The Ppc

[laetitia crucis]

I think as members of the PPC, we should all use this emoticon: [IMG]http://i802.photobucket.com/albums/yy305/laetitia_crucis/Random/nunemoticon.gif[/IMG]

Please, feel free to use that very image URL - it's from my photobucket account. SPREAD THE EMOTICON ALL THROUGH PHATMASS!!!!

:

March on, my dear Sisters!!!!

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

We've talked back and forth on the PPC thread about whether it is better to have a veil that covers the hair or shows a little hair.

Personally, I'm in favor of what I call a "simpler" veil, that is, a veil without a wimple etc. because it seems less difficult to keep up, more comfortable, and with fewer "parts" to clean and iron.

But, the argument against this has been that some PPC Sisters want a veil that doesn't show their hair.

I was on the Summit Dominicans site, and I suddenly realized that, although they wear a "simpler" veil, they wear it so that none of their hair shows. (The very simple postulant veil does show hair, but I think that is different. The Summit Dominicans postulant outfit is not the most flattering (and it has no cape!), but it does look VERY comfortable, as do the habits of the novices and professed nuns.)

When looking through VS today, I also noticed that the Sisters of Reparation novice veil is the same way. It is a "simpler" veil (no wimple) but their hair does not show.

So, perhaps this is a compromise. The PPC Sisters could wear a "simpler" veil, but design it in such a way that no hair shows.

Reactions?

BTW--Personally, I like veils for postulants, too, as we've already discussed, even if they are very simple and not long. And capes! Actually, most PPC Sisters seem to also want to also wear capes as novices and professed Sisters, which would be lovely. Personally, I may not wear a cape, a bit too fussy for me, and I'd be constantly getting the cape sleeves into my food, even with my official PPC blue refectory apron. For myself, I'm leaning toward the habit of the Summit Dominican novices, except with a PPC blue scapular, to show that I am a full member of the community, yet different, since I will not be making the vows of a professed Sister.

Random note: For Vee8, and others who may want to consider being fully cloistered, we would need to work out the details for this, and how we could fit it in with the fact that most of the PPC community will be semi-cloistered or active. Or, since it won't be a REAL Carmel, could you live with being semi-cloistered? That is, being essentially cloistered, but perhaps without as much "hiddenness" as the Carmels. Because the PPC rules will be a compromise, the rules would have a hard time meeting all the requirements for papal or community enclosure, while still accomodating those Sisters who want to be semi-cloistered or active. But, certainly, if a Sister preferred never to be photographed, to not meet the public without a barrier, and to be "hidden" during Mass, those things could be accomodated easily. However, with its "compromises" it would be very difficult for the PPC to meet either the 1990 or 1991 rules of the Carmelites. Similar thoughts for those whose primary spirituality is another cloistered Order, although many cloistered Orders do not seem to be quite as "hidden" as the Carmelites.

[color="#000080"][b]If any of you have wondered what I've meant by "PPC blue" it would be a color very similar to this text, although maybe not exactly the same. This color is a compromise, and is meant to honor Mary, and also to be somewhat cheerful. We're still thinking a white habit, with a white cape, and a PPC blue scapular. Novices would wear a white veil Fully professed sisters would continue to wear a white habit and white veil (for purity, and also as an expression that we are "perpetual novices"--always learning), but they would have a PPC blue band next to the face. Postulant outfits have not been decided on.
Personally, I would have preferred habits of [color="#ffff00"]this color [/color]or [color="#00ffff"]this color[/color], but I was outvoted. [/b][/color]

[linnie]

I agree with the "simple" veil. Wimples look so very uncomfortable. I'd feel like I was choking all the time. Capes look lovely, maybe we could treat them with a stain retardant for those of us who are rather klutzy

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='MithLuin' timestamp='1281336948' post='2154547']
My apologies for dropping in late to this thread. At some point, I believe someone suggested hobbit hole hermitages? If not, consider them suggested! And if there are already pictures in the thread...my sincere apologies.

