The Ppc

[krissylou]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='09 July 2010 - 05:01 PM' timestamp='1278709275' post='2140088']

One thing that's been in the back of my mind is feeling guilty, because there will be some things I just can't do because of my physical limitations. [/quote]

Oh! Oh! Oh!

You just added a new charism!

Wasn't this one of the founding ideas behind the Visitation Nuns? We were missing that!

L'Arche isn't formally an order (although close, and there certainly were times earlier in church history where in order to start a religious community you just DID IT, without jumping through hoops of private association and public association and congregation of diocesean right or pontifical right or what not [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif[/img] ) -- in that context well L'Arche would look much like a "religious community" to me -- and you're not that extremely disabled, but L'Arche is so incredibly beautiful.

Actually, one of my friends is a minister and the mother of a wonderful little girl who also has Down's Syndrome and has some just beautiful thoughts about how the Church NEEDS people with disabilities. Not that disabilities necessarily make people exceptionally holy or whatnot, but physical weakness does keep us from illusions of self-sufficiency (Paul's "thorn in the flesh"). Incorporating people with disabilities into our community is so important, precisely BECAUSE they can't do everything, they are a constant reminder that NONE of us can do everything and our worth is not in what we do but in who we are, as God's beloved creations, created in God's image and redeemed by Christ's life, death, and resurrection.

This imaginary community needs you more than we know!

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='vee8' date='09 July 2010 - 04:33 PM' timestamp='1278711211' post='2140106']
I wouldn't mind being Sister Mary Christmas because, as I wrote in some obscure thread before, when I was a teen I got to play Mary at the church nativity play. It was really special then and even more so now thinking back. I got to wear a blue veil and I remember thinking how I never wanted to take it off! [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/sweat.gif[/img] Now, a few years and a ton of sins later, I can't even begin to believe Mary might permit me to dress like her again ... for the rest of my life. I don't mind if the veil isn't blue this time either! Black is very ok [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/lol_grin.gif[/img]
[/quote]

One of my endless questions: Do we know that Mary wore a blue veil? Okay, I know I'm on controversial ground, and the issue of tradition versus writings in the Bible, and writings from others who lived in that time. I'm not questioning the tradition of Mary wearing a blue veil--I just don't know where it came from. I have NO idea what the normal dress was for young married women in that place and time.

That said, black veils have other lovely meanings, such as being symbolic of being dead to worldly things. Other Orders choose white for purity. But, I can understand the feeling of feeling as if you are not worthy to dress like Mary. That's a humility I have a lot of respect for. On the other hand, I can understand Orders that wear blue veils to show their love and respect for Mary, and as a constant reminder to strive to be like Mary.

I'd forgotten, but I also played Mary (wearing a blue veil) in the Christmas pageant one year. I loved that veil. Maybe that's where I got my love of veils. As a little girl, I used to wear a petticoat on my head as a veil, but it alternated between being a veil for a bride or wearing a veil like a nun. I was confused, even as a child! [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif[/img] (And, at that time, I didn't know that nuns/Sisters were considered "brides of Christ" or know that in some Orders, postulants wear bridal gowns in their clothing ceremony.)

Edited July 9, 2010 by IgnatiusofLoyola

[krissylou]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='09 July 2010 - 05:55 PM' timestamp='1278712543' post='2140138']
One of my endless questions: Do we know that Mary wore a blue veil? Okay, I know I'm on controversial ground, and the question of tradition versus writings in the Bible, and writings from others who lived in that time. I'm not questioning the tradition of Mary wearing a blue veil--I just don't know where it came from. I have NO idea what the normal dress was for young married women in that place and time.

That said, black veils have other lovely meanings, such as being symbolic of being dead to worldly things. Other Orders choose white for purity. But, I can understand the feeling of feeling as if you are not worthy to dress like Mary. That's a humility I have a lot of respect for. On the other hand, I can understand Orders that wear blue veils to show their love and respect for Mary, and as a constant reminder to strive to be like Mary.

I'd forgotten, but I also played Mary (wearing a blue veil) in the Christmas pageant one year. I loved that veil. Maybe that's where I got my love of veils. As a little girl, I used to wear a petticoat on my head as a veil, but it alternated between being a veil for a bride or wearing a veil like a nun. I was confused, even as a child! [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif[/img] (And, at that time, I didn't know that nuns/Sisters were considered "brides of Christ" or know that in some Orders, postulants wear bridal gowns in their clothing ceremony.)
[/quote]

I think that dyed cloth, of any color, would have been way too expensive for a family that offered pigeons as sacrifice to redeem their first-born son.

