The Ppc

[MarieLynn]

I have been reading this topic with interest over the months, and after much laughter and a lot of thought., I would like to apply to enter the Ppc's, as I feel they are the ideal Comminity for me, and my lack of talents.

If you need a Laundress, I would like to volunteer my services, as I looove washing!!!

If I am accepted, could I please have the name of Sister Sunlight Soap of the Blue Rinse?

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='MarieLynn' timestamp='1284608534' post='2173691']
I have been reading this topic with interest over the months, and after much laughter and a lot of thought., I would like to apply to enter the Ppc's, as I feel they are the ideal Comminity for me, and my lack of talents.

If you need a Laundress, I would like to volunteer my services, as I looove washing!!!

If I am accepted, could I please have the name of Sister Sunlight Soap of the Blue Rinse?
[/quote]

You sound like one of my sisters, we call her the laundry queen because 'laundry is her life' and she can get a stain out of anything!

I don't know the application process for the PPC but it sounds like Iggy has a lot of pull here - get on her good side!

That being said, I do wonder how the PPC governs itself and who can vote for what etc...... is it total anarchy or is there a plan??

[linnie]

I think that its basically planned anarchy.

Of course, we all only want the very best for each other, egos are never an issue, and perfect peace reigns always.


peace,

Sr. Benedicta of the Little Red Scooter, RN

Edited September 16, 2010 by linnie

[krissylou]

[quote name='MarieLynn' timestamp='1284608534' post='2173691']
If you need a Laundress, I would like to volunteer my services, as I looove washing!!!

If I am accepted, could I please have the name of Sister Sunlight Soap of the Blue Rinse?
[/quote]

Accepted immediately!!!

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='krissylou' timestamp='1284647952' post='2173777']
Accepted immediately!!!
[/quote]

Agreed!!!!

Anyone who loves washing is already a saint. However, we promise not to martyr you so that that becomes fact.

At one time there was talk of a council to run the community. There will probably still be one.

One night in VS chat, a certain someone who is named after a saint whose feast day is July 31 (also her birthday) was made the Superior (she may be a mother sometimes, but not that kind)--I kinda like Prioress, myself--by a quorum of members (give or take five or six). She was elected unanimously and did not ask for the job, or even suggest herself as a candidate (apparently to conspire to be Superior is one of the worst sins you can commit). However, I cannot say more, because what happens in chat, stays in chat.

We thought it was only fitting that cloistered/semi-cloistered/active Catholic community, with a Benedictine/Carmelite/Dominican/Franciscan/Other charism, should have a Superior who is not Catholic. We're sure the local Bishop will be thrilled and accept us right away.

Plus, if Nunsense is novice mistress, there has to be SOMEONE to keep all the postulants from becoming Carmelites!! LOL Also, at minimum, the others on the council will represent each of the various charisms etc. However, all of this will not keep it from being an anarchy. So far, I don't think any reasonable (or even unreasonable) request has been turned down, except that there will be no pictures of St. Therese in the Library or anything allowed that disturbs the sleep of the Prioress. Books about St. Therese are perfectly acceptable.

There are many very important jobs still open, including that of choir director, and a few others that I can't think of right now because I know nothing about running a monastery--which apparently makes me the one most qualified for the job. (Ask the non-quorum, they elected me before I could even type "No.")

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' timestamp='1284650967' post='2173788']
Agreed!!!!

Anyone who loves washing is already a saint. However, we promise not to martyr you so that that becomes fact.

At one time there was talk of a council to run the community. There will probably still be one.

One night in VS chat, a certain someone who is named after a saint whose feast day is July 31 (also her birthday) was made the Superior (she may be a mother sometimes, but not that kind)--I kinda like Prioress, myself--by a quorum of members (give or take five or six). She was elected unanimously and did not ask for the job, or even suggest herself as a candidate (apparently to conspire to be Superior is one of the worst sins you can commit). However, I cannot say more, because what happens in chat, stays in chat.

