10 Questions For Every Christian

[N/A Gone]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDHJ4ztnldQ

I have a friend of a friend coming on strong on facebook. He is anti-theist and gave me this video. I was hoping the phamily could give it a look and any suggestions to his answers.

[Selah]

I'll take a look at it tommorow. I'm still stressed over math. lol.

[Hilde]

I have heard many of these before, and i made a prayer thread touching on some of these issues.(In the debate table)
Many of these youtube videos are very very arrogant and I have to give this one credit for not being so absolutely asinine.
But one thing that bothers me is that he kind of presupposes that he is right, like when you say "you've created an excuse to rationalize it" Um so, we must ask ourselves these questions, but we aren't allowed to come up with answers other than that everyone should become atheists?

I hope someone with more energy than me can come up with a more throughout and systematic response.

ETA: I had a funny thought. Many times I have heard people say that people believe in God because he fits some holes in our knowledge and when we gain more he will be more and more obsolete. When I watched this video the opposite thing was mentioned as and actual argument for atheism. I mean like, that if these questions make us uncomfortable we should just look at them in an atheist way and everything will just be ok.

Edited June 28, 2010 by Hilde

[-L-]

[quote name='Revprodeji' date='27 June 2010 - 10:06 PM' timestamp='1277690764' post='2135183']
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDHJ4ztnldQ"]http://www.youtube.c...h?v=zDHJ4ztnldQ[/url]

I have a friend of a friend coming on strong on facebook. He is anti-theist and gave me this video. I was hoping the phamily could give it a look and any suggestions to his answers.
[/quote]

Well, first off we should respond in a spirit of charity unlike the manner in which this person made their video which was obviously meant to shame and embarrass Christians and those that believe in God.

1- Why won't God heal amputees?

Well lets start of by saying we don't know if he hasn't.

But I think we first need to examine the purpose of miracles. Jesus didn't perform miracles for performing miracles' sake. He performed miracles so that people would BELIEVE in Him, and believe in the one who had sent Him. If we are essentially able to scientifically prove that divine intervention reproduced a limb then what room is there for faith or belief? It is merely acknowledging the fact that a person who previous was missing a limb now has acquired one again, and a logical answer to this would be that a divine power restored it, a power that works supernaturally. So, in my view, God performs miracles to increase our faith and the faith of others by the testimony of those who witnessed it. One could pose this sort of question to a variety of scenarios. Why doesn't God talk to us directly rather than speak through prophets etc? Well first off He has talked to us directly as Jesus Christ, but God works in mysterious ways. Ways that truly don't make sense to many people, but in the end I think we will be satisfied knowing why things happened the way they did.

2- Why are there so many starving people in the world?

When sin entered the world, all of its ill effects entered with it. In Genesis, God cursed creation, and now we have to deal with all of the bad things that come with nature such as famine, destructive storms, etc. Some people are born into these situations where, where they live does not have enough food to feed the people living there. But we are a human family, and God works through people we are supposed to help our fellow man, and we are, but certainly not enough. We send food and medicine to poor places like Africa, but people have a tendency to be apathetic and greedy and that is why there are so many starving people, because we don't act in a spirit of charity often enough. There is plenty of food in the world for all of us, many people just get complacent and do not care to do the simple task of donating food or money to those who are starving.

3- Why does God demand the death of so many innocent people in the Bible?

First off, God has full authority to take life at will, in the words of Bill Cosby to his kids on his show: "I brought you into this world, and I can take you out" God created us and and He can end our lives whensoever He chooses, it is His right. Many people do not want to hear this though, because they do not want a higher power to have rights like this, but we know this to be motivated by pride for we know our place in this world, and everything good we get is a gift from God, and every extra day is a gift, we are playing with house money in that regard. During the time of the Israelites, God had to mold a nation in the midst of a world full of false religion and iniquity, this required strict laws for the specific purpose of keeping this nation pure and separate from the pagan gentile world. Even in spite of God's strict laws for the purpose of the survival His chosen people as a nation, they still rebelled and worshiped these false gods! So even with these strict laws, the people rebelled, how much more would they have rebelled if there were no earthly consequences for breaking them? God knew the Israelites were a nation of stiff necked people, He saved them from slavery in Egypt and not too long after, many were worshiping a Golden Calf. *roll eyes* The sruvival of the nation of Israel was critical in God's plan for salvation for all of humanity. God told Abraham, that through him all nations would be blessed, and all nations certainly have been blessed through him, considering salvation is of the jews, and Jesus Himself was a Jew.

