The Ppc

[laetitia crucis]

[quote name='vee8' date='10 July 2010 - 12:05 PM' timestamp='1278777911' post='2140747']
for Jerome and Catherine of A but another pic of Thom???? I thought one of the twenty you posted already was for the library! Ok maybe it's a very big library so two of Aquinas might be ok but if you get two of him I want one of Therese in there too! It only makes sense she being a doctor of the church and all. Hey we could have paintings or busts of each of the 33 doctors of the church [/quote]

I get a little picture-posting happy, especially at night. Hahaha!

I'm totally happy about having [i]one[/i] Thom AND a Therese in the library!

Ooooh, and now that you mention it, I think it's a FAAAABULOUS idea to have paintings/busts of each of the 33 Doctors of the Church!! That's a [i]SCATHINGLY BRILLIANT[/i] idea!!!



[quote name='vee8']The style of Trinity College library in Dublin is one possibility but I think maybe it's a bit too big for us
[img]http://twalshphoto.net/albums/Ireland/slides/Old%20Library%20-%20Trinity%20College%20Dublin.jpg[/img]

edited to add this pic
[img]http://www.scss.tcd.ie/conferences/esslli2007/content/CD_Contents/content/logos/tcd_library.jpg[/img]
[/quote]

Though I absolutely adore that library, I totally understand what you mean the size.

Perhaps we could have a slightly sized-down version of my beloved Bodleian Library:

[img]http://www.londonforidiots.com/images/harry_potter/bodleian_library_oxford.jpg[/img]

[vee]

So many wonderful libraries to choose from here
http://curiousexpeditions.org/?p=78

[laetitia crucis]

[quote name='vee8' date='10 July 2010 - 12:29 PM' timestamp='1278779393' post='2140752']
So many wonderful libraries to choose from here
http://curiousexpeditions.org/?p=78
[/quote]

*gasp*



Those are AWESOME!!!



I must ponder these...

[laetitia crucis]

Oh my! Look at the card catalog!!!

How I've missed using these...

[img]http://www.curiousexpeditions.org/133011158_c92fe0896d_o.jpg[/img]

I even miss the smell. Old books. Old card catalogs.

(Granted, I will admit, I am rather fond of the instant gratification of the electronic catalog now.. especially if I can't remember how to spell various names or titles I'm looking for. )

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='vee8' date='10 July 2010 - 11:05 AM' timestamp='1278777911' post='2140747']
[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/caption_yes.gif[/img] for Jerome and Catherine of A but another pic of Thom???? I thought one of the twenty you posted already was for the library! [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/lol.gif[/img] Ok maybe it's a very big library so two of Aquinas might be ok but if you get two of him I want one of Therese in there too! It only makes sense she being a doctor of the church and all. Hey we could have paintings or busts of each of the 33 doctors of the church [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif[/img]

The style of Trinity College library in Dublin is one possibility but I think maybe it's a bit too big for us
[img]http://twalshphoto.net/albums/Ireland/slides/Old%20Library%20-%20Trinity%20College%20Dublin.jpg[/img]

edited to add this pic
[img]http://www.scss.tcd.ie/conferences/esslli2007/content/CD_Contents/content/logos/tcd_library.jpg[/img]
[/quote]

That library is gorgeous! I love old libraries! However, I was envisioning something quite a bit smaller for us. Unless you're envisioning a community of thousands, that library is much larger than we need.

Also, unless they have made modifications that don't show, old libraries aren't necessarily good for the books. Plus, you'll notice something not shown in that view of the stacks--reading and study space! Just as it isn't particularly practical to try to have a church that looks "old," unless you plan to import it stone by stone (which strikes me as unnecessary and ostentatious spending), we will design the library so that it is beautiful, and warm and cozy, and the study and reading spaces have views of the cloister or outside, but it will include some modern modifications to protect our books against heat, humidity, flooding, mold and lots of other things that "kill" books. Not to mention that while it's beautiful, I wouldn't be surprised if the library above is a fire hazard. You'll see in the bottom picture that the stacks are blocked off from the people looking at the exhibit in the center. For a number of reasons, the stacks in many of the old libraries in the U.K., at least, are not open--you have to request books and wait for someone to bring them to you. That's no fun! Half of the fun of libraries is browsing in the stacks!

There is always a tradeoff. Old buildings are gorgeous, but often they are too cold in winter and too hot in summer, and things like modern sanitation (and electricity!) have to be added on. Plus, unless we decide our monastery is in Europe, we have nothing that old in the U.S. So, instead, we need to find an architect that designs beautiful new buildings. Thankfully all new churches etc. don't have to look like generic church basements or ultra-modern and stark. But, trying to make something new look old usually ends up looking fake. I need to find some pictures of the style of architecture I'm talking about.

