New Discerner Needs Help

[juchu]

[quote name='osapientia' date='02 July 2010 - 09:49 AM' timestamp='1278078546' post='2136920']
I love the term "spiritual child" used in one of the replies to this thread - forgive me I forget which one it was. This is really the crux of the first few years. You are not a chronological child and of course by 28 years old one expects that you are not an emotional child either...but a spiritual child you will be when first coming into a community. There will be much to learn...the history of the community, their particular customs and unless you have been an oblate or "third order" member of an order you will need to study and learn about the charism as well, you will learn about decorum and how the sisters interact with each other, visitors, benefactors etc. With all that learning to do, one can certainly feel like a child in comparison to the learned "adults" around you who move about their day in perfect harmony with God, nature and their Superior, always managing to be in the right place at the right time doing the right thing while you can barely figure out the shoes to wear for that Rosary walk you are now missing because you forgot what time and from where the procession starts on a Wednesday that falls after a Tuesday that falls after a Monday which follows a Sunday that is the 1st day of a month starting with a J in a year ending with a 2....and yet EVERYONE else is out there walking and praying (except of course for your fellow postulant who has given up on finding the procession and is wandering aimlessly about the great halls of the Abbey. <wink wink> Yes, sometimes you'll FEEL like a child who can't even figure out the most simple things.....
[/quote]

Thank you for that post! I really had to smile, because i made an aspirancy with a community this lent and easter and your post so reminded me of how I felt! I knew the community for about two years and had been there several times as a volunteer, but really a little bit "living the life" was truly like you described.
I said to the sister who accompanies me that it is crazy, that right now I am in the age of definetly " growing up", finishing my masters, being 25, having lived on my own for 5 years, abroad for three years... And suddenly I am a child again.
"In the world" I know how to behave, how to talk, how to be charming, how to talk with people I do not know, how to dress and act. I am capable of working with groups of people, students.... And now in the middle of this life of growing up I am a child again. The youngest, the one with less experience, the one who makes the movements last in prayer, the one who takes the wrong songbook to the office, the one who knocks out the same chair twice while serving at a meal List could be continued endlessly!

But what I experienced, and on what I am still working on now, is that it is a big chance to make discoveries about myself. For myself, I realized that my appearence, the way I am self-confident about large groups, etc. is also kind of a mask. I learned how to "behave" in such situations, but actually I am not as brave as I pretend to be. Of course, I have all those skills, but at the same time I am a small and vulnerable child. The aspirancy helped me discover that child, that child in need of God, in need of the community, in need of becoming truly me and not what society, university, the academic-world wants me to be. To let me understand that inside me, inspite of being "adult" and "grown-up" are so many things that still need to grow in love and patience.

Whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child ... We are children of God. And I hope that during my formation I will grow in the relationship with my Father.

[Sister Marie]

All of these replies are wonderful. I wanted to add something about the idea of obedience and the impression of being treated like a child. I have felt that way in formation at times, and it is not a great feeling at all! But sometimes in formation we have to re-frame the way we think about things. For me, what really helped was to realize that there is a difference between being childish and childlike when it comes to obedience and religious life.

The great gift that my community has given me through the sacrifice of each sister's life is the inheritance of our charism, spirituality, and mission. Just as our parents teach us to slowly receive the responsibilities of life, our religious community prepares us to live a life of self-sacrificing service and loving consecration. We are called to be childlike in receiving that gift with open arms and trusting obedience, as a child from their parent. We are not called to be childish: to enjoy being told what to do and who to be. This childlike attitude is much more difficult to achieve but so much more fruitful.

I hope this helps. God Bless
Sister Marie

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='Sister Marie' date='02 July 2010 - 05:10 PM' timestamp='1278108607' post='2137109']
All of these replies are wonderful. I wanted to add something about the idea of obedience and the impression of being treated like a child. I have felt that way in formation at times, and it is not a great feeling at all! But sometimes in formation we have to re-frame the way we think about things. For me, what really helped was to realize that there is a difference between being childish and childlike when it comes to obedience and religious life.

The great gift that my community has given me through the sacrifice of each sister's life is the inheritance of our charism, spirituality, and mission. Just as our parents teach us to slowly receive the responsibilities of life, our religious community prepares us to live a life of self-sacrificing service and loving consecration. We are called to be childlike in receiving that gift with open arms and trusting obedience, as a child from their parent. We are not called to be childish: to enjoy being told what to do and who to be. This childlike attitude is much more difficult to achieve but so much more fruitful.

