The Ppc

[vee]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='10 July 2010 - 06:01 PM' timestamp='1278802862' post='2140951']
LOL I can hear it now. "Sister, why does our library have no books?" Reply from Sister P, "We had so many pictures of St. Thomas that there was no room left for books or anything else. Even books by St. Thomas. Go offer it up."
[/quote]
I was basically thinking the same thing. "Sister I'd like to borrow a volume from the Summa where can I find it?"
Sister P "well we don't have any copies of the Summa but we do have this nice painting of Thomas writing it!"

[TeresaBenedicta]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='10 July 2010 - 08:01 PM' timestamp='1278802862' post='2140951']
LOL I can hear it now. "Sister, why does our library have no books?" Reply from Sister P, "We had so many pictures of St. Thomas that there was no room left for books or anything else. Even books by St. Thomas. Go offer it up."
[/quote]

"But Sister!"

"No buts. If you were any good at contemplation, you'd already be infused with all that Thomas taught!"

[JTheresa]

[JTheresa]

Wow, I'm gone 24 hours and look what I miss. I'm gonna need more time to respond to these posts. I'll be back in an hour or two, after I have my laptop available. ( it's hard to post a lengthy response on my iPod!!)

[JTheresa]

[quote name='laetitia crucis' date='10 July 2010 - 12:25 PM' timestamp='1278779103' post='2140750']
Ooooh, and now that you mention it, I think it's a FAAAABULOUS idea to have paintings/busts of each of the 33 Doctors of the Church!! That's a [i]SCATHINGLY BRILLIANT[/i] idea!!!

...

Though I absolutely adore that library, I totally understand what you mean the size.

Perhaps we could have a slightly sized-down version of my beloved Bodleian Library:

[img]http://www.londonforidiots.com/images/harry_potter/bodleian_library_oxford.jpg[/img]
[/quote]
I like the size and simplicity of this library. Very fit for a convent. Although I do know of convents who have a few libraries: one in the novitiate, one in the main house, one larger on near the "classrooms" one small one on the same floor as the cells, for late night browsing.

[quote name='vee8' date='10 July 2010 - 12:29 PM' timestamp='1278779393' post='2140752']
So many wonderful libraries to choose from here
http://curiousexpeditions.org/?p=78
[/quote]


[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='10 July 2010 - 12:49 PM' timestamp='1278780563' post='2140768']
That library is gorgeous! I love old libraries! However, I was envisioning something quite a bit smaller for us. Unless you're envisioning a community of thousands, that library is much larger than we need.

Also, unless they have made modifications that don't show, old libraries aren't necessarily good for the books. Plus, you'll notice something not shown in that view of the stacks--reading and study space! Just as it isn't particularly practical to try to have a church that looks "old," unless you plan to import it stone by stone (which strikes me as unnecessary and ostentatious spending), we will design the library so that it is beautiful, and warm and cozy, and the study and reading spaces have views of the cloister or outside, but it will include some modern modifications to protect our books against heat, humidity, flooding, mold and lots of other things that "kill" books. Not to mention that while it's beautiful, I wouldn't be surprised if the library above is a fire hazard. You'll see in the bottom picture that the stacks are blocked off from the people looking at the exhibit in the center. For a number of reasons, the stacks in many of the old libraries in the U.K., at least, are not open--you have to request books and wait for someone to bring them to you. That's no fun! Half of the fun of libraries is browsing in the stacks!

There is always a tradeoff. Old buildings are gorgeous, but often they are too cold in winter and too hot in summer, and things like modern sanitation (and electricity!) have to be added on. Plus, unless we decide our monastery is in Europe, we have nothing that old in the U.S. So, instead, we need to find an architect that designs beautiful new buildings. Thankfully all new churches etc. don't have to look like generic church basements or ultra-modern and stark. But, trying to make something new look old usually ends up looking fake. I need to find some pictures of the style of architecture I'm talking about.
[/quote]
I think I know what you are talking about. I think you're talking about similar things that they did to Notre Dame right? I was just on their campus last week and they did a really good job of blending the architecture of the new buildings with that of the old (or at least I thought so). And I also believe that the Vatican requires stigmatists to keep the Stigmata covered unless instructed otherwise by a Vatican official. I understand why on a number of levels, especially sanitation.

[quote name='vee8' date='10 July 2010 - 01:28 PM' timestamp='1278782901' post='2140795']
Must. Have. Window.