4- Why does the Bible contain so much anti-scientific nonsense?

First of all, we need to make sure we do not interpret every single verse in the literal sense of what appears on the page. The maker of the video seems to suggest that is the only way the text is to be interpreted which is completely false. but lets use the creation story as an example. creation was obviously not made in 6 literal days, so we know from the get go that God wanted the creation story to be written not as a myth, but as a simplified answer to the curiosity of man. We are by nature curious. Even as little kids we ask our parents the dreaded "where do babies come from?" question. And what do our parents tell us? "The baby grows in mommy's tummy" or something easy for them to understand. We do this so we can satisfy the curiosity of children while at the same time giving them an explanation that is somewhat within their ability to understand, we don't want to go into the business of explaining the sperm and the egg etc, because they would not understand any bit of that. I think God has treated humanity the same way, the people around at the time of hearing the creation story had no idea the earth was a sphere, they didn't know about evolution, or that the earth revolves around the sun, so naturally God, like the Father that He is gave us an explanation that could satisfy our curiosity to an extent while still making it simple enough so that no matter how unlearned or ignorant we are we still have general idea of the way in which creation came about.


I'll answer more of the questions later, my hands are tired lol

[peach_cube]

My thoughts:

- Somehow having a college degree equals being a critical thinker. In my experience most people are poor critical thinkers regardless of degree.
- He ends up concluding that people of faith must be delusional. I found it to be a typical atheist condescending treatment of faith. Only "intelligent" people can follow what he is saying etc.

- Questions #1 and #2 deal with God answering prayer. I don't think he understands what prayer is/should be. We want to do the will of the Father, not our own. Prayer helps with this. It's not about ending all suffering with miracles. The change must come from us. We are the ones who should do God's will and care for the sick and feed the poor. It is in this way that limbs will be "regrown" and famines avoided.

- Question #3 is the whole God calling for the Death of (insert sinner here). Stating that God must not be loving because he is calling for this. Maybe when he is a father he will understand why our Father would say such things.

- #4 the bible is scientifically inaccurate. It's not a science book, it serves a more important purpose about what it teaches then scientific accuracy.

- #5 Slavery. #6 Bad things happen to good people (pointless)

-#7 He says there is no evidence of Jesus' miracles, therefore they are myths. Using the historical records available, and churches built, I believe there is more evidence for these miracles than say the great Greek thinkers, perhaps Socrates actions are just a "myth" as well. I find it typical for a modern thinker to quickly dismiss the writings and evidence from the past. I think it is because of our false sense of intellectual superiority.

-#8 Jesus never appeared to me so he must not exist (dumb).

- #9 Jesus wants us to eat his flesh and blood, how gross. Obviously I found this one quite funny. He gave the same criticism that people gave of the earliest Christians! Maybe if he was a Jew in Jesus' time he would understand why the Paschal Sacrifice must be eaten.

- #10 Divorce rate are the same for christians vs. non christians. Basically says that there is no difference. Which misrepresents the data. We have all seen the data before, basically if you live out your faith actively with your family you will have a very low rate of divorce. Anyway I think his point is that everyone is praying to God for the marriage to succeed so it should or something, which is really just a rehashing of question #1 and #2 about God not answering prayer.

- He strongly states that science proves that all the perceived miracles are coincidence. Pretty weak, as well as undocumented and not a supported argument.

- He passes off the men in the bible as "ruthless" and other things. I don't think he knows much about the bible beyond short bits. Most ruthless men that know would not want themselves portrayed as the Jews and the apostles are portrayed in the Bible.