[/quote]

MithLuin--I LOVE the pictures! (I deleted them from my quote for space reasons, so anyone who is interested, just look up a few posts in this thread.)

I apologize that I forgot to formally invite you to join us. We would LOVE to have you! In my ignorance, I did not realize you were married, so I wanted to emphasize that married women are welcome as full members of the community. There are at least a couple of other married women (such as Linnie) who are already members of the community.

Since we would not ask or now expect you to desert your husband and children(?) (and I assume that neither you nor your husband would want that anyway), we are planning to have homes for the families of married members just outside the monastery walls, with husbands and children very welcome (although perhaps not inside the cloister/enclosure, except at certain times. We've never had a lot of discussion about what would make the most sense for married members--or what they would prefer).

You, of course, could have a family-size hobbit house (or tree house) if you'd like--or a hermitage for yourself, for those times when you need an escape--or a regular house. Also, as I posted somewhere in an earlier post, although we'd like the monastery to be located somewhere beautiful, quiet, and peaceful, we also don't want to be so far from a decently large city for those Sisters who want an active apostolate. We also want to make sure that spouses have sufficent opportunity to find jobs they like. (Since this is an imaginary, idealistic community--spouses will not only be able to find jobs they like, but jobs they LOVE.)

Also, as I've posted before, many of us are naturally "academic-minded" so one important goal in locating the monastery would be that it would be near a top-notch university, for those of us who wanted to go for further degrees or to teach.

We are far from figuring out exactly where the monastery would be located (and we probably never will), but we've been assuming that the monastery would get at least some snow. Although, since it is an imaginary idealistic monastery, it would not get snow (or bitter cold) for half the year (as it does in Chicago, where I live), but snow in December is always welcome (as long as it's not too much--we're so picky! LOL) Similarly, while the weather would be good in summer, it would not get much above 80 degrees--that's my selfish request. I (and my health) don't handle really hot, humid weather very well. However, unlike most of California (where I grew up) I've found I like having some rain in summer. It keeps things very green and beautiful, and helps water the garden so that we don't have to water as much. It also means that water shortages are less likely. However, I DO miss Redwoods trees. <sigh>

So, if you are interested, feel free to add your own suggestions, preferences, and ideas. We are FAR from having every detail worked out. And, I suspect that some members, such as Sister Cook, whose true joy in life is cooking, and who cooks wonderful meals that are also healthy and not overly expensive or lavish (except on feast days, of course) will remain products of our idealistic imaginations.

Edited August 19, 2010 by IgnatiusofLoyola

[AccountDeleted]

Ok - I finally got around to reading (most of) this thread. How cute!


I don't know if I can join two religious communities at the same time (the Carmelites and the PPC) but I love all the ideas and certainly admire the way everyone has been working together to give the best of everything to everyone!

I'm kewl with the habit, whatever that is, and love the fact that some can be cloistered and others not. And I would love to hear the Gregorian chant, as long as I don't have to ever sing solo! I can only sing when there is someone standing next to me who knows how to keep tune, then I can follow her. I would like to use the Grail Psalter if we are going to do Gregorian - it is almost a necessity really since the LOH isn't designed for it. We could use the UK breviary for the Little Hours if we don't chant these??

For my part, I want to be in the cloister, with lots of time to pray, especially some time alone with Jesus but I am happy to take my turn in the kitchen (if you all take out life insurance first), the garden, the laundry, the HO or any other office that needs doing. I would like to volunteer for Novice Mistress if this office hasn't been taken, but I am also great with computers, love books and animals and can even sew a little, so I think I can be useful.



I want a large, plain Cross in our cell please and lots of white handkerchiefs for all the crying.

I would like my name to be Sister Tear-esita Ecstatica of the Holy Cross please.

So, may I enter???

[krissylou]

Oooh, with what you've learned from your most recent Carmel visit, I think you'd be a great novice mistress.