If we have statues around the library, that means someone has to dust them (and dust is very bad for books). Plus, they fall on people. (You obviously haven't read any mysteries with "Murder in the Library" LOL)

I like the idea of St. Jerome in the library, but let's see if we can find a picture of him where he has his shirt on. Or perhaps pictures like the one of Jerome are intended to make it easier to keep a vow of chastity! As much as I respect Jerome, I think we need a policy of shirts required in the Library. LOL

One more thing I thought of last night. (There I was, trying to sleep, and I was designing monasteries in my head.) Any Sisters with active stigmata will be asked to put on gloves or other coverings while in the library. Blood is very bad for books (and the librarian). [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif[/img]

[vee]

[quote name='laetitia crucis' date='10 July 2010 - 11:41 AM' timestamp='1278780065' post='2140759']
Oh my! Look at the card catalog!!!

How I've missed using these...

[img]http://www.curiousexpeditions.org/133011158_c92fe0896d_o.jpg[/img]

I even miss the smell. Old books. Old card catalogs.

(Granted, I will admit, I am rather fond of the instant gratification of the electronic catalog now.. especially if I can't remember how to spell various names or titles I'm looking for. )
[/quote]

Maybe we can have both systems if it isn't too much work for Sister Librarian. Hmm maybe we could have a reading room right next to the library instead of in it for all our statues and stuff

[laetitia crucis]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='10 July 2010 - 12:49 PM' timestamp='1278780563' post='2140768']

If we have statues around the library, that means someone has to dust them (and dust is very bad for books). Plus, they fall on people. (You obviously haven't read any mysteries with "Murder in the Library" LOL)

I like the idea of St. Jerome in the library, but let's see if we can find a picture of him where he has his shirt on. Or perhaps pictures like the one of Jerome are intended to make it easier to keep a vow of chastity! As much as I respect Jerome, I think we need a policy of shirts required in the Library. LOL

One more thing I thought of last night. (There I was, trying to sleep, and I was designing monasteries in my head.) Any Sisters with active stigmata will be asked to put on gloves or other coverings while in the library. Blood is very bad for books (and the librarian). [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif[/img]
[/quote]



I literally laughed out loud reading this!

I agree about finding a shirt for St. Jerome! Good policy, Sr. Polycarp! Aaaand, I second your suggestion about any Sisters with active stigmata!

"No touchy!"
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En21ZFUjSHQ[/media]

[vee]

Must. Have. Window.

[img]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_mV4aKbABlw0/R8zXwJ2ZTOI/AAAAAAAAAKQ/jk0HyGEFd6A/s320/IMG_5490.JPG[/img]

[Mary Veronica]

[quote name='vee8' date='10 July 2010 - 02:58 PM' timestamp='1278782901' post='2140795']
Must. Have. window.

[img]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_mV4aKbABlw0/R8zXwJ2ZTOI/AAAAAAAAAKQ/jk0HyGEFd6A/s320/IMG_5490.JPG[/img]
[/quote]



that is so beautiful....




...

[Mary Veronica]

[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' date='09 July 2010 - 09:15 PM' timestamp='1278719131' post='2140194']
Oh my.

Look what I miss when I'm gone for a few days! Shows me to go missing.


[/quote]

welcome back

[laetitia crucis]

[quote name='vee8' date='10 July 2010 - 01:28 PM' timestamp='1278782901' post='2140795']
Must. Have. Window.

[img]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_mV4aKbABlw0/R8zXwJ2ZTOI/AAAAAAAAAKQ/jk0HyGEFd6A/s320/IMG_5490.JPG[/img]
[/quote]

Love. It.

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='laetitia crucis' date='10 July 2010 - 12:49 PM' timestamp='1278784156' post='2140808']
Love. It.

[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/woot.gif[/img]

[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/yahoo.gif[/img]
[/quote]

Definitely! That's a gorgeous window! For the monastery we're envisioning, we're going to need some gifted artisans, but hopefully, because we'll be creating something beautiful, it will be satisfying work for them, as well as satisfying for us, who get to enjoy their work. I envision stained glass windows in many parts of the monastery, not just in the main chapel. But, we'll also want sunlight in the monastery, as well, and views of the most beautiful parts of our cloister, gardens, and surrounding area.