We thought it was only fitting that cloistered/semi-cloistered/active Catholic community, with a Benedictine/Carmelite/Dominican/Franciscan/Other charism, should have a Superior who is not Catholic. We're sure the local Bishop will be thrilled and accept us right away.

Plus, if Nunsense is novice mistress, there has to be SOMEONE to keep all the postulants from becoming Carmelites!! LOL Also, at minimum, the others on the council will represent each of the various charisms etc. However, all of this will not keep it from being an anarchy. So far, I don't think any reasonable (or even unreasonable) request has been turned down, except that there will be no pictures of St. Therese in the Library or anything allowed that disturbs the sleep of the Prioress. Books about St. Therese are perfectly acceptable.

There are many very important jobs still open, including that of choir director, and a few others that I can't think of right now because I know nothing about running a monastery--which apparently makes me the one most qualified for the job. (Ask the non-quorum, they elected me before I could even type "No.")
[/quote]


Well, I don't know what kind of Prioress you are going to be because I haven't seen a copy of our Rule and Constitutions yet, but the Prioress where I am going takes everything to Chapter for a vote unless it is an emergency and there isn't time. Not all of my Carmels have been this way, but it is certainly a very loving way to do it - no opportunity for power to corrupt the one in charge.

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1284684396' post='2173958']
Well, I don't know what kind of Prioress you are going to be because I haven't seen a copy of our Rule and Constitutions yet, but the Prioress where I am going takes everything to Chapter for a vote unless it is an emergency and there isn't time. Not all of my Carmels have been this way, but it is certainly a very loving way to do it - no opportunity for power to corrupt the one in charge.
[/quote]

I like that. You have obviously been called to somewhat unusual, but wonderful Carmel. I can see you are thriving already, just from your live-in. It's another illustration to me that there are many ways that God calls people live a life of service to him. And, while there may are some obviously "wrong" ways, there are an almost unlimited number of "right" ways because people have so many different gifts and needs.

A question that I should know, but don't, because I expect there is some difference in terminology between Orders. Who is the "chapter" in your Community? All the fully professed nuns or a smaller group? Is there a "council?" And, because Carmels, by definition, are to remain small, how does the hierarchy work? (If there is even a "usual" among Carmels.)

I have always worried about the effect on the community of the power of a Superior, and how it is exercised by each individual Superior.

Even assuming there is no actual corruption, or even such things as having "favorites," etc., in my working life, I experienced a number of effects of having a very strong person, however intelligent and sometimes wise, in charge for a long time. At the time she retired, my former boss had been in her job as the head of Research for 25 years, and the group grew from about 5 people to about 40-50 by the time she left. Two effects I noticed that had nothing to do with corruption. The first was that the manager, like anyone else, had things she was interested in, and things she was not. And, not surprisingly, the group tended to spend more time, energy, and training on the areas the manager found most interesting--since obviously, no one can do everything, particularly when it comes to Research. So, when the new boss came in, he found that the group was exceptionally strong in certain areas and skills, and weaker in others. Not mismanagement--just the effect of having one boss for so long.

The second, might be called mismanagement by some--but there were no bad intentions, it was more personal style. My former boss was very much a micromanager, and we were expected to consult her about virtually everything and get her approval. When the new boss came in, he was frustrated that we would ask him what he saw as unnecessary questions. He'd say, "You've been doing your job for 10 years, make a decision." Under the prior boss, if we made virtually any decision without asking, we would be called on the carpet for doing so. And, even when she approved something, she was so involved in so many details that, although her memory was incredible, sometimes she'd forget or change her mind regarding what she'd earlier approved, and we'd be called on the carpet anyway. I could easily see that happening if the Superior had a micromanager style. Personally, I felt that while we all benefited from her input (she was incredibly bright), the manager's style also kept people from learning to take on new responsibilities or introducing new ideas, and many of her employees lost self-confience, even if they were very skilled in their jobs.

So, I could see that there would be likely be unintended effects of a very strong Superior, even she was a truly holy, wonderful person, especially if the Superior was elected for life.