I hope this helps. God Bless
Sister Marie
[/quote]

I really like the way you distinguish being "childish" and "childlike." When we have reached a place in the world where we have gained some skills and some responsibility, the thought of "obedience" sounds impossible.

But, when you put it in the way you did, that you are entering a new life, so you have to "re-frame" the way you think about things, and realize that, for all your education, you are still a child in learning how to live for the Lord, and learning how to be a religious. The idea of opening our arms and saying, "Teach me" is an excellent way of putting it. It's not denying the gifts you have, but realizing that this is something entirely new, and you have to start over, just as everyone else does. And, despite education and job experience, a new postulant will find some things very difficult, and also find that the things they find difficult are the same things that other postulants and novices find easy (but then, those postulants and novices find other things difficult, because people are different).

I also like the idea that you and others have expressed that the view of what is important, what you need to be striving for, what is respected, is very different in religious life than how "the world" defines these things. So, while the community will be genuinely happy and proud of a Sister who earns her PhD, the Community will be equally respectful of, say, for example, their Sister Cook, who might be a Sister who not only manages to cook wonderful meals, but is also very close to God, and, by example, teaches her Sisters as many things about living for Him as the Sister with the PhD.

I tried to give you a +1 for your post, but I had already used my +1 for the day.

Edited July 2, 2010 by IgnatiusofLoyola

[osapientia]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='02 July 2010 - 07:49 PM' timestamp='1278110988' post='2137126']
So, while the community will be genuinely happy and proud of a Sister who earns her PhD, the Community will be equally respectful of, say, for example, their Sister Cook, who might be a Sister who not only manages to cook wonderful meals, but is also very close to God, and teaches her Sisters as many things about living for Him as the Sister with the PhD.

I tried to give you a +1 for your post, but I had already used my +1 for the day.
[/quote]
Or perhaps a sister who simply becomes lover for the sake of Christ...

"Most important of all growth is the growth in love; without which St. Paul tells us we are like "clanging cymbals". The Rule of St. Benedict is clear on this above all else. We must grow in love. In fact, if a monk or nun spent their days performing drudgery after drudgery but grew into the monastery’s greatest lover, that growth would have even more meaning than the growth in knowledge and human skill that produced a hundred volumes on the most complex of subjects." From the blog at: [url="http://paxun2u.com/2010/05/11/centering--growth--part-9.aspx"]Blog Post[/url]

[DameAgnes]

Every sister or nun I have ever spoken with has said that "obedience" is the toughest thing about religious life, and that is true whether they were young vocations or later ones (you, btw, are hardly "old" or a "late" vocation). The responses here about spiritual childhood have been very good, but the important thing to remember about formation is that a community is truly trying to establish within each sister a singleness of mind and heart, and part of that--part of learning to be a productive and fruitful bee in the hive, so to speak--is the sublimation of self, even if you have to take orders from someone less educated or experienced than you.

God works on each vocation in his own way, after all.

You mention a few religious orders; as a CPA you would certainly have something that could be of service to your community and to others - the Alma Mercies sound like a hand-to-glove fit in the sense that they have a good number of sisters who entered at around age 26 or so, after establishing their professional careers, so the "being treated like an adult" issue may be a very familiar one for them. Also, their apostolates utilize each sister's training and inclination; so many of these orders are involved in development, capital campaigns, etc, that they'd probably jump to have a sister who could free them from CPA expenses! ;-) (although you may well be asked to do something completely different, too, both because your community needs it of you and your superior believes it will be beneficial to your mind and spirit). I know that the Sisters of Mary, Mother of the Eucharist seem to be full of younger sisters, but there have been a few "older" sisters who have entered - one an attorney, another a CFO for two companies - and they seem to be flourishing, but that IS a teaching order, so if you entered, you could find yourself teaching accounting instead of being an accountant.

In all of these communities they stress that they are sisters (and for that matter contemplatives) first, that is the core of their identity, not whatever skill or job they possess. That can be difficult for some to get their heads around in a society where the first thing people are asked is not "who are you" but "what do you do?" Religious ask "who are you" and "how do you be?" Doing and being are such different things.

If I may offer one piece of advice that might seem strange to you, please pick up a copy of Rumer Godden's In This House of Brede. It is a novel about an extremely successful professional woman in England who enters a Benedictine Monastery at the age of 42. She believes she will be happy to give up her responsibilities, but finds obedience just as tough as it is for anyone, and I don't want to give any of it away, but the thing is, Rumer Godden lived on the grounds of a monastery for a couple of years while researching and writing this, and it shows. The book is one of the truest representations of religious life--active or contemplative--that has ever been written. And it is also a gem on its literary merits along. I think you may find a kindred spirit of sorts in Philippa Talbot, and she might end up being a great reassurance to you (or a great challenge.)