Anyway, I thought it was arrogant and typical. Someone trying to be an expert on a faith that they only have a remedial understanding of, which is pretty much par for the course these days.

[SaintOfVirtue]

Yet another atheist tries to use "rational thought" to debunk Christianity. If the author of this video had done even a little bit of research he would know:
1. Not all passages of the Bible should be taken literally.
2. Even secular history backs many events in the Bible i.e. the enslavement of the Jews in Egypt and their escape.
3. His logic is fatally flawed and not rational at all.

It seems whenever I find an interesting topic that gives me an excuse for a lengthy post, I end up having to walk out the door. Therefore I will finish my reply tomorrow. (hopefully)

[Gregorius]

i've seen this before. Garbage.

Now let's see here:

Nicolas Copernicus- First scientist to substantially prove the heliocentric theory of the solar system, and also a Catholic Priest.
Gregor Mendel- Austrian Monk put in charge of the garden at his monastery... oh yes, he is also considered the father of the study of genetics!
Blaise Paschal- philosopher and scientist who ultimately chose to embrace the Holy Catholic Faith. The SI unit of pressure is named in his honor.
Rene Descartes- Catholic who attempted to reconcile the Faith and his scientific work. Best known for work in geometry and the coordinate plane system is named after him.
Louis Pasteur- French Catholic who made extensive advances in microbiology. Invented the process of pasteurization, and vaccination. helped eliminate many virulent diseases and tremendously improved general hygeine.
Georges Lamitre- Catholic Priest and the first proponent of the Big Bang Theory.

And they say faithful men are delusional. I find it incredibly ridiculous when New Athiests attempt to re-write history.

[penguin31]

The reason for the public gaining the perception that "All Christians believe the Earth was created in 6 days, a few thousand years ago" has a LOT to do with a rather vocal wing of evangelical Protestantism, particularly here in the United States, that decided that the Bible, cover to cover and top to bottom, was a literal history of humanity, choosing to ignore the history OF the Bible all the way until the printing of the King James version. Because that sect, while small, is easily among the most vocal - they begin to shape people's perception of Christianity as a whole.

This i[b]sn't[/b] to dump on Protestants as a whole mind you - many, though they may have disagreements with the Church on other issues, still realize that the creation story presented in the bible is almost assuredly not meant to be taken literally. It's just one particular wing that's managed to color the perception (which to someone who otherwise wouldn't educate themselves on the issue quickly becomes reality)

Since many of the more vocal of those who follow the path of Atheism need a framework in which to wrap their non-beliefs, they then choose points made by theists to be representative of the group at large, even if in fact only a relatively small percentage actually believe that. Actions of radical Muslims? See the "religion of peace" jokes and similar comments. Actions of literalist Christians? See the jokes about Christians and science.

Edited June 28, 2010 by penguin31

[Hassan]

[quote name='-L-' date='27 June 2010 - 10:55 PM' timestamp='1277693729' post='2135199']
Well, first off we should respond in a spirit of charity unlike the manner in which this person made their video which was obviously meant to shame and embarrass Christians and those that believe in God.

1- Why won't God heal amputees?

Well lets start of by saying we don't know if he hasn't.

But I think we first need to examine the purpose of miracles. Jesus didn't perform miracles for performing miracles' sake. He performed miracles so that people would BELIEVE in Him, and believe in the one who had sent Him. If we are essentially able to scientifically prove that divine intervention reproduced a limb then what room is there for faith or belief? It is merely acknowledging the fact that a person who previous was missing a limb now has acquired one again, and a logical answer to this would be that a divine power restored it, a power that works supernaturally. So, in my view, God performs miracles to increase our faith and the faith of others by the testimony of those who witnessed it. One could pose this sort of question to a variety of scenarios. Why doesn't God talk to us directly rather than speak through prophets etc? Well first off He has talked to us directly as Jesus Christ, but God works in mysterious ways. Ways that truly don't make sense to many people, but in the end I think we will be satisfied knowing why things happened the way they did.



2- Why are there so many starving people in the world?