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

Yes, you'd be an outstanding novice mistress. You are both holy and have also experienced the difficulties of religious life. If we find ourselves with too many members going around crying holy tears all the time, the community has ME as a balance..

Not to mention, we need as many members as possible who actually know what religious life is like!

Speaking of Carmelite tendencies, holy tears and ecstacies may be freely engaged in, as long as they are not like that saint, whose name my mind refuses to remember, that used to wake up all her Sisters at night to share her ecstacies. Maybe if she had asked her Sisters beforehand if they wanted to be woken up, that would be different, but she just strikes me as rude, not holy.

Lately my sleep cycle has been totally messed up, and it not only makes me cranky, but I can't get anything done, because I'm asleep during the day, and awake at night. I should just move to Australia immediately, because my body is currently living in the same time zone as Australia.

One important rule of the Community is that Sisters having ecstacies must do so without disturbing other Sisters, especially me. I wear ear plugs, but I am still a VERY light sleeper. I'll wake up if I even THINK you are about to make noise, however spiritual. And, if I go without sleep, first I get very cranky, then I get even more sick than usual. So, my request is not to due to my feelings about St. Therese, and others of her ilk, but due to genuine health concerns. When the weather is good, I may live in a hermitage, so that my health issues don't interfere with the religious expression of my Sisters. But, in the winter, for safety reasons, I plan to live inside, plus, for some reason I don't entirely understand, I REALLY would LOVE a cell. I've finally reached a place in my life where to give up material possessions and to wear a habit and to live in a very spare cell would not be giving up anything, but sounds like exactly what I want. Some young women hate the thought of cutting their hair--I think mine is just a pain, cut it off, please! However, my cell may need extra soundproofing, or be located at the end of the row. Plus, as I have mentioned before, it's really safer if I have my own bathroom so that I don't have to walk down a dark hall at night.

Note to Nunsense: Please do not read that last paragraph or my "cell-envy" as an indication that I am called to religious life. Obedience would be an enormous barrier, plus I have made a vow to my two chronically ill cats that I will take care of them, so where I go, my cats go. Period. I've made a vow and I refuse to break it. We won't even mention my health issues. Any religious community that would accept me as an active member should be immediately examined by the appropriate governing body for serious concerns as to whether it has lost its mind. Not to mention, that, if "Mr. Right" rode into the enclosure on his steed, I'd be gone immediately, without looking back. No question. I have come to understand and respect my fellow VS'ers who are called to be brides of Christ, but I am not one of them.

So, with that totally unrelated, and very self-centered speech--Nunsense, you are heartily welcomed, and I LOVE your new name!

Edited September 10, 2010 by IgnatiusofLoyola

[krissylou]

We already discussed that when it comes to food preferences we're going with the Benedictine Rule of "making two main dishes -- if you don't like one, eat the other. If you don't like them both, you're too picky. Offer it up."

When it comes to real intolerances -- allergies, celiac disease, or the like -- I would like to decree that Sister Cook can just magically handle everything. It is not even a strain on her. When I was a kid I had a book of stories about the saints and one of the saints was a kitchen maid and one morning had to choose between going to daily Mass and getting the bread baked, which was her job. She went to Mass. Kitchen maids are kind of supposed to be doing their job in the kitchen, so she was likely going to be coming home to a heap of trouble. But no worries, she came back to find the bread out of the oven and piping hot, as some angels came down to help her out.

[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/angel.gif[/img]

Those angels are helping Sister Cook out all the time. Any concerns about cross-contamination are handled impeccably. It simply isn't a problem.

It would be very very hard for a community to be able to handle a member with these dietary requirements. But, thanks to the angels helping out Sister Cook, we can do so just fine.

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='krissylou' timestamp='1284253301' post='2172088']
We already discussed that when it comes to food preferences we're going with the Benedictine Rule of "making two main dishes -- if you don't like one, eat the other. If you don't like them both, you're too picky. Offer it up."