There's certainly nothing about blue veils in the Bible, and I don't think there's anything about blue veils in any other authoritative source.

It's a typical artist's rendering, and that's fine, but not historically accurate for first century Palestine.

None of which means that using blue to show Marian devotion is in any way bad. That is the connotation that it's taken on over time. But I don't think we have any reason to think that if we were walking around the streets of Nazareth in 15 AD we would have run into Miriam wearing a blue veil.

[laetitia crucis]

[quote name='vee8' date='09 July 2010 - 04:49 PM' timestamp='1278708565' post='2140077']
Sounds good while on the chapel decorating theme though I have one request for the Dominicans. First I love you and if God wants me to I'd happily be one of you, I also love your saints especially Thomas Aquinas. That said when you guys are contributing to the chapel decorations please don't use this pic

[img]http://www.revjbs.com.br/website/images/stories/saint_thomas_aquinas1.jpg[/img]

k thx
[/quote]



I concur with your request! (Apparently, he and Teresa must have been friends when it came to serious picture-painting time... Hahaha!)

How about this one:

[img]http://dailyoffice.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/thomasaquinas-670.jpg[/img]

Or perhaps this one (which is my favorite, btw):

[img]http://neatnik2009.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/thomas-aquinas.jpg[/img]

Or maybe even this one (which I am also quite fond of):

[img]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_FAzU4lNiQT0/R6MaNjCkfxI/AAAAAAAAD8Q/UxAnuq81LD4/S1600-R/Saint%2BThomas%2BAquinas.jpg[/img]



Ooooooor, the ever classic Fra Angelico painting:

[img]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ynN-UTH7fgM/SM1ilMh9zNI/AAAAAAAAAPg/gN8U61Laa1g/s1600/StThomasFraAngelico_2.jpg[/img]
[size="1"]I use this one frequently as my cellphone wallpaper. [/size]

[laetitia crucis]

Oh! Oh!Oh!Oh!

Might I suggest this one...?

[img]http://www.backtoclassics.com/images/pics/fraangelico/fraangelico_virginandchildwithsaintsdominicandthomasaquinas.jpg[/img]

I just found that one and like it so much I think I'm going to set it as my desktop wallpaper!

[laetitia crucis]

[quote name='vee8' date='09 July 2010 - 05:33 PM' timestamp='1278711211' post='2140106']
I wouldn't mind being Sister Mary Christmas because, as I wrote in some obscure thread before, when I was a teen I got to play Mary at the church nativity play. It was really special then and even more so now thinking back. I got to wear a blue veil and I remember thinking how I never wanted to take it off! Now, a few years and a ton of sins later, I can't even begin to believe Mary might permit me to dress like her again ... for the rest of my life. I don't mind if the veil isn't blue this time either! Black is very ok
[/quote]

My "Mary" veil was a light sky blue -- very much the color of the veils of the Franciscans Sisters of the Immaculate. Even as a little Baptist child, I wanted to keep wearing that veil.

So that makes THREE of us that have played Mary in a Christmas nativity play.... me, you, and Ignatius!! I think that's pretty cool.

Anyone else?

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='laetitia crucis' date='09 July 2010 - 06:33 PM' timestamp='1278718437' post='2140189']
[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif[/img]

I concur with your request! (Apparently, he and Teresa must have been friends when it came to serious picture-painting time... [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/P.gif[/img] Hahaha!)
[/quote]

I like all the pictures you posted! [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif[/img]

I was going to tell Vee that we'd use a less dour picture of St. Thomas Aquinas if she would give us one of a smiling St. Teresa. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif[/img] But, that is unfair because I think it was the custom to paint religious figures with serious faces. I'm not sure exactly why, but one guess might be that a painting of a laughing saint might be considered irreverent.

[TeresaBenedicta]

Oh my.

Look what I miss when I'm gone for a few days! Shows me to go missing.