This thread is interesting, because what different people want, and what is important to them, shows a little of what they are like. As you can tell, I tend to be of a practical bent--logistics has always been something I enjoyed and am good at. (And, you don't need to move around a lot to plan.) We'll need other Sisters, for example, who know about and love gardens. (I know nothing about gardening and don't enjoy doing it, although I love beautiful gardens, especially with flowers.) I liked the idea of a statue of St. Therese somewhere in the monastery gardens. Since she is known as the "Little Flower," I see her in the middle of a garden of flowers, with perhaps a bench for meditation, or even a small shrine.

But, as I have alluded to in the past, I am finding there are "cultural differences" between Catholicism and the traditions I grew up with. To give one concrete example, I don't know if it's just the individuals who post here in VS, or if it's Catholicism in general, but I am seeing more emphasis on religious paintings that graphically depict the crucifixion, and other events. For example, I loved the picture of St. Ignatius, but I wanted to cut his image out, and make that small section the whole picture. Personally, I would have a hard time concentrating on St. Ignatius and his teachings if I were looking at a painting, like the one pictured, where front and center there is a man who has died violently.

Perhaps it's just me (it may well be), but I tend to focus more on Jesus' teachings and the joy of his resurrection. That is not say at all that I don't think about the crucifixion or ignore or downplay the sufferings Christ endured for us, but I find the more graphic depictions distract me (and sometimes upset me) rather than inspire me.

So, for example, I picture our chapel as being a lovely, welcoming, peaceful, holy place, where Jesus lives. But, for me, it would detract from this peacefulness if many images on the walls were very graphic and bloody. Of course there will be crucifixes, but perhaps ones that weren't so graphic, at least in the main chapel.

Perhaps there could be another chapel on the grounds that could be called something like "The Chapel of the Crucifixion" That chapel would be intended for meditation on Christ's suffering for us, and it could include the more graphic depictions of the crucifixion. Also, for example, although all Sister's cells would have a single cross or crucifix (as seems to be standard practice in monsteries), perhaps each Sister could pick the crucifix she wanted for her cell among a range of options.

I suspect that over time, I will get more used to graphic depictions of the crucifixion, and although I am sure there are graphic pictures in Anglican churches and cathedrals, my feeling overall is that this is one of the "cultural differences" that I am finding to be more difficult than I expected it would be.

Ideally, all of us will get at least a few things we want that are important to us, but in a community with so many charisms represented, we are all going to have to compromise, too. For example, if it seems better that I wear the "standard" Dominican habit for our community, rather than a variation, I'm fine with that (stains and all!)

As we discuss our "new" Community, there are lots of things that, in my ignorance, I don't know how they are usually handled in religious communities. For example, I suspect some of the Sisters will want to be cloistered. So we will have the interesting task of combining cloistered, semi-cloistered, and active Sisters in one community.

One suggestion from the Benedictines was that we welcome visitors to the chapel and that we offer retreats. I think offering retreats is an excellent suggestion for one of the apostolates of the community, particularly for the active Sisters. The active Sisters could also function as extern Sisters.

But, I don't know how it works when communities who are cloistered offer retreats. I don't think that any Sister who didn't want to be involved in retreats would need to be--there will be SO many jobs within the Community that need to be done. But, for example, I think the cloistered Whitesville Passionists offer retreats. How do they mix offering retreats, with the fact that at least part of their grounds, not only the Monastery itself, is cloistered and not open to visitors? How does this work out in a practical way? My personal preference would be that, if we offer retreats and welcome visitors to our chapel, that visitors would only be allowed on the community grounds (in the non-cloistered areas) at set times or by appointment. Yet I know of cloistered religious communities in which the chapel is open all day. How do they work this? And, others may feel differently about offering retreats--I hope people speak up.

Because we have talked about a somewhat isolated location, this wouldn't be the right community for women who wanted to work with inner city poor, for example. But, there are other types of apostolates.

On a related issue--How do we set up the chapel if some of the Sisters are cloistered, but we also want to worship together as a Community as much as possible. If the chapel is not private, and has visitors sometimes, how should we set up the "cloistered" part of the chapel? I've been surprised (and sometimes a little disappointed) when I've seen pictures of the Sister's chapel behind the grille in some cloistered communities. It often looks very bare and sparse, and so simple as to look almost shabby. Is it possible for the cloistered part of the chapel to be beautiful in its own way? Or is it supposed to be so simple, and yes, often shabby for reasons other than money, Although the chapel area behind the grille is often off to one side, I have seen other designs, with the cloistered section placed elsewhere. How would we like to set ours up? I have no practical experience with any of this--I have never been in a monastery, only seen pictures, so I don't know how it "works."

