Abortion In The Usa

[Socrates]

[quote name='JimR-OCDS' date='21 July 2010 - 02:16 PM' timestamp='1279736194' post='2145988']
Socrates

[url="http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/catholics_must_be_engaged_in_political_debate_says_pope/"][b]Catholics must be engaged in political debate, says Pope[/b][/url]


When did I say we should be engaged in the political debate? Of course we should, but in order to be engaged, you're going to have to know something about writing laws and getting them passed.

You also need to engage in the debate with respect and avoid inflammatory divisive rhetoric,
which the Pope has also called for.
[/quote]
Murder of the innocent is a sin which cries out to heaven for vengeance.

Yet, I suppose we should avoid such "inflammatory" "divisive" realities, and speak only in pleasant sounding euphemisms like "choice" and "women's rights" when discussing this issue, lest some people be upset by the ugly truth. Then we can use the ensuing ignorance and confusion as an excuse to support the continuing legality of abortion.

I love how with the bleeding hearts, being "divisive" (ie. strongly disagreeing with liberal opinion) is regarded as the ultimate crime. Jesus Christ was divisive.("I come not to bring peace but a sword.")
The truth should never be compromised for the sake of avoiding "divisiveness."

[quote name='JimR-OCDS' date='21 July 2010 - 04:11 PM' timestamp='1279743072' post='2146090']
Nihil Obstat'



[i]Do you believe that an abortion as defined by the Church can ever *not* be called murder, as you argued last October?
[/i]
A direct abortion as defined by the Church is murder, but really legally its more in line with manslaughter as defined in law where no malice or
aforethought is used.[/quote]
If someone decides to kill one's unborn child, sets up an appointment, drives out to the abortion mill, and agrees to pay the abortionist good money to do the deed, I think it's hard to argue that malice and aforethought was lacking.

Even more ridiculous is claiming that the abortionist, who bought or rented the land and equipment, obtained licenses, set up a business, and regularly accepts money to kill babies for a living is acting without malice or aforethought.

Manslaughter refers to killings done without aforethought, either accidentally (though through neglect) or without any premeditation (such as killing someone in a fight). The only case in which an abortion might be voluntary manslaughter would be a situation like someone punching a pregnant woman in the belly during a drunken rage and thus killing the baby.


[quote]However, as I have pointed out in October and in here, but which you prefer to dance around, not all abortions are direct abortions as defined
by the Church.


Jim[/quote]
You've failed to provide any proof whatever for that assertion.

Anyone else find it amusing how Jimbo has tried every red herring and diversionary tactic - from discussing the beliefs of the current congress, to talking about "indirect abortions," to discussing what the Jews and Muslims think - to avoid answering the simple question of whether abortion [b]should[/b] be illegal?

We should support laws which protect the lives of the innocent whether we think such laws are likely to pass or not. There's nothing in Catholic teaching which says we should only stand up for what is right and just if we think we're assured of political victory.

[Winchester]

[quote]The inalienable right to life of every innocent human individual is a constitutive element of a civil society and its legislation:

"The inalienable rights of the person must be recognized and respected by civil society and the political authority. These human rights depend neither on single individuals nor on parents; nor do they represent a concession made by society and the state; they belong to human nature and are inherent in the person by virtue of the creative act from which the person took his origin. Among such fundamental rights one should mention in this regard every human being's right to life and physical integrity from the moment of conception until death."80

"The moment a positive law deprives a category of human beings of the protection which civil legislation ought to accord them, the state is denying the equality of all before the law. When the state does not place its power at the service of the rights of each citizen, and in particular of the more vulnerable, the very foundations of a state based on law are undermined. . . . As a consequence of the respect and protection which must be ensured for the unborn child from the moment of conception, the law must provide appropriate penal sanctions for every deliberate violation of the child's rights."81


[/quote]
Society's "concensus" is irrelevant. There is no requirement to represent the majority in moral issues. Bringing this croutons up is just another way of Kennedy Catholics to skirt real teaching. Yeah, let's keep abortion legal because we can make people uncomfortable by asking a difficult question.

[Winchester]

Where do they sell the CCC, Kennedy Edition?

[MIKolbe]

Fenway Park...

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1282510728' post='2161597']
Where do they sell the CCC, Kennedy Edition?
[/quote]
It would be fun to write up a big old Adversus Haereses against the Kennedy Catechism.

[Marie-Therese]

I would like to take this opportunity to point out that the phrase is "with malice aforethought." NOT "with malice and aforethought." You cannot have aforethought. You can, however, have a forethought.

Sorry to go all grammar nazi, but this drove me nuts the first time I read this thread and it still makes me cringe. Maybe when Jim comes back he can tell us more about moral relativism, and abortion, and aforethoughts.

Thank you. Please tip your waitress.

[Winchester]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1282515283' post='2161624']
It would be fun to write up a big old Adversus Haereses against the Kennedy Catechism.
[/quote]
But Nihil, those dumb old popes didn't understand the complexities of representing the conveniences expected by modern white liberal intelligentsia!

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1282525779' post='2161704']
But Nihil, those dumb old popes didn't understand the complexities of representing the conveniences expected by modern white liberal intelligentsia!
[/quote]
That's why we're gonna write it.

[SaintOfVirtue]

+1