exists!