[img]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_mV4aKbABlw0/R8zXwJ2ZTOI/AAAAAAAAAKQ/jk0HyGEFd6A/s320/IMG_5490.JPG[/img]
[/quote]
agreed. Simply epic window. If we had a little greenhouse or something (for growing veggies year round) we could put it in there.

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='10 July 2010 - 04:14 PM' timestamp='1278792865' post='2140878']
Definitely! That's a gorgeous window! For the monastery we're envisioning, we're going to need some gifted artisans, but hopefully, because we'll be creating something beautiful, it will be satisfying work for them, as well as satisfying for us, who get to enjoy their work. I envision stained glass windows in many parts of the monastery, not just in the main chapel. But, we'll also want sunlight in the monastery, as well, and views of the most beautiful parts of our cloister, gardens, and surrounding area.

This thread is interesting, because what different people want, and what is important to them, shows a little of what they are like. As you can tell, I tend to be of a practical bent--logistics has always been something I enjoyed and am good at. (And, you don't need to move around a lot to plan.) We'll need other Sisters, for example, who know about and love gardens. (I know nothing about gardening and don't enjoy doing it, although I love beautiful gardens, especially with flowers.) I liked the idea of a statue of St. Therese somewhere in the monastery gardens. Since she is known as the "Little Flower," I see her in the middle of a garden of flowers, with perhaps a bench for meditation, or even a small shrine. [/quote]
Hmm, this a good example?

[img]http://home.earthlink.net/~carmelitesofboston/community/images/monastery6.jpg[/img]

I think I might want to have a [i]slightly[/i] bigger one though. I like big statues of saints. I dunno why, they just seem even more grand when they are depicted on a grand scale!

[JTheresa]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='10 July 2010 - 04:14 PM' timestamp='1278792865' post='2140878']
But, as I have alluded to in the past, I am finding there are "cultural differences" between Catholicism and the traditions I grew up with. To give one concrete example, I don't know if it's just the individuals who post here in VS, or if it's Catholicism in general, but I am seeing more emphasis on religious paintings that graphically depict the crucifixion, and other events. For example, I loved the picture of St. Ignatius, but I wanted to cut his image out, and make that small section the whole picture. Personally, I would have a hard time concentrating on St. Ignatius and his teachings if I were looking at a painting, like the one pictured, where front and center there is a man who has died violently.

Perhaps it's just me (it may well be), but I tend to focus more on Jesus' teachings and the joy of his resurrection. That is not say at all that I don't think about the crucifixion or ignore or downplay the sufferings Christ endured for us, but I find the more graphic depictions distract me (and sometimes upset me) rather than inspire me.

So, for example, I picture our chapel as being a lovely, welcoming, peaceful, holy place, where Jesus lives. But, for me, it would detract from this peacefulness if many images on the walls were very graphic and bloody. Of course there will be crucifixes, but perhaps ones that weren't so graphic, at least in the main chapel.

Perhaps there could be another chapel on the grounds that could be called something like "The Chapel of the Crucifixion" That chapel would be intended for meditation on Christ's suffering for us, and it could include the more graphic depictions of the crucifixion. Also, for example, although all Sister's cells would have a single cross or crucifix (as seems to be standard practice in monsteries), perhaps each Sister could pick the crucifix she wanted for her cell among a range of options.

I suspect that over time, I will get more used to graphic depictions of the crucifixion, and although I am sure there are graphic pictures in Anglican churches and cathedrals, my feeling overall is that this is one of the "cultural differences" that I am finding to be more difficult than I expected it would be. [/quote]

That's a brilliant idea!!! As you said, I of L, there are people who actually have a harder time concentrating when such disturbing images are shown. I know typically that the Franciscans and the Carmelites have a particular devotion to the Passion, as well as, of course the Passionists. So, we could have a smaller(ish) chapel dedicated to meditating on the Passion. We could have some really beautiful Stations set up for year round meditation, regardless of the weather. And depending on how graphic we make the images, (and how the other Sisters feel about it) we could have the Good Friday service there! I dunno, just a thought. And don't worry about the cultural differences I of L, it's something that comes with creating a community with so many different people and charisms!!! It's just something that we have to allow for out of our great love for each Sister. We'll find a way to make it work. The great thing is, its imaginary!!! We can do practically anything!!!

