Christianity And Judaism Versus Mythology

[XIX]

[quote name='Hassan' date='26 June 2010 - 12:45 AM' timestamp='1277523904' post='2134413']
Yeah you did!




























And then you decided not to muster a response.

It is a fair question. Why are the gods of mythology so selfish next to what your God wants.
[/quote]
Do you want your kids to love you?

[Hassan]

[quote name='XIX' date='26 June 2010 - 02:08 AM' timestamp='1277532512' post='2134443']
Do you want your kids to love you?
[/quote]


I don't have kids. I'd like to marry a woman someday when I get older. I would want her to love me. If I insisted that she worship, adore, and praise me for all eternity, she'd probably ask for a divorce.

[Hassan]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='26 June 2010 - 12:30 AM' timestamp='1277526655' post='2134431']
"the gods" remind me more of humans with super powers, than gods. An ancient form of the Graphic Novel [i]Watchmen[/i].
[/quote]

Why? Because they love, hate, become jealous, ...et cetera?

[Hassan]

[quote name='Innocent' date='26 June 2010 - 12:24 AM' timestamp='1277526256' post='2134428']
Some years back, when I was trying to make up my mind about God and religion, I too thought about this a lot.

Finally I came to the conclusion (I think it was while reading the dialogue [i]Crito[/i] by Plato) that God can't help it that the nature of reality and existence is such that He is our highest good and is perfect in all ways and deserves our adoration.
[/quote]


I'm not sure how I feel about this answer, to be honest. Could you elaborate on it some for me? Why did Crito prompt that conclusion?

[Nihil Obstat]

Personally, I always wondered if the ancient Greeks and Romans et. al. actually believed in that whole pantheon. I mean... they weren't dumb people. I wonder if it was just a part of their culture rather than something they literally believed.

[SaintOfVirtue]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='25 June 2010 - 11:29 PM' timestamp='1277533784' post='2134447']
Personally, I always wondered if the ancient Greeks and Romans et. al. actually believed in that whole pantheon. I mean... they weren't dumb people. I wonder if it was just a part of their culture rather than something they literally believed.
[/quote]

I think they literally believed it. Why else would they persecute the Christians? I think they were just fairly superstitious.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Hassan' date='26 June 2010 - 02:20 AM' timestamp='1277533201' post='2134445']
Why? Because they love, hate, become jealous, ...et cetera?
[/quote]

Well for one reason they acted like humans sinners. Zeus if I recall correctly imposed himself on many 'women' many times. Which sounded like rape to me.

[southern california guy]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='26 June 2010 - 12:55 PM' timestamp='1277578508' post='2134574']
Well for one reason they acted like humans sinners. Zeus if I recall correctly imposed himself on many 'women' many times. Which sounded like rape to me.
[/quote]

Yeah, they weren't necessarily benevolent. The Gods were a bit taken with their power and they would lord it over the people once in a while. So you always wanted to stay on the good graces of the gods.

I find parts of the Old Testament disturbing similar. Remember the First Reading from a couple Sunday's back:

7 Nathan said to David, "You are the man. Thus says the LORD, the God of Israel, `I anointed you king over Israel, and I delivered you out of the hand of Saul;
8 and I gave you your master's house, and your master's wives into your bosom, and gave you the house of Israel and of Judah; and if this were too little, I would add to you as much more.
9 Why have you despised the word of the LORD, to do what is evil in his sight? You have smitten Uri'ah the Hittite with the sword, and have taken his wife to be your wife, and have slain him with the sword of the Ammonites.
10 Now therefore the sword shall never depart from your house, because you have despised me, and have taken the wife of Uri'ah the Hittite to be your wife.'
[color="#FF0000"]13 David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the LORD." And Nathan said to David, "The LORD also has put away your sin; you shall not die. [/color]

Wow what an easy out! He kills the guy, takes his wife and rapes her (I'm sure it wasn't consentual) and all he has to do is acknowledge that he has done wrong -- and all is magically forgiven.. I suppose that he was able to go on with a clear conscience after that. I wonder if he kept her as his wife. What sort of repentance is it if you continue to sin?

Jesus Christ being a virgin in the New Testament was sure a huge break from the Old Testament! There may have been elements of the story of Jesus that resembled popular mythology but I think that the moral principles taught in the New Testament were unprecedented. But it seems to me that modern Christianity focuses more on the mythological side and tries to avoid the moral teachings. Doesn't modern Christianity focus on Jesus washing our sins away by dying on the cross, his being a "loving" god, and our salvation -- if we believe that Jesus is god? And they argue that we are saved by faith and not by deeds -- so we don't really have to worry about how we behave despite all the time Jesus spent trying to teach people how to live... Yeah right like our behavior doesn't reflect our belief.

I'm going off on a tangent but I used to get into arguments with "Christians" in college. And they would want me to talk to somebody so that they could teach me what it REALLY meant to be a Christian.. Isn't it made pretty clear in the New Testament? At least the "good guys" aren't as violent as in the Old.