[laetitia crucis]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='09 July 2010 - 07:42 PM' timestamp='1278718930' post='2140193']
I like all the pictures you posted! [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif[/img]

I was going to tell Vee that we'd use a less dour picture of St. Thomas Aquinas if she would give us one of a smiling St. Teresa. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif[/img] But, that is unfair because I think it was the custom to paint religious figures with serious faces. I'm not sure exactly why, but one guess might be that a painting of a laughing saint might be considered irreverent.
[/quote]

I thought this one looked somewhat "cheerful" for Teresa:

[img]http://catholickermit.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/st-teresa-of-avila-icon.jpeg[/img]



Well, actually she looks kind of smirkish to me, but I like it!

Maybe it's that tambourine that brings it out of her. I imagine her thinking, "Teehee." behind that "Mona Lisa"-esque expression.

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='laetitia crucis' date='09 July 2010 - 06:41 PM' timestamp='1278718879' post='2140192']
My "Mary" veil was a light sky blue -- very much the color of the veils of the Franciscans Sisters of the Immaculate. Even as a little Baptist child, I wanted to keep wearing that veil. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/sweat.gif[/img]

So that makes THREE of us that have played Mary in a Christmas nativity play.... me, you, and Ignatius!! I think that's pretty cool.

Anyone else? [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/woot.gif[/img]
[/quote]

In the church my family attended, you "worked your way up" from an angel as a toddler, then to Wise Men, etc. The funny thing is, I can't remember being in any Nativity play other than when I was Mary, although I must have been. I have no idea why they picked me as Mary--maybe they figured I could be counted on to remember my lines. (Which I did.)

My blue veil--and a white gown like a habit--was more of a medium blue.

I got to wear a veil again (white this time) when I was confirmed, and I loved that veil, too. (In the Episcopal church, at least when I was growing up, there was no "First Communion" around age 7. Instead, a person didn't take communion until after they were confirmed, which was usually at about age 12 or 13, although adults might be confirmed too, at the same service. For confirmation we wore the white dresses and veils that are commonly associated with "First Communion" in the Catholic church.)

[laetitia crucis]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='09 July 2010 - 07:51 PM' timestamp='1278719470' post='2140197']
In the church my family attended, you "worked your way up" from an angel as a toddler, then to Wise Men, etc. The funny thing is, I can't remember being in any Nativity play other than when I was Mary, although I must have been. I have no idea why they picked me as Mary--maybe they figured I could be counted on to remember my lines. (Which I did.)

My blue veil--and a white gown like a habit--was more of a medium blue.

I got to wear a veil again (white this time) when I was confirmed, and I loved that veil, too. (In the Episcopal church, at least when I was growing up, there was no "First Communion" around age 7. Instead, a person didn't take communion until after they were confirmed, which was usually at about age 12 or 13, although adults might be confirmed too, at the same service. For confirmation we wore the white dresses and veils that are commonly associated with "First Communion" in the Catholic church.)
[/quote]

I've always loved seeing people wear the veils and white dresses for First Communions! My first year teaching CCD I was assigned to the "First Communion" class. When I walked in on the Big Day I was just... both astounded and tickled pink seeing all the little girls dressed in mini-wedding dresses -- with veils, veils-with-tiaras, gloves, etc. I admit, I got a little verklempt.

I've always wanted to wear a wedding dress with wedding veil -- what girl doesn't, right? -- and to think, when you're a youngin' receiving Jesus for the first time (or being Confirmed), you get to wear this! How cool is that?

Hmmm... so, this leads me to ask: In our PPC, can we wear wedding dresses w/wedding veil right before we're invested in our novice habits? Pretty please with a cherry on top?

[vee]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='09 July 2010 - 06:42 PM' timestamp='1278718930' post='2140193']
I like all the pictures you posted! [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif[/img]

I was going to tell Vee that we'd use a less dour picture of St. Thomas Aquinas if she would give us one of a smiling St. Teresa. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif[/img] But, that is unfair because I think it was the custom to paint religious figures with serious faces. I'm not sure exactly why, but one guess might be that a painting of a laughing saint might be considered irreverent.
[/quote]
Actually the expressions in icons are in a style called brightsadness. Please google for more info.

