Unlimited Freedom Does Not Exist Without The Denial Of God

[Tridenteen]

JMJ
My text book states from the Catholic Encyclopedia that "...unlimited freedom does not exist, and that license, acting without controls, results in complete denial of God, Subjectivism, and Anarchism..." so that is interesting for me to contemplate. It makes sense, for some people complete freedom might be unlimited sex, liquor, and partying, and not worrying about anything spiritual. Yeah, I can see where that would lead to denial of God. BUT! What about unlimited freedom in the manner of following God's laws, and the precepts of the Church, of your own free will, and still living life as you like. That seems pretty free to me. Maybe my idea of freedom is pretty limited (then again, I consider it daring to wear colored lipstick in public half the time) but what is unlimited freedom exactly? One dictionary defines it as "...the ability to make and act upon decisions independantly...". So, does that mean making and acting upon decisions while using Church teachings is not unlimited freedom? And then, what does that make Catholics?

I need to cut back on the caffeine. I ain't leaving the Church, but the idea that "unlimited freedom" can only be achieved by denial of God is thought provoking.

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='Tridenteen' date='04 July 2010 - 09:55 PM' timestamp='1278298535' post='2137799']
JMJ
My text book states from the Catholic Encyclopedia that "...unlimited freedom does not exist, and that license, acting without controls, results in complete denial of God, Subjectivism, and Anarchism..." so that is interesting for me to contemplate. It makes sense, for some people complete freedom might be unlimited sex, liquor, and partying, and not worrying about anything spiritual. Yeah, I can see where that would lead to denial of God. BUT! What about unlimited freedom in the manner of following God's laws, and the precepts of the Church, of your own free will, and still living life as you like. That seems pretty free to me. Maybe my idea of freedom is pretty limited (then again, I consider it daring to wear colored lipstick in public half the time) but what is unlimited freedom exactly? One dictionary defines it as "...the ability to make and act upon decisions independantly...". So, does that mean making and acting upon decisions while using Church teachings is not unlimited freedom? And then, what does that make Catholics?

I need to cut back on the caffeine. I ain't leaving the Church, but the idea that "unlimited freedom" can only be achieved by denial of God is thought provoking.
[/quote]

It's just another clumsy use of words, Tridenteen. Don't let it scandalize you. Your freedom, insofar as it is freedom, is unlimited. You are not free to do some things. Does that mean your freedom is limited? No. The authors are obviously equating "unlimited freedom" with "license." A poor use of words, at best, and a fallacy, at worst.

~Sternhauser

[WillT]

[quote name='Tridenteen' date='04 July 2010 - 11:55 PM' timestamp='1278298535' post='2137799']
JMJ
My text book states from the Catholic Encyclopedia that "...unlimited freedom does not exist, and that license, acting without controls, results in complete denial of God, Subjectivism, and Anarchism..." so that is interesting for me to contemplate. It makes sense, for some people complete freedom might be unlimited sex, liquor, and partying, and not worrying about anything spiritual. Yeah, I can see where that would lead to denial of God. BUT! What about unlimited freedom in the manner of following God's laws, and the precepts of the Church, of your own free will, and still living life as you like. That seems pretty free to me. Maybe my idea of freedom is pretty limited (then again, I consider it daring to wear colored lipstick in public half the time) but what is unlimited freedom exactly? One dictionary defines it as "...the ability to make and act upon decisions independantly...". So, does that mean making and acting upon decisions while using Church teachings is not unlimited freedom? And then, what does that make Catholics?

I need to cut back on the caffeine. I ain't leaving the Church, but the idea that "unlimited freedom" can only be achieved by denial of God is thought provoking.
[/quote]
I think perhaps you are misreading the quote. The way I'm reading it, because of the comma after "freedom", is that they are trying to say unlimited freedom doesn't exist and then explaining that license (a futile attempt at unlimeted freedom?) leads to those consequences. Then again, you are the one with the full quote so I may be missing something.

Edited July 5, 2010 by WillT

[KnightofChrist]

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13598b.htm

[KnightofChrist]

This may or should explain what type of freedom it is speaking.

"There is no unlimited freedom in the world, and liberty over-stepping its boundaries always leads to evil. Man himself is neither absolutely free, nor would he desire unbounded freedom. Freedom is not the greatest boon nor the final end of man; it is given to him as a means to reach his end. Within his own mind, man feels bound to truth. Around himself, he sees all nature bound to laws and even dreads disturbances in their regular course. In all his activity he gets along best by remaining within the laws set for him. Those judgments are the best which are formed in accordance with the rules of logic. Those machines and instruments are the finest which are allowed the smallest amount of freedom. Social intercourse is easiest within the rules of propriety. Widening these boundaries does not lead to higher perfection. Opinions are free only where certainty cannot be reached; scientific theories are free as long as they rest on probabilities. The freest of all in their thinking are the ignorant. In short, the more freedom of opinion, the less science. Similarly, a railway train with freedom in more than one line is disastrous, a ship not under the control of the helm is doomed. A nation that depreciates its code of law, that relaxes the administration of justice, that sets aside the strict rules of propriety, that does not protect its own industry, that gives no guarantee for personal and public property and safety is on the decline. Unlimited freedom leads to barbarism, and its nearest approach is found in the wilds of Australia."

[goldenchild17]

I was reading this from Fr. Corapi today and don't know if it helps or not but I thought it was interesting:

[quote]"Freedom is a great thing, and we do well to celebrate it on the 4th of July. That being said, it’s something rooted in truth, and apart from the truth there can be no authentic freedom.


If you continue in my word [truth] you are truly my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free. (John 8:31-32)


An individual, a country, or a world that does not remain rooted in objective truth cannot ultimately live in freedom. If you are serious about your faith, my dear friends, I strongly recommend that you read #1730-1748 as we approach the wonderful celebration of Independence Day, or the 4th of July.


Some highlights of this reality:


1731: Freedom is the power, rooted in reason and will, to act or not to act, to do this or that, and so to perform deliberate actions on one’s own responsibility. By free will one shapes one’s own life. Human freedom is a force for growth and maturity in truth and goodness; it attains its perfection when directed toward God, our beatitude [true happiness].


1733: The more one does what is good, the freer one becomes…


One of the most common errors of all time is to confuse freedom and license. Today, frequently under the specious pretext freedom, mankind acts in a manner that is really license. We are not morally free to do whatever we choose to do. Only when rooted in truth and acting in objective truth can we hope to be free. No one has the moral right to do evil. No one has the moral right to choose to take an innocent life or to engage in actions that are out of accord with right reason or any objective standards of morality we have ever known.


The inevitable consequence of abusing freedom is losing freedom. Soon, if we do not alter our present course, the United States will no longer be the home of the brave and the land of the free. Loss of personal freedoms, one at a time, is already well underway. One day we shall awake from our moral slumber and find that we have become slaves.


We must live in truth and act in truth if we are to remain free. Abuse it and I assure you we shall lose it! Wake up America! God is not a disinterested spectator. Let’s thank God for our freedom, but let’s not sit by idly while the forces of darkness divorce freedom from truth. For, as Jesus says, “The man who sins is the slave of sin.” (John 8:34)"[/quote]

http://www.fathercorapi.com/Webpage.aspx?WebpageId=60&CategoryId=25#independence

Edited July 5, 2010 by goldenchild17