A few other communities that might be worth looking into besides those you've mentioned:

Daughters of St. Paul (they work in media and communications, and would probably love your experience!)
http://www.daughtersofstpaul.com/

Franciscan Sisters of the Eucharist (lots of vocations from established professionals and varied apostolates. IMHO, the ugliest habits, ever, but I know others like them; their novices do NOT wear a distinguishing white veil, which you may like)
http://www.fsecommunity.org/
They're having a vocation weekend in November: http://www.fsecommunity.org/news/10-06-10_vocationwkend.html

Sisters of Life (http://sistersoflife.org/about-the-sisters-of-life/history)
Wonderful charism, gorgeous habits, deeply prayerful and you might be a tremendous help to the people you serve.

Sister Servants of the Eternal Word
http://www.sisterservants.org/content/testimonials.php
They do retreats...what could be more needed?

Apostles of the Sacred Heart of Jesus
http://www.ascjus.org/

Sisters of the Incarnate Word of the Blessed Sacrament
http://www.iwbscc.org/call_sisters.html


Also, don't worry about hurting your SD's feelings. A simple, "they were charming, but I did not feel especially attracted to join them" should be more than sufficient if he is a good SD.

Good luck! I will pray for your intentions!

Edited July 3, 2010 by DameAgnes

[osapientia]

[quote name='DameAgnes' date='03 July 2010 - 02:00 AM' timestamp='1278133255' post='2137264']

If I may offer one piece of advice that might seem strange to you, please pick up a copy of Rumer Godden's In This House of Brede. It is a novel about an extremely successful professional woman in England who enters a Benedictine Monastery at the age of 42. She believes she will be happy to give up her responsibilities, but finds obedience just as tough as it is for anyone, and I don't want to give any of it away, but the thing is, Rumer Godden lived on the grounds of a monastery for a couple of years while researching and writing this, and it shows. The book is one of the truest representations of religious life--active or contemplative--that has ever been written. And it is also a gem on its literary merits along. I think you may find a kindred spirit of sorts in Philippa Talbot, and she might end up being a great reassurance to you (or a great challenge.)
[/quote]
EXCELLENT suggestion...excellent book. I always "mean" to suggest then forget..I'm glad you didn't forget Dame Agnes. Great book and spot on for this thread.

[Tridenteen]

[quote name='ksterling' date='01 July 2010 - 11:20 AM' timestamp='1278001240' post='2136596']
I am 28 yrs. old and have been discerning a religious vocation for about a year. A month ago, my SD suggested I take my inquiry to the next level and visit some orders. I never had nuns in school and I don't recall ever meeting one in my life. My SD (let's call him Fr. X) suggested his sister's community. I went for a visit. The sisters were charming. However, the youngest was about 15 years older than me - no one has entered and stayed for more than 10 years and many of the sisters were very elderly. Part of me thought "just go where God points." The other part of me (the CPA part) worries about the finances of the order and what will happen to me. I am scheduled for a visit with Fr. X next week. I know his first question will be about my visit. He is a lovely man and I am afraid of hurting his feelings if I tell him that it was a very awkward visit. What should I do?

Question 2 - since I came back from my visit, I have been looking at some of the communities you talk about in this forum - Sisters of Mary, Nashville Dominicans, Srs. of St Francis of the Martyr St. George, Alma Mercies. I like that there are so many young women who actually seem to live in community (the order I visited had many sisters living alone in apartments). So here's my next problem. I am, as I said, 28. I am on a partnership track at my accounting firm. I own a home (well, a condo) car, etc. I serve on 2 corporate boards for local non-profits. Would I be treated like an adult in these communities? Looking at some of the websites, it seems as if there is so much regimentation and supervision, maybe I am just too old for this.

Confession - now I am getting a little discouraged. Your thoughts on my dilemma?
[/quote]


JMJ
Don't worry about hurting Fr.X's feelings, he might be a nice man, but he can take your opinion.
You seem to like the idea of a community, as in living with family, so go for that. Several Sisters in the Ann Arbor and Nashville dominicans entered in there very early thirties, and they are all very content and happy. Religious life at your age could either be very freeing and beautiful, or it might not suit you, and you could look into consecrated virginity in the world.

edited for typo

Edited July 3, 2010 by Tridenteen

[Sarah147]

"He is a lovely man and I am afraid of hurting his feelings if I tell him that it was a very awkward visit. What should I do?"

Just wanted to say that he is there to help you and direct you. Just be open and honest with Him as you do God. God will work through him to help you. I also heard from someone on EWTN that we say we are worried about hurting someone else but usually we are worried about hurting ourselves. Don't be afraid.