I suspect one of our biggest challenges may be the liturgy used. I assume we would chant the LOTH, but, as I understand it, each Order and Community has special traditions and uses somewhat different words. This doesn't even bring up the issue of Latin versus English. Maybe this is such a difficult issue that we should just say, "We'll find a way to work it out" and talk about easier things.

One important thing is that we haven't come up with is a name for our Community the community. One idea could be to name both the community and the main chapel after St. Joseph. Or, alternatively, we could pick a name that reflects the "charism" of the community, which we haven't discussed much, but which, at least in part, is a Community of Sisters representing different charisms, sort of a Benedictine/Carmelite/Dominican/Franciscan/Other Community. (BTW, those names are in alphabetical order, and I'm sure I've accidentally left out some important charism, for which I apologize). But, despite our differences, we live together peacefully, and support and celebrate both our differences and the ways we are alike. So, the community name, for example, could be "Our Lady of Peace" or something similar that expresses this idealistic goal.

I also realized that, since there will be at least a few of us who aren't Catholic (or who aren't Catholic, yet), I, at least I might like to have a separate non-Catholic chapel. Anglo-Catholic would be my preference, since the Anglo-Catholic tradition is liturgical as Catholicism is, and the liturgies have many similarities. Since the non-Catholic Sisters won't be able to take the Eucharist with the Catholic Sisters in a Catholic Mass, having an Anglo-Catholic priest come in once a week or so, to celebrate Mass for the non-Catholics would be very nice, especially since, if we are somewhat isolated, so there might probably be no Anglican or Anglo-Catholic congregation nearby.

Another reason I was thinking Anglo-Catholic is that I know that some Catholic VS posters have experienced anti-Catholic sentiment from non-Catholics, and anti-Catholic sentiment would be very unlikely with an Anglo-Catholic priest. (BTW--Under the currrent rules of the Angican Communion, the Eucharist, even in Anglo-Catholic parishes, is normally open to all baptized Christians, so that any baptized non-Catholic members could partake. This chapel could be outside the cloistered part of the Community, if some Sisters found the presence of a non-Catholic chapel in a cloistered area to be offensive. Just an idea.

Whew, this post is VERY long and I've covered a lot of subjects. That's more than enough from me for now. As I said, dummy me was lying in bed last night thinking about things like this, and had a hard time getting to sleep because my brain was so active. Getting all this written down means I can stop thinking about it, and get some other things done. Phew!

Go to it! What ideas and reactions do you have?

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='laetitia crucis' date='10 July 2010 - 11:41 AM' timestamp='1278780065' post='2140759']
Oh my! Look at the card catalog!!! [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/woot.gif[/img]

How I've missed using these...

[img]http://www.curiousexpeditions.org/133011158_c92fe0896d_o.jpg[/img]

I even miss the smell. Old books. Old card catalogs.

(Granted, I will admit, I am rather fond of the instant gratification of the electronic catalog now.. especially if I can't remember how to spell various names or titles I'm looking for. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/hehehe.gif[/img] )
[/quote]

I, too, love the smell of old books and old card catalogs. Unfortunately, card catalogs probably would take more "Sister-power" to keep up to date than we would want to spend. (And bluntly, filing catalog cards can get very boring--I've spent hundreds of hours doing it.) Also, because filing of catalog cards takes a certain amount of skill and training (just take my word on this), the typical practice is that, even if an assistant files the cards, she leaves them "above the rod" and a trained librarian goes and checks her work, and only then pulls out the rod, to put the card in place. Essentially a mis-filed catalog card is a "lost book," so you have to be incredibly detail-oriented to file catalog cards.

Although the card catalog would almost certainly need to be computerized, I'm not against having some old card catalogs "for show" or perhaps for certain limited parts of the collection. Card catalogs do give libraries a "feel" that computers can't replace. I wish they weren't so time-consuming.

Edited July 10, 2010 by IgnatiusofLoyola

[TeresaBenedicta]

For the record, there's no such thing as too many pictures of Thomas in a library. Just sayin'.

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' date='10 July 2010 - 05:25 PM' timestamp='1278800735' post='2140936']
For the record, there's no such thing as too many pictures of Thomas in a library. Just sayin'. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif[/img]
[/quote]

LOL I can hear it now. "Sister, why does our library have no books?" Reply from Sister P, "We had so many pictures of St. Thomas that there was no room left for books or anything else. Even books by St. Thomas. Go offer it up."