When sin entered the world, all of its ill effects entered with it. In Genesis, God cursed creation, and now we have to deal with all of the bad things that come with nature such as famine, destructive storms, etc. Some people are born into these situations where, where they live does not have enough food to feed the people living there. But we are a human family, and God works through people we are supposed to help our fellow man, and we are, but certainly not enough. We send food and medicine to poor places like Africa, but people have a tendency to be apathetic and greedy and that is why there are so many starving people, because we don't act in a spirit of charity often enough. There is plenty of food in the world for all of us, many people just get complacent and do not care to do the simple task of donating food or money to those who are starving.

3- Why does God demand the death of so many innocent people in the Bible?

First off, God has full authority to take life at will, in the words of Bill Cosby to his kids on his show: "I brought you into this world, and I can take you out" God created us and and He can end our lives whensoever He chooses, it is His right. Many people do not want to hear this though, because they do not want a higher power to have rights like this, but we know this to be motivated by pride for we know our place in this world, and everything good we get is a gift from God, and every extra day is a gift, we are playing with house money in that regard. During the time of the Israelites, God had to mold a nation in the midst of a world full of false religion and iniquity, this required strict laws for the specific purpose of keeping this nation pure and separate from the pagan gentile world. Even in spite of God's strict laws for the purpose of the survival His chosen people as a nation, they still rebelled and worshiped these false gods! So even with these strict laws, the people rebelled, how much more would they have rebelled if there were no earthly consequences for breaking them? God knew the Israelites were a nation of stiff necked people, He saved them from slavery in Egypt and not too long after, many were worshiping a Golden Calf. *roll eyes* The sruvival of the nation of Israel was critical in God's plan for salvation for all of humanity. God told Abraham, that through him all nations would be blessed, and all nations certainly have been blessed through him, considering salvation is of the jews, and Jesus Himself was a Jew.

4- Why does the Bible contain so much anti-scientific nonsense?

First of all, we need to make sure we do not interpret every single verse in the literal sense of what appears on the page. The maker of the video seems to suggest that is the only way the text is to be interpreted which is completely false. but lets use the creation story as an example. creation was obviously not made in 6 literal days, so we know from the get go that God wanted the creation story to be written not as a myth, but as a simplified answer to the curiosity of man. We are by nature curious. Even as little kids we ask our parents the dreaded "where do babies come from?" question. And what do our parents tell us? "The baby grows in mommy's tummy" or something easy for them to understand. We do this so we can satisfy the curiosity of children while at the same time giving them an explanation that is somewhat within their ability to understand, we don't want to go into the business of explaining the sperm and the egg etc, because they would not understand any bit of that. I think God has treated humanity the same way, the people around at the time of hearing the creation story had no idea the earth was a sphere, they didn't know about evolution, or that the earth revolves around the sun, so naturally God, like the Father that He is gave us an explanation that could satisfy our curiosity to an extent while still making it simple enough so that no matter how unlearned or ignorant we are we still have general idea of the way in which creation came about.


I'll answer more of the questions later, my hands are tired lol
[/quote]


You didn't answer any of them. This is pure sophistry, kitch apologetics. I honestly don't feel that they merit a long thoughtful response, so I'll do the sparknotes.

1-Were Christ in the Gospel to buy into your reasoning, he would have not have ordered the deceased Lazarus to come out of his tomb. Or any of the countless recorded miracles in the Bible which are far more extraordinary than the healing of an amputee.

2-Death and starvation preceded the first humans by millions of years.

3- Yeah, it's sinful pride that objects to God deciding all those innocent Egyptian kids needed slaughtering.

4-As Kant said, paternalism is the greatest form of despotism. That is the God you have presented. A paternalistic being who views us as stupid children to incompetent to comprehend facts of science we are actually capable of discovering ourselves and who may kill us at any moment for whatever reason because this is his right. I guess this is a right he gave to himself.


I can respect people who disagree with me. And I can respect thoughtful Christianity. I have no respect for non-sense that sounds like it was regurgitated in paraphrased form from some apologetics propaganda book. That is just sophistry. It's not a honest grappling with the issues it's a lazy attempt to sweep those issues sweep them under the rug.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Gregorius' date='28 June 2010 - 01:39 AM' timestamp='1277703568' post='2135238']
i've seen this before. Garbage.