[krissylou]

[quote name='JTheresa' date='10 July 2010 - 11:19 PM' timestamp='1278818343' post='2141048']
That's a brilliant idea!!! As you said, I of L, there are people who actually have a harder time concentrating when such disturbing images are shown. I know typically that the Franciscans and the Carmelites have a particular devotion to the Passion, as well as, of course the Passionists. So, we could have a smaller(ish) chapel dedicated to meditating on the Passion. We could have some really beautiful Stations set up for year round meditation, regardless of the weather. And depending on how graphic we make the images, (and how the other Sisters feel about it) we could have the Good Friday service there! I dunno, just a thought. And don't worry about the cultural differences I of L, it's something that comes with creating a community with so many different people and charisms!!! It's just something that we have to allow for out of our great love for each Sister. We'll find a way to make it work. The great thing is, its imaginary!!! We can do practically anything!!!
[/quote]

Can we decree that we can have busts in the library of all the Doctors of the Church and that they will magically not collect dust?



I would be in favor of that decree.

[JTheresa]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='10 July 2010 - 04:14 PM' timestamp='1278792865' post='2140878']
As we discuss our "new" Community, there are lots of things that, in my ignorance, I don't know how they are usually handled in religious communities. For example, I suspect some of the Sisters will want to be cloistered. So we will have the interesting task of combining cloistered, semi-cloistered, and active Sisters in one community.

One suggestion from the Benedictines was that we welcome visitors to the chapel and that we offer retreats. I think offering retreats is an excellent suggestion for one of the apostolates of the community, particularly for the active Sisters. The active Sisters could also function as extern Sisters.

But, I don't know how it works when communities who are cloistered offer retreats. I don't think that any Sister who didn't want to be involved in retreats would need to be--there will be SO many jobs within the Community that need to be done. But, for example, I think the cloistered Whitesville Passionists offer retreats. How do they mix offering retreats, with the fact that at least part of their grounds, not only the Monastery itself, is cloistered and not open to visitors? How does this work out in a practical way? My personal preference would be that, if we offer retreats and welcome visitors to our chapel, that visitors would only be allowed on the community grounds (in the non-cloistered areas) at set times or by appointment. Yet I know of cloistered religious communities in which the chapel is open all day. How do they work this? And, others may feel differently about offering retreats--I hope people speak up.

Because we have talked about a somewhat isolated location, this wouldn't be the right community for women who wanted to work with inner city poor, for example. But, there are other types of apostolates.

On a related issue--How do we set up the chapel if some of the Sisters are cloistered, but we also want to worship together as a Community as much as possible. If the chapel is not private, and has visitors sometimes, how should we set up the "cloistered" part of the chapel? I've been surprised (and sometimes a little disappointed) when I've seen pictures of the Sister's chapel behind the grille in some cloistered communities. It often looks very bare and sparse, and so simple as to look almost shabby. Is it possible for the cloistered part of the chapel to be beautiful in its own way? Or is it supposed to be so simple, and yes, often shabby for reasons other than money, Although the chapel area behind the grille is often off to one side, I have seen other designs, with the cloistered section placed elsewhere. How would we like to set ours up? I have no practical experience with any of this--I have never been in a monastery, only seen pictures, so I don't know how it "works."

I suspect one of our biggest challenges may be the liturgy used. I assume we would chant the LOTH, but, as I understand it, each Order and Community has special traditions and uses somewhat different words. This doesn't even bring up the issue of Latin versus English. Maybe this is such a difficult issue that we should just say, "We'll find a way to work it out" and talk about easier things.
[/quote]
I have a couple of ideas...

1. Cloistered and active combined. We could try to have a time throughout the day that the active sisters would go about their apostolate and the cloistered sisters would stay home, cook, pray, do laundry, etc. and our monastery could be decently close to a small or medium size city where the active sisters could go and teach minister etc without being super far away. which brings up another issue: what do the active sisters use as a means of transportation?

2. Retreats: We could have a retreat house with its own little chapel OR we could have a retreat house attached to the monastery THROUGH the main chapel. If that makes any sense. and we could have a nice little hedge separating the cloistered gardens with the non-cloistered. Opinions? Ideas?

3. cloister chapel. I think I have heard of cloistered communities where the chapel is not cloistered, so people could come in and pray with the cloistered sisters. I think the difference is whether or not we have a grill. Another issue which needs discussed. That will probably influence how we set up the chapel. I'm not really knowledgeable at all in this area so hopefully someone who is will kindly submit their ideas. And even someone who's not knowledgeable but is really creative, l'd love to hear those too!!!

4. Liturgy. Def not an easy topic. I like the latin and the english, but I don't know the latin. I just love latin. Is it possible to have some hours done in latin and some in english? Just a thought... But aren't there different versions of LOTH pre VII and post? Or is that just office of readings? Which would we use?