When it comes to real intolerances -- allergies, celiac disease, or the like -- I would like to decree that Sister Cook can just magically handle everything. It is not even a strain on her. When I was a kid I had a book of stories about the saints and one of the saints was a kitchen maid and one morning had to choose between going to daily Mass and getting the bread baked, which was her job. She went to Mass. Kitchen maids are kind of supposed to be doing their job in the kitchen, so she was likely going to be coming home to a heap of trouble. But no worries, she came back to find the bread out of the oven and piping hot, as some angels came down to help her out.

[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/angel.gif[/img]

Those angels are helping Sister Cook out all the time. Any concerns about cross-contamination are handled impeccably. It simply isn't a problem.

It would be very very hard for a community to be able to handle a member with these dietary requirements. But, thanks to the angels helping out Sister Cook, we can do so just fine.
[/quote]

Well, in my new community, we take turns as Sister Cook, a different sister each day, so everyone gets to practice mortification at some time or another through the cooking of others, and they will all have something to offer up when it's my turn! I just can't cook.

One sister told me that when she was cook, she was advised that a particular sister couldn't eat fish (and we eat a lot of that), so she had to make other things for her. What no one remembered to tell her was that the only fish this sister could eat was salmon, and she loved it. Every week there was always a donation of a really nice salmon fillet, but of course this sister cook didn't give any to this other sister but made her something else instead. The sister who missed out on her favorite dish for years, never said anything! Talk about offering up something in secret!

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='krissylou' timestamp='1284253301' post='2172088']
[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/angel.gif[/img]

Those angels are helping Sister Cook out all the time. Any concerns about cross-contamination are handled impeccably. It simply isn't a problem.

It would be very very hard for a community to be able to handle a member with these dietary requirements. But, thanks to the angels helping out Sister Cook, we can do so just fine.
[/quote]

Do you know an employment agency or something where I could find an angel "Sister Cook?" I would be very nice to her, and give her lots of appreciation. If she wanted to go to Mass (assuming angels go to Mass) or if there was some important angel meeting in heaven she couldn't miss, I would totally understand.

But, especially when you don't love cooking to begin with, it's hard for me to live alone and eat well. Even getting to the grocery store is tough for me--and if I did cook, the energy it would take me to make dinner would use up my "energy quota" for the day (which is pretty small if standing up is involved). There are some services (really intended for those on diets) that provide three fresh meals a day, but they are also pretty expensive.

I'min also desperately need of a "housekeeper angel" but I don't want to seem like I'm being greedy. One thing that sounds heavenly about living in community is that meals would be provided (although I realize that community has its downsides, too).

BTW--The PPC never expected those in need of special diets to just "offer it up" if the food offered would make the Sister ill or wouldn't meet special medical needs, such as diabetes. I think we were mostly kidding in that conversaton, as one of our ongoing, but FAR from serious, "Carmelites" versus "Normal People" debates--like the time I threatened to glue pictures of St. Thomas Aquinas with nonremovable glue, over every available free wall and ceiling surface of the cells of Carmelites if they kept me awake at night with holy ecstacies, or wanted too many pictures or statues of St. Therese in the monastery. However, the "Sister Cook" we have dreamed up for the PPC--able to make healthy, outstanding meals, with a lot of variety, and also be a gifted pastry cook, all the while without luxury or ostentation, would either have to be an angel or a saint.

Edited September 13, 2010 by IgnatiusofLoyola

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' timestamp='1284348725' post='2172524']
Do you know an employment agency or something where I could find an angel "Sister Cook?" I would be very nice to her, and give her lots of appreciation. If she wanted to go to Mass (assuming angels go to Mass) or if there was some important angel meeting in heaven she couldn't miss, I would totally understand.

But, especially when you don't love cooking to begin with, it's hard for me to live alone and eat well. Even even getting to the grocery store is tough for me sometimes--and if I did, the energy it would take to make dinner would use up my "energy quota" for the day (which is pretty small if standing up is involved). There are some services (really intended for those on diets) that provide three fresh meals a day, but they are also pretty expensive.