[southern california guy]

I find it interesting that Modern Christianity has basically gone back to the ways of the Old Testament -- especially concerning divorce. It's no big deal to break the vow. In fact you can just keep making and breaking the same vows -- to different people -- over and over and nobody's going to call you on it. This is where the Muslims disagreed with the Jews.

It's interesting to me that this was actually a big deal back in Old Testament times but not so big of a deal now-a-days. My older sister is a Muslim and the Muslims take exception to the Jews and Christians taking marriage vows -- to god -- and breaking them. They argue that you should never take a vow to god that you might not be able to keep. When they get married they make a commitment but they don't take vows to god..

I wonder how many Muslim divorces there are compared to other religions.

Edited June 27, 2010 by southern california guy

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='southern california guy' date='26 June 2010 - 08:49 PM' timestamp='1277599741' post='2134665']
I wonder how many Muslim divorces there are compared to other religions.
[/quote]

It is quite difficult for a woman to divorce her husband in Islamic countries, because the woman has less rights than her husband.

[XIX]

[quote name='Hassan' date='26 June 2010 - 03:18 AM' timestamp='1277533110' post='2134444']
I don't have kids. I'd like to marry a woman someday when I get older. I would want her to love me. If I insisted that she worship, adore, and praise me for all eternity, she'd probably ask for a divorce.
[/quote]
Sorry. I thought you had a family...

You are not God (I think we'll both agree to that detail). Ergo, it would be a bit odd to ask her to worship you. I don't think God really insists upon being worshiped, at least not in the strictest sense of the term. He wants very badly for us to love Him, because it's for our own good. BTW, worship/praise for all eternity is kind of a fancy way of saying that you'd express your love for God.

If/when I have kids, I would very much hope that they love me. Not because I want or need it, but because I've seen kids who don't love their parents and for any number of reasons. It's hurtful for a child to grow up without a relationship with his or her parents.

It's a very rough analogy, especially considering that many children are sadly better off without their parents. My only point here is that wanting to be loved can be a completely selfless desire. If God is an all-loving and all powerful God, then His desire and edict to acknowledge these facts, and for us to love Him with everything we have, is in no way contradictory to His own selfless nature. In fact, it supports that very nature. God wants us to love Him because if we don't, then we will choose to avoid Him frequently and we will then perish.

[southern california guy]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='26 June 2010 - 07:02 PM' timestamp='1277600576' post='2134674']
It is quite difficult for a woman to divorce her husband in Islamic countries, because the woman has less rights than her husband.
[/quote]

And more women initiate divorce than men, right?

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='southern california guy' date='26 June 2010 - 09:22 PM' timestamp='1277601735' post='2134684']
And more women initiate divorce than men, right?
[/quote]

So what do you think, do you think I should bother carrying on a conversation with you, or should I leave it at this?

[SaintOfVirtue]

[quote name='southern california guy' date='26 June 2010 - 05:49 PM' timestamp='1277599741' post='2134665']
I wonder how many Muslim divorces there are compared to other religions.
[/quote]

Their form of divorce involves burying the woman up to her neck and stoning her to death.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='SaintOfVirtue' date='26 June 2010 - 09:50 PM' timestamp='1277603422' post='2134698']
Their form of divorce involves burying the woman up to her neck and stoning her to death.
[/quote]

I just read an article written by a Muslim woman who is happily married - however, she warns Muslim women about the marriage contract and why they should always read it before getting hitched.

[quote]The problem is that marriage contracts often take away rights women otherwise have under Islamic law. This includes the right to file for divorce: Almost all the men in my family and in my husband's family cancel this provision before handing the contract over to the woman's family. It's considered impolite, and a breach of the trust that Sehgal talks about, for a woman or the relative representing her to insist otherwise.

Women also forfeit the right to other protections. For example, in Islam, a woman is promised a certain amount of money (in keeping with her husband's income) usually given to her if she chooses to divorce. The money is meant to provide her with some degree of financial security, especially if she leaves her husband. Despite the excellent logic behind this right, most men frown upon it. They put into the contract measly amounts, such as $1 or $10, simply to fill in the blank. And women don't ask questions. An elderly aunt of mine takes great pride in saying that she agreed to 1 cent when it was time to marry off her daughter. "I had faith in Allah, so 1 cent was all I asked them to put down," she said.

But Allah is the one who gives women this right, I protested. My aunt dismissed me.


Qaisera Sheikh, vice president of the Women's Chamber of Commerce and Industry in Pakistan, says that she has seen women suffer because of their passive attitude toward the marriage contract. "Later on in their married lives when things did not work out, these women realized they had unknowingly given up their right to divorce, for child support, etc.," she said.

In my case, as in the case of most women I know, my husband's family suggested an amount for the marriage payment. My father agreed to it. I signed at the mosque without knowing how much money I would have in the event of divorce. My husband did not cancel the provision allowing me to file for one. Still, if he had, I would have been able to do nothing about it. [/quote]

http://www.slate.com/id/2245908

Edited June 27, 2010 by HisChildForever