Wow, I need to go to bed. Good Night!!!

[JTheresa]

[quote name='krissylou' date='10 July 2010 - 11:25 PM' timestamp='1278818750' post='2141052']
Can we decree that we can have busts in the library of all the Doctors of the Church and that they will magically not collect dust?



I would be in favor of that decree.
[/quote]
I second that motion. All in favor... AYE!!!

[JTheresa]

Oh, and on a another side note, I think that wearing wedding dresses for investiture is a MUST!!! Haha that's just my opinion. I think that would so cool and super uber awesome. It's not going to happen at my investiture so I would like to imagine it happening to me. I think the closest thing that I ever came to wedding dress and veil was my First Communion. I had white gloves too.

[JTheresa]

Okay, last little tidbit for the night:

this thread was started July 7; 3 days ago.

There have been 130 replies.

and 1,343 views.











Wow.

edited for number irregularities.

Edited July 11, 2010 by JTheresa

[vee]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='10 July 2010 - 03:14 PM' timestamp='1278792865' post='2140878']


But, as I have alluded to in the past, I am finding there are "cultural differences" between Catholicism and the traditions I grew up with. To give one concrete example,[b] I don't know if it's just the individuals who post here in VS,[/b] or if it's Catholicism in general, but I am seeing more emphasis on religious paintings that graphically depict the crucifixion, and other events. For example, I loved the picture of St. Ignatius, but I wanted to cut his image out, and make that small section the whole picture. Personally, I would have a hard time concentrating on St. Ignatius and his teachings if I were looking at a painting, like the one pictured, where front and center there is a man who has died violently.

[/quote]

I just wanted to comment on the bold part for now. I think people who post here in VS are different from other Catholics of a similar age because we are at some stage of discerning a religious vocation. I dont know what kind of people other posters have around them but no one I know around my age even goes to church. At my large parish no one has gone on to be a religious Sister in over thirty years. That doesnt make me special or super holy or something because Im discerning it just makes me very different. So when I express my opinion about art for example it is an incredibly minority opinion. Whats the population of Canada 34 million or so? There are nine Carmels here and Ill say nine nuns in each so thats 81. 81 out of 34 mil. It boggles my mind anyway. I must be crazy to think God could possibly be calling me to be #82 Its ridiculous! So take my posts with a lot of salt!

Edited July 11, 2010 by vee8

[vee]

[quote name='JTheresa' date='10 July 2010 - 10:41 PM' timestamp='1278819707' post='2141057']
I have a couple of ideas...

ter etc without being super far away. which brings up another issue: what do the active sisters use as a means of transportation?

2. Retreats: We could have a retreat house with its own little chapel OR we could have a retreat house attached to the monastery THROUGH the main chapel. If that makes any sense. and we could have a nice little [b]hedge[/b] separating the cloistered gardens with the non-cloistered. Opinions? Ideas?[/quote]
I support hedges as long as I at least may refer to them as shrubberies
[quote]
3. cloister chapel. I think I have heard of cloistered communities where the chapel is not cloistered, so people could come in and pray with the cloistered sisters. I think the difference is whether or not we have a grill. Another issue which needs discussed. That will probably influence how we set up the chapel. I'm not really knowledgeable at all in this area so hopefully someone who is will kindly submit their ideas. And even someone who's not knowledgeable but is really creative, l'd love to hear those too!!![/quote]

Im thinking a kind of U shaped choir where the non cloistered Sisters can have their choir stalls on the outside edges and then the Poor Clares, Carmelites, and anyone else who requires a choir with a grille can have theirs set in the wall behind the non cloistered stalls.

This picture (not mine) from Sacre Coeur in Paris gets at my idea because as you can sort of see the choir stalls are around the altar.
[img]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_GzQnzaF4k-o/SDsmwz1fvmI/AAAAAAAAENo/8etNAUjWgiU/s400/399px-Sacre_Coeur_-_Choeur%252C_Abside_et_Mosaique.jpg[/img]

[krissylou]

[quote name='JTheresa' date='10 July 2010 - 11:43 PM' timestamp='1278819814' post='2141058']
I second that motion. All in favor... AYE!!!
[/quote]

Note to self. Do not under any circumstances tell Vatican about magically enchanted statues in the library.

[vee]

[quote name='JTheresa' date='10 July 2010 - 10:19 PM' timestamp='1278818343' post='2141048']
I know typically that the Franciscans and the Carmelites have a particular devotion to the Passion, [b]as well as, of course the Passionists. [/b]
[/quote]

they do?!