I also desperately need of a "housekeeper angel" but I don't want to seem like I'm being greedy. One thing that sounds heavenly about living in community is that meals would be provided (although I realize that community has its downsides, too).

BTW--The PPC never expected those in need of special diets to just "offer it up" if the food offered would make the Sister ill or wouldn't meet special medical needs, such as diabetes. I think we were mostly kidding in that conversaton, as one of our ongoing, but FAR from serious, "Carmelites" versus "Normal People" debates--like the time I threatened to glue pictures of St. Thomas Aquinas with nonremovable glue, over every available free wall and ceiling surface of the cells of Carmelites if they kept me awake at night with holy ecstacies, or wanted too many pictures or statues of St. Therese in the monastery. However, the "Sister Cook" we have dreamed up for the PPC--able to make healthy, outstanding meals, with a lot of variety, and also be a gifted pastry cook, all the while without luxury or ostentation, would either have to be an angel or a saint.
[/quote]


One of the sisters in my new community used to be a pastry chef, and she makes the most delicious things with pastry. I made a quiche the other day in an attempt to teach myself how to cook, and the filling was beautiful but I definitely need lessons on making pastry, so I will have to ask Sr Pastry about this when I go back.

As for the ecstasies, I try to keep mine very quiet indeed, and do all my sobbing into a handkerchief, so don't worry about noise. I often wondered how St Mary Magdalene de Pazzi got away with all her shenanigans, but maybe she was an excellent pastry cook during the day?

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1284348940' post='2172528']
One of the sisters in my new community used to be a pastry chef, and she makes the most delicious things with pastry. I made a quiche the other day in an attempt to teach myself how to cook, and the filling was beautiful but I definitely need lessons on making pastry, so I will have to ask Sr Pastry about this when I go back.

As for the ecstasies, I try to keep mine very quiet indeed, and do all my sobbing into a handkerchief, so don't worry about noise. I often wondered how St Mary Magdalene de Pazzi got away with all her shenanigans, but maybe she was an excellent pastry cook during the day?

[/quote]

I don't think it is one of the "official signs that you have picked the right community" but having a Sister who used to be a pastry chef is sounds wonderful!!!! Quiche is difficult. I used to make quiche a lot, and while I was fine with the filling, I never quite figured out how to keep the crust from getting soggy.

It's amazing how different siblings can be. My (blood) sister has a way with pie crust that I have never mastered. She didn't get it from my mother--but she definitely has the "knack." She has now passed the gift on to her daughter (my niece).

And, it's funny how my brain manages to keep forgetting the name of St. Mary Magdalene de Pazzi. I will give the Church the benefit of the doubt that she was well worthy of sainthood, but I suspect she may have been a difficult Sister to live with. However, since, as far as I know (and I don't know much), she was not martyred by her Sisters in religion, if she wasn't a pastry chef, she had some other "gift" that saved her, thus the phrase, "saving grace."

Plus, I don't know if you saw all the fun pictures, but a hermitage, even for part of the time, is also an option. For myself, I think I'd love a hermitage in the woods surrounded by deer, and chipmunks, and all manner of wild animals. I used to live in a house in a very wooded area, and I loved it. I'm not so sure about a hermitage when the weather got very cold or icy, but for most of the year I'd love it.

Edited September 14, 2010 by IgnatiusofLoyola

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' timestamp='1284437086' post='2172918']
I don't think it is one of the "official signs that you have picked the right community" but having a Sister who used to be a pastry chef is sounds wonderful!!!! Quiche is difficult. I used to make quiche a lot, and while I was fine with the filling, I never quite figured out how to keep the crust from getting soggy.

It's amazing how different siblings can be. My (blood) sister has a way with pie crust that I have never mastered. She didn't get it from my mother--but she definitely has the "knack." She has now passed the gift on to her daughter (my niece).