The PPC has no rules and constitutions, and probably never will, because when we get to the "hard decisions," such as how the Liturgy of the Hours would be chanted or sung, there are so many differences between Orders, and even the personal preferences of members, that to try to come to any kind of decision, no matter how flexible the rule, would probably be impossible. So, we have not addressed the truly difficult decisions, simply saying, "We'll work it out." That's a luxury an imaginary community has that a real Community doesn't have.

Heck, we have never even come up with the design of our chapel, except that it would have a cloistered portion. But, how exactly we would handle the fact that we would have both cloistered and non-cloistered members we've left to, "We'll work it out."

Despite the lack of a Rule and Constitutions, it's pretty clear that my "election" as Prioress was illegal and nonbinding. Beside the fact that we were far short of a quorum of members (however a member is defined), there is some question of whether one of those voting was under the influence of alcohol. LOL (I'm lying.) However, it WAS very late at night.

I suspect I would make a terrible Prioress in many ways. But, in a backhanded way, that almost makes me a good candidate, because I would have no option but to rely completely on God and my Sisters.

So far, it has been easy to take a role as one of the leaders, because, in an imaginary community where money is not a significant issue, the answer is virtually always "Yes." In some cases, it is a compromise "Yes" because some members have opposite needs and desires--but, so far, we've been able to come up with compromises that fill both sets of needs and desires.

So far, the only thing I am aware of that I have completely nixed (besides anything that interferes with my sleep) is having a very old Italian stone chapel as one of the chapels within the enclosure. Even if the donor approved the extremely high cost, I strongly suspect that the act of transplanting an old chapel stone by stone to some other location would take away what makes old stone chapels so wonderful, that is, the spirit and faith and prayers of all those who came before, that remains in very air of the chapel. Since we've pretty much decided that the community needs to be in North America and not in Italy for any number of good reasons (although the exact location has never been agreed on--or even discussed much), we have to create our own spirit and faith, and bring that to our chapels. Plus, having such a chapel could be perceived as an ostentation that would send the wrong message. If the chapel were about to be destroyed to build an office building, that might be a different matter. But, it's similar to when they moved the old Tower(?) Bridge (all I know is that it wasn't London Bridge) to Arizona--it just doesn't fit. I keep pushing simplicity, and architecture that is beautiful, without being overly modern or utilitarian, and fits the landscape, but I since I don't have any good examples of how that has been done in practice, we've never actually decided on the architecture, except that the Benedictines want a somewhat traditional cloister as part of the enclosure, and I heartily endorse that.

I've thought, in my spare moments, of drafting a post of the pros and cons of myself as superior, but I don't think anyone cares that much (and I'm not sure I do, either), and I suspect it's not necessary anyway. We'll find a way to make it work. Our Lady of Peace and St. Joseph are watching over us, and will make sure that the community's decisions are wise. (Random factoid: I actually searched the Internet and found a Rosary Center of our Lady of Peace and had L-C use it as the center of one of the Rosaries she made for me. It's gorgeous. For me, personally, I love the image of Our Lady of Peace--inner peace, peace in the community, and peace in the world.)

Edited September 17, 2010 by IgnatiusofLoyola

[TeresaBenedicta]

Awww, this thread reminds me of JT now.

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' timestamp='1284701517' post='2174009']
Awww, this thread reminds me of JT now.
[/quote]


Yeah..... *sigh*

[AccountDeleted]

Mother Iggy - I think you make the perfect superior - maturity, experience and a deep love for Our Lord. And you are able to bring out the best in others. What more could anyone ask?

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' timestamp='1284692631' post='2173986']
A question that I should know, but don't, because I expect there is some difference in terminology between Orders. Who is the "chapter" in your Community? All the fully professed nuns or a smaller group? Is there a "council?" And, because Carmels, by definition, are to remain small, how does the hierarchy work? (If there is even a "usual" among Carmels.)
[/quote]

In Carmel, only the Solemnly Professed nuns can vote, and when they get together to vote, it is called a Chapter. In my community now, they have other, community meetings where a vote is not required, and the Simple Professed also attend these meetings. I think it is a nice way of being inclusive. When I was a visitor there, I did not participate in these meetings, since they were for the 'family' only. Different Carmels do this a little differently but similarly.