Edited to add.... this sounds a bit silly but one of the things I want to see heaven is all the saints, Teresa in particular, and Jesus, Mary etc SMILING like this

Edited July 10, 2010 by vee8

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='laetitia crucis' date='09 July 2010 - 06:57 PM' timestamp='1278719879' post='2140201']
I've always loved seeing people wear the veils and white dresses for First Communions! My first year teaching CCD I was assigned to the "First Communion" class. When I walked in on the Big Day I was just... both astounded and tickled pink seeing all the little girls dressed in mini-wedding dresses -- with veils, veils-with-tiaras, gloves, etc. I admit, I got a little verklempt.

I've always wanted to wear a wedding dress with wedding veil -- what girl doesn't, right? -- and to think, when you're a youngin' receiving Jesus for the first time (or being Confirmed), you get to wear this! How cool is that?

Hmmm... so, this leads me to ask: In our PPC, can we wear wedding dresses w/wedding veil right before we're invested in our novice habits? Pretty please with a cherry on top? [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/D.gif[/img]
[/quote]

I don't see why not. I like the custom. It gives a very strong "bride of Christ" imagery to the clothing ceremony, IMO. It's funny, when I first heard of it (many years ago), it sounded strange. But, now that I've seen pictures/videos on the Internet of clothing ceremonies where the postulants enter wearing wedding dresses, I find it very moving.

We'll have to see how others feel. I know that not all Orders do this, but I don't know if women joining those Orders don't like this custom, or if they are simply happy to follow the tradition of their particular Order and community. We'll find a way to make it all work.

[vee]

[quote name='laetitia crucis' date='09 July 2010 - 06:57 PM' timestamp='1278719879' post='2140201']
I've always loved seeing people wear the veils and white dresses for First Communions! My first year teaching CCD I was assigned to the "First Communion" class. When I walked in on the Big Day I was just... both astounded and tickled pink seeing all the little girls dressed in mini-wedding dresses -- with veils, veils-with-tiaras, gloves, etc. I admit, I got a little verklempt.

I've always wanted to wear a wedding dress with wedding veil -- what girl doesn't, right? -- and to think, when you're a youngin' receiving Jesus for the first time (or being Confirmed), you get to wear this! How cool is that?

Hmmm... so, this leads me to ask: In our PPC, can we wear wedding dresses w/wedding veil right before we're invested in our novice habits? Pretty please with a cherry on top?
[/quote]

I don't like my First Communion pics because I looked like a dork! I had glasses and the style my mom picked for my hair was terrible! My Mom kept my veil though so maybe I can use it again for something in the future but it needs to be reworked a bit because the fake flowers on the comb are good for a 7 yo but not when you add like twenty years onto that! I'm all for wedding dresses in the PPC! is there any woman in existance that doesnt want to wear one for mr perfect? Ok I had thought I'd wear one in a regular wedding to a great guy but for a kind of spiritual /symbolic union to Jesus..... yeah I could do that too!

[vee]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='09 July 2010 - 04:55 PM' timestamp='1278712543' post='2140138']
One of my endless questions: Do we know that Mary wore a blue veil? Okay, I know I'm on controversial ground, and the issue of tradition versus writings in the Bible, and writings from others who lived in that time. I'm not questioning the tradition of Mary wearing a blue veil--I just don't know where it came from. I have NO idea what the normal dress was for young married women in that place and time.

That said, black veils have other lovely meanings, such as being symbolic of being dead to worldly things. Other Orders choose white for purity. But, I can understand the feeling of feeling as if you are not worthy to dress like Mary. That's a humility I have a lot of respect for. On the other hand, I can understand Orders that wear blue veils to show their love and respect for Mary, and as a constant reminder to strive to be like Mary.

I'd forgotten, but I also played Mary (wearing a blue veil) in the Christmas pageant one year. I loved that veil. Maybe that's where I got my love of veils. As a little girl, I used to wear a petticoat on my head as a veil, but it alternated between being a veil for a bride or wearing a veil like a nun. I was confused, even as a child! [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif[/img] (And, at that time, I didn't know that nuns/Sisters were considered "brides of Christ" or know that in some Orders, postulants wear bridal gowns in their clothing ceremony.)
[/quote]

Hmmm I have no idea how blue became the color commonly associated with Mary, maybe it was from some apparition

That's awesome you got to play Mary too! Former Mary actresses group hug At least you wore a petticoat on your head playing pretend and not pettipants! Wearing pettipants on ones head would be something i'd do I don't remember playing nun as a child because i had never seen a real life habited nun so it wasn't on my radar at all.