[ksterling]

As you all assured me, my fears of offending Fr. X were baseless. We had our meeting yesterday and I was very honest about my visit to his sister's community. He said that it was just as useful as a visit to the community that I really might enter because it gave me some perspective, ideas about questions I need to ask and made me think about what order is right for me. Some of you suggested a monastic vocation. I don't think that is the right path for me.

A funny thing happened over the holiday. I went to a BBQ at the home of a friend from my church. She had lots of guests and I didn't know a soul. I happened to strike up a conversation with a woman - after a while, she mentioned that she was from Connecticut. I replied that I was discerning a religious vocation and just been looking at the website of an order in CT - before I could even say who it was, she said "You must mean the Apostles of Jesus!" It was! This woman had 2 daughters who went to a high school at which the Apostles teach in Hamden, CT. She knew all about them and just loved them. I know you are all going to say "God works in mysterious ways." I was thinking the same thing myself. She gave me the name of a sister there who she knows well and I promply wrote her a letter. I told Fr. X and he was happy to see me exploring other communities. I will also, as some of you suggested, look at the Alma Mercies but I just have a good feeling about the Apostles. I noticed in their galleries that they have a number of sisters who look to be about my age and they teach at 2 high schools. I could certainly teach high school math - I currently teach a basic accounting course at the local community college. I am feeling very optimistic as my discerment moves forward! I don't expect an easy or clear path and I know I may make some wrong turns but if this is really my calling, I'll find the place that's right for me.

I really appreciate all your feedback!

[ksterling]

One more thing - thanks for the suggestion about "In this House of Brede." I just ordered it from Amazon - major annoyance - they don't have it for Kindle so I couldn't immediately gratify my need to read it!

[stlmom]

We have a former phatmasser who is just finishing her postulancy with the Apostles. Her name is Katie, also known at phatmass as "Shortnun". The Apostles have a strong presence here in St. Louis--they are a very fine community, and I wish you all the best in making contact with them .

[ksterling]

New Question - so sorry to be a pest - this is all so new and I have no one else to ask. The communties that attract me are not having vocation retreats until late fall or early next year. I was disappointed but now that I think about it, this, of course, makes sense to me since they are busy preparing for new entrants, receptions and vows. Do you think any of them would allow me to just come for a visit and meet the vocation director? Maybe even a day trip? I know that I would not be able to enter until next year so why not wait until the scheduled retreats. Well, I would like to narrow down the communities that might be a good fit - get to know them and, more importantly, have them get to know me to see if they would want me. What do you think?

[osapientia]

[quote name='ksterling' date='08 July 2010 - 11:30 AM' timestamp='1278599457' post='2139299']
New Question - so sorry to be a pest - this is all so new and I have no one else to ask. The communties that attract me are not having vocation retreats until late fall or early next year. I was disappointed but now that I think about it, this, of course, makes sense to me since they are busy preparing for new entrants, receptions and vows. Do you think any of them would allow me to just come for a visit and meet the vocation director? Maybe even a day trip? I know that I would not be able to enter until next year so why not wait until the scheduled retreats. Well, I would like to narrow down the communities that might be a good fit - get to know them and, more importantly, have them get to know me to see if they would want me. What do you think?
[/quote]
Give them a call...see what they say, it's certainly not unheard of that someone comes by to see the vocation director outside of a formal retreat.

[Cherie]

[quote name='ksterling' date='08 July 2010 - 10:30 AM' timestamp='1278599457' post='2139299']
New Question - so sorry to be a pest - this is all so new and I have no one else to ask. The communties that attract me are not having vocation retreats until late fall or early next year. I was disappointed but now that I think about it, this, of course, makes sense to me since they are busy preparing for new entrants, receptions and vows. Do you think any of them would allow me to just come for a visit and meet the vocation director? Maybe even a day trip? I know that I would not be able to enter until next year so why not wait until the scheduled retreats. Well, I would like to narrow down the communities that might be a good fit - get to know them and, more importantly, have them get to know me to see if they would want me. What do you think?
[/quote]

I agree with osapientia - go ahead and call the community you're interested in visiting, and ask them - I know many communities will offer a vocation visit for someone outside of their designated "vocation retreat." Sometimes they prefer the vocation retreat, since it's more focused on vocations and you get to meet many like-minded young women, which is great for support! But not everyone can manage a vocation retreat, and so they'll often allow you to visit for a few days--or even just a day, depending on what you can do--so you can meet the community. Be assured of my prayers for you in your discernment!