As for the 'hierarchy', once again, because of their autonomous nature, each Carmel lives this out slightly differently. I have been in Carmels where the Prioress is treated almost as a queen, with everyone standing every time she enters or leaves a room, kneeling when she speaks to one, etc. On the other hand, I have also been in Carmels where the Prioress is treated basically the same as any other member of the community, perhaps even as a 'servant' of the community in that she is ultimately responsible for making sure that everything and everyone is okay. The first way has the romance and tradition of hundreds of years but the second way actually seems to instil more love and less fear in everyone.

I think that being a Superior for a religious community is an awesome responsibility because God will ultimately hold that person accountable for all that was done in His name for the souls under her care. She should be very holy, and strive for this more than anything else. After all, she walks a razor's edge where she could fall into vanity, pride, ambition and power if she doesn't remember that she is there to serve God first and then all of her daughters. I think it was St Benedict who said that a superior should strive be loved more than feared. In the Rule of St Albert, the attitude of the religious is also addressed, saying that they should serve their Prior[ess] in humble reverence. I think that the danger for communities who are 'too liberal', the reverence part gets forgotten. So it is a fine balance on both sides of the equation.

[quote]I have always worried about the effect on the community of the power of a Superior, and how it is exercised by each individual Superior.

Even assuming there is no actual corruption, or even such things as having "favorites," etc., in my working life, I experienced a number of effects of having a very strong person, however intelligent and sometimes wise, in charge for a long time. At the time she retired, my former boss had been in her job as the head of Research for 25 years, and the group grew from about 5 people to about 40-50 by the time she left. Two effects I noticed that had nothing to do with corruption. The first was that the manager, like anyone else, had things she was interested in, and things she was not. And, not surprisingly, the group tended to spend more time, energy, and training on the areas the manager found most interesting--since obviously, no one can do everything, particularly when it comes to Research. So, when the new boss came in, he found that the group was exceptionally strong in certain areas and skills, and weaker in others. Not mismanagement--just the effect of having one boss for so long.

The second, might be called mismanagement by some--but there were no bad intentions, it was more personal style. My former boss was very much a micromanager, and we were expected to consult her about virtually everything and get her approval. When the new boss came in, he was frustrated that we would ask him what he saw as unnecessary questions. He'd say, "You've been doing your job for 10 years, make a decision." Under the prior boss, if we made virtually any decision without asking, we would be called on the carpet for doing so. And, even when she approved something, she was so involved in so many details that, although her memory was incredible, sometimes she'd forget or change her mind regarding what she'd earlier approved, and we'd be called on the carpet anyway. I could easily see that happening if the Superior had a micromanager style. Personally, I felt that while we all benefited from her input (she was incredibly bright), the manager's style also kept people from learning to take on new responsibilities or introducing new ideas, and many of her employees lost self-confience, even if they were very skilled in their jobs.

So, I could see that there would be likely be unintended effects of a very strong Superior, even she was a truly holy, wonderful person, especially if the Superior was elected for life.[/quote]

As in anything, this is a real danger in religious life as well. I have seen communities where the nuns are almost like children because the Prioress has done all of their thinking for them for so long. This is especially the case when a superior has been in office for a long time with complete power... yes.

A truly greater teacher/leader/boss is one who brings out the full potential of those being served, and helps them to achieve individuality within community. not an easy job, but I have seen some good superiors who work hard at this.

[quote]The PPC has no rules and constitutions, and probably never will, because when we get to the "hard decisions," such as how the Liturgy of the Hours would be chanted or sung, there are so many differences between Orders, and even the personal preferences of members, that to try to come to any kind of decision, no matter how flexible the rule, would probably be impossible. So, we have not addressed the truly difficult decisions, simply saying, "We'll work it out." That's a luxury an imaginary community has that a real Community doesn't have.
[/quote]

Actually I think that my new community tries to do this as well. It takes a lot longer because they tend to take things 'into their hearts to ponder' for awhile before they make any decisions. They will discuss and then go away and do research (the librarian even likes to use the Internet for research on some issues) before coming back to discuss some more. Finally they all pray about it before taking a vote. I haven't seen it in action myself, but this is what I have been told by different sisters.