Now let's see here:

Nicolas Copernicus- First scientist to substantially prove the heliocentric theory of the solar system, and also a Catholic Priest.
Gregor Mendel- Austrian Monk put in charge of the garden at his monastery... oh yes, he is also considered the father of the study of genetics!
Blaise Paschal- philosopher and scientist who ultimately chose to embrace the Holy Catholic Faith. The SI unit of pressure is named in his honor.
Rene Descartes- Catholic who attempted to reconcile the Faith and his scientific work. Best known for work in geometry and the coordinate plane system is named after him.
Louis Pasteur- French Catholic who made extensive advances in microbiology. Invented the process of pasteurization, and vaccination. helped eliminate many virulent diseases and tremendously improved general hygeine.
Georges Lamitre- Catholic Priest and the first proponent of the Big Bang Theory.

And they say faithful men are delusional. I find it incredibly ridiculous when New Athiests attempt to re-write history.
[/quote]

Yeah, and Kurt Godel was a Lutheran. Religious people can be very smart. What does that have to do with anything?

[Hassan]

[quote name='SaintOfVirtue' date='28 June 2010 - 12:07 AM' timestamp='1277698063' post='2135222']
Yet another atheist tries to use "rational thought" to debunk Christianity. If the author of this video had done even a little bit of research he would know:
1. Not all passages of the Bible should be taken literally.
2. Even secular history backs many events in the Bible i.e. the enslavement of the Jews in Egypt and their escape.
3. His logic is fatally flawed and not rational at all.

It seems whenever I find an interesting topic that gives me an excuse for a lengthy post, I end up having to walk out the door. Therefore I will finish my reply tomorrow. (hopefully)
[/quote]

Secular history most certainly does not back the Bible's account of Exodus. As I recall, it doesn't even support the idea that the Jews were enslaved in Egypt. It certainly doesn't support the idea of a mass escape. Neither do ancient Egyptian records.

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='Hassan' date='28 June 2010 - 12:34 AM' timestamp='1277706857' post='2135246']2-Death and starvation preceded the first humans by millions of years.
[/quote]

interesting point

[Gregorius]

[quote name='Hassan' date='28 June 2010 - 02:36 AM' timestamp='1277707016' post='2135247']
Yeah, and Kurt Godel was a Lutheran. Religious people can be very smart. What does that have to do with anything?
[/quote]
The implication made by the man in the video suggests that people of faith are either willfully ignorant or delusional. Empirical evidence simply does not support that, that's all.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Gregorius' date='28 June 2010 - 01:51 PM' timestamp='1277747487' post='2135364']
The implication made by the man in the video suggests that people of faith are either willfully ignorant or delusional. Empirical evidence simply does not support that, that's all.
[/quote]


Yes and no. On the aggregate there is a correlation between dogmatic religious belief and lower intelligence or lack of religious faith and higher intelligence. There is also the fact that religious belief amongst accomplished scientists and academics tends to be pretty low. Those are general trends that seem to be pretty solid, individuals within those groups can be all over the map.

[rhetoricfemme]

I'll respond to this when I have a little more time, but I just wanted to let you know that I'll be praying about the whole situation.

I also have a friend who is a staunch atheist. He's always been inquisitive and critical but still respectful of other people. Eventually he got overzealous and became a Richard Dawkins fan boy, and was constantly spouting anti-Christian rhetoric via FB posts. Like several posts a day. Eventually I got fed up with it and wrote him a letter letting him know just how insulting he is being about something that he has chosen to be so one-sided about, and that he's allowed himself to believe that anyone who partakes in religion, particularly Christianity, has to be a weak-minded and brainwashed whiner to believe in any of the things that they do.

That letter was nearly a year ago and he stopped writing all of his anti-religion stuff. I don't know if your friend is more interested in just religion-bashing or if he's just into aggressive debate, but if you want I can send you a copy of the letter I sent to my friend.