And, it's funny how my brain manages to keep forgetting the name of St. Mary Magdalene de Pazzi. I will give the Church the benefit of the doubt that she was well worthy of sainthood, but I suspect she may have been a difficult Sister to live with. However, since, as far as I know (and I don't know much), she was not martyred by her Sisters in religion, if she wasn't a pastry chef, she had some other "gift" that saved her, thus the phrase, "saving grace."

Plus, I don't know if you saw all the fun pictures, but a hermitage, even for part of the time, is also an option. For myself, I think I'd love a hermitage in the woods surrounded by deer, and chipmunks, and all manner of wild animals. I used to live in a house in a very wooded area, and I loved it. I'm not so sure about a hermitage when the weather got very cold or icy, but for most of the year I'd love it.
[/quote]

My recipe said to cook the shell first, so I did, but I think I could have cooked it a little longer. The main problem was that I was in a hurry and didn't put the douh back into the fridge/freezer for an hour before rolling out and I think that matters!

I lived in a hermitage in the NJ woods for two months and loved it - but I missed praying the Office in community. If we can do that in the PPC then it sounds perfect!

[krissylou]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' timestamp='1284348725' post='2172524']
Do you know an employment agency or something where I could find an angel "Sister Cook?" I would be very nice to her, and give her lots of appreciation. If she wanted to go to Mass (assuming angels go to Mass) or if there was some important angel meeting in heaven she couldn't miss, I would totally understand.

But, especially when you don't love cooking to begin with, it's hard for me to live alone and eat well. Even getting to the grocery store is tough for me--and if I did cook, the energy it would take me to make dinner would use up my "energy quota" for the day (which is pretty small if standing up is involved). There are some services (really intended for those on diets) that provide three fresh meals a day, but they are also pretty expensive.

I'min also desperately need of a "housekeeper angel" but I don't want to seem like I'm being greedy. One thing that sounds heavenly about living in community is that meals would be provided (although I realize that community has its downsides, too).

BTW--The PPC never expected those in need of special diets to just "offer it up" if the food offered would make the Sister ill or wouldn't meet special medical needs, such as diabetes. I think we were mostly kidding in that conversaton, as one of our ongoing, but FAR from serious, "Carmelites" versus "Normal People" debates--like the time I threatened to glue pictures of St. Thomas Aquinas with nonremovable glue, over every available free wall and ceiling surface of the cells of Carmelites if they kept me awake at night with holy ecstacies, or wanted too many pictures or statues of St. Therese in the monastery. However, the "Sister Cook" we have dreamed up for the PPC--able to make healthy, outstanding meals, with a lot of variety, and also be a gifted pastry cook, all the while without luxury or ostentation, would either have to be an angel or a saint.
[/quote]

Right, nobody would do that. Offering up the liver meatloaf is one thing. Anaphylactic shock is quite another.

I was thinking more along the lines of a community telling a would-be postulant with, say, celiac disease (which is HARD to work around!) "I'm sorry, we just cannot accommodate you. This won't work."

Which may be a regrettable necessity in real life, but with our Angel Kitchen Assistants we can indeed accommodate all of them.

\

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='krissylou' timestamp='1284581738' post='2173541']
Right, nobody would do that. Offering up the liver meatloaf is one thing. Anaphylactic shock is quite another.

I was thinking more along the lines of a community telling a would-be postulant with, say, celiac disease (which is HARD to work around!) "I'm sorry, we just cannot accommodate you. This won't work."

Which may be a regrettable necessity in real life, but with our Angel Kitchen Assistants we can indeed accommodate all of them.

\
[/quote]

Very true.

And, unlike other Communities, the PPC has no age limits or health restrictions. (Early on, I nixed the idea of a psychological test, because I suspect that all of us may be just a wee bit crazy--especially those who would join a community like the PPC.) Even those with health issues have important ways they contribute to the Community. And, because of the generosity of our unkown "donor," medical bills are not an issue, and all members will have access to the best health care available.