[quote]
I've thought, in my spare moments, of drafting a post of the pros and cons of myself as superior, but I don't think anyone cares that much (and I'm not sure I do, either), and I suspect it's not necessary anyway. We'll find a way to make it work. Our Lady of Peace and St. Joseph are watching over us, and will make sure that the community's decisions are wise. (Random factoid: I actually searched the Internet and found a Rosary Center of our Lady of Peace and had L-C use it as the center of one of the Rosaries she made for me. It's gorgeous. For me, personally, I love the image of Our Lady of Peace--inner peace, peace in the community, and peace in the world.)
[/quote]

I think that having you as a superior is a very good idea because you have made it clear that you are not discerning religious life. This means you won't be leaving to enter anywhere, abandoning the PPC to its fate As long as you don't give in to your desires to run away after some online fight, I can't think of any better superior! Next time you feel so inclined, remember your responsibilities here (imagined or not) and hang tough.

I think that I will have to withdraw my request to be the Novice Mistress though, knowing as I do that my term will be short lived when I enter Carmel. Therefore I would like to nominate Theresa Benedicta for the Office! She can form the newbies as they arrive at phatmass VS and discern their talents and abilities before assigning them to some useful work! You, as superior, would have to approve all of her choices of course.

PPC forever

[HopefulBride]

Dear Mother Iggy,

I respectfully request entrance to the PPC. Please let me in

Edited September 17, 2010 by HopefulBride

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='HopefulBride' timestamp='1284714863' post='2174038']
Dear Mother Iggy,

I respectfully request entrance to the PPC. Please let me in
[/quote]


You are VERY welcome to join us! (BTW--I'm not Mother Iggy--I'm going to stay Sister Iggy, (or, more formally, Sister Rosary Bede of the Late Rising) whether I am Prioress or not. I THINK some Superiors do not use the title "Mother." If I'm wrong--please correct me. And, since my "election" was illegal and nonbinding, I'm not sure if I'm the Prioress, anyway. But, Prioress or not, welcome!

Random Note: "Sister Rosary Bede" started out as a joke name, but also showed my respect for the Venerable Bede, who has always been one of my favorite saints. But, ironically, I spent my summer buying Rosary beads for L-C to use to make Rosaries. I don't make Rosaries myself--just buy the beads, centers, crucifixes, medals, etc for L-C. So, the name "Sister Rosary Bede" has proved surprisingly prophetic.

What would you like to do in the community? And, is there anything special you would LOVE to have in a community--virtually all the time we've been able to accomodate reasonable requests (and, some unreasonable ones. LOL).

And, what name would you like? Some people have picked out "fun names," others serious names, and some have both.

Edited September 17, 2010 by IgnatiusofLoyola

[vee]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' timestamp='1284733107' post='2174064']
(BTW--I'm not Mother Iggy--I'm going to stay Sister Iggy,

[/quote]

Whatever you say Mother Iggy!!!

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='vee8' timestamp='1284734200' post='2174067']
Whatever you say Mother Iggy!!!
[/quote]

Did you just call me a mother?

You Carmelites are so stubborn!!! Someone will be coming to your cell while you are chanting the LOTH to glue yet another picture of St Thomas Aquinas to your wall--or maybe St. Ignatius of Loyola for a change--assuming there is any free wall space left. (Although there are no female Jesuits, in my role as "Other" in the list of charisms, I may designate myself the community's representative of Ignatian spirituality--not that I know very much about it--yet.)

[vee]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' timestamp='1284734976' post='2174069']
Did you just call me a mother?
[/quote]

No ma'am! errr... mum
[quote]You Carmelites are so stubborn!!! Someone will be coming to your cell while you are chanting the LOTH to glue yet another picture of St Thomas Aquinas to your wall--or maybe St. Ignatius of Loyola for a change--[/quote] I looooooooove St Ignatius !!