Are Our Criminals Treated Better Than The Victims?

[MithLuin]

I'm pretty sure the reason we are executing the criminal in the first place is because we don't approve of their actions. [i]Becoming[/i] them doesn't bring justice to the family, either. So, while it is true that they showed no considerations to the victim, that doesn't mean we should be just like that. Now, as for their last meal - really? KFC is too nice? It's just fast food chicken, hardly gourmet. You'd begrudge someone a milkshake? It's not like they haven't spent the last 10 years eating prison fare. This is [i]one[/i] meal - the rest were not 'catered' to their tastes.

Consider this - how much would you enjoy a special birthday dinner...if you knew you were going to die in a few hours? I think the execution hanging over their heads probably ruins the meal.

Final requests of dying men are given weight in our culture. Obviously, no one is going to stay the execution for them. But granting the request of the meal is a way of dodging the taboo of violating deathbed requests. I consider it quirky more than a tragedy that we offer death row convicts one final meal of their choice.

As [b]Catherine M[/b] pointed out, the real injustice is the people who get away with it - who never get caught or convicted for their crimes.

[Selah]

[quote]I'm pretty sure the reason we are executing the criminal in the first place is because we don't approve of their actions. Becoming them doesn't bring justice to the family, either. So, while it is true that they showed no considerations to the victim, that doesn't mean we should be just like that. Now, as for their last meal - really? KFC is too nice? It's just fast food chicken, hardly gourmet. You'd begrudge someone a milkshake? It's not like they haven't spent the last 10 years eating prison fare. This is one meal - the rest were not 'catered' to their tastes. [/quote]

I don't really care. I do have a problem when someone like Timothy Mcveigh, who stood in court and said that he was sorry people died and shrugged, "oh that's the nature of the beast" when there were children (an infant named Baylee) died-gets to eat shrinp and lobster tail, when someone who stabbed his entire family to death gets to eat a double meat burger with all the trimmings and french fries, onion rings, etc. Sorry. They don't deserve it.

So yes, you better believe I'll begrudge that milkshake.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Selah' date='23 June 2010 - 07:24 PM' timestamp='1277331857' post='2133365']
I was just on Trutv.com. I viewed some of the last meals of the criminals on death row. It was pretty ridiculous. Some of these guys had anything ranging from 2 chocolate shakes and a bucket of kfc chicken...some ranging to food made for a family of 6!

Are you kidding me? This bothered me. These people, convicted felons and murderers are being catered to simply because it's their last day? Really? It just seems all topsy turvy, and it bugged me.

Why are these people allowed to indulge and fatten themselves up just because their being put to death that night? People like that, Ted Bundys and BTK's need to be secluded in solitary confinemant with a bowl of beef stew, not catered 2 buckets of Kentucky Fried Chicken and 3 bottles of coke!

So yeah. That's me.

Oh, and here's the link:

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/photogallery/last-meals.html
[/quote]

First, you really need to get yourself some Popeye's. Let your dog eat the KFC

I thought this was going to be about wealthy white collar criminals enjoying the luxury of premium prisons... stuff like that.

I believe there is no place for the systematic or intentional murder of human life in a civilized society, including the death penalty, abortion, and euthanasia. But given the situation where the death penalty is still exercised, giving a little bit of mercy to a person who has lived many years on death row is not unjust. It's not like fast-food is a nice meal anyway -- I hope someone's mother would make him a real meal!

Keep in mind too that the death penalty touches other issues, especially racism and classism. Countless innocent citizens have been murdered by our state governments because investigators and juries insist that somebody be indicted for a heinous crime -- that somebody is most likely poor and black.

That is a real injustice. Letting him enjoy one meal is simply being human.

[Selah]

[quote]First, you really need to get yourself some Popeye's. Let your dog eat the KFC [/quote]

I LOVE Popeye's. Oh my goodness...


[quote]That is a real injustice. Letting him enjoy one meal is simply being human. [/quote]

Well, yes, I suppose I could elaborated a bit. I do also have a problem with many other things, but this set me off. And hell, they can like their meal all they want...but really? 4 cheeseburgers? Really?

Oh, and since it was asked of me...Timothy Mcveigh got lethal injection. 169 people (an infant included, who was covered in blood and carried by a firefighter) were burned and crushed to death.

Seriously?

Edited June 24, 2010 by Selah

[XIX]

[quote name='Selah' date='24 June 2010 - 01:00 PM' timestamp='1277395239' post='2133626']
Oh, and since it was asked of me...Timothy Mcveigh got lethal injection. 169 people (an infant included, who was covered in blood and carried by a firefighter) were burned and crushed to death.

Seriously?
[/quote]
I'm just asking to clarify: are you suggesting that we should have tortured McVeigh to death because he tortured 169 others?

[Selah]

[quote]I'm just asking to clarify: are you suggesting that we should have tortured McVeigh to death because he tortured 169 others? [/quote]

He should've gotten the chair, just like Bundy.

Edited June 24, 2010 by Selah

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Selah' date='24 June 2010 - 01:00 PM' timestamp='1277398803' post='2133640']
He should've gotten the chair, just like Bundy.
[/quote]

Capital punishment is not about vengeance.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='zunshynn' date='24 June 2010 - 02:34 AM' timestamp='1277361253' post='2133577']
and I really don't think that he deserves or should get a T-bone steak, filet mignon and a bucket of KFC and milkshakes just because it's his last meal. (Which, keep in mind, is paid for by taxpayers).
[/quote]

Alternatively, for some people, a bucket of KFC itself could be a death sentence - I know I think I may need an angioplasty just thinking about it

Edited June 24, 2010 by Norseman82

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Selah' date='24 June 2010 - 12:00 PM' timestamp='1277398803' post='2133640']
He should've gotten the chair, just like Bundy.
[/quote]
I thought you were a peace-loving hippie.


In my opinion, the fact that a person has done terrible things does not excuse us from treating them with basic respect and dignity. Seems to me that a single last meal is just a way to respect the fact that their life is about to be taken away. Morality of capital punishment notwithstanding, I think that the last meal is simply human decency. Sure, some people might take advantage of it, but that's not evidence that the concept itself is flawed.

[BibleReader]

[quote name='Selah' date='24 June 2010 - 02:00 PM' timestamp='1277398803' post='2133640']
He should've gotten the chair, just like Bundy.
[/quote]

It seems to me that you are more concerned about fairness and vengeance to make up for what wrongs have been committed than what is right. Christ taught us to show mercy on our enemies and to love all mankind no matter what. Although we may hate the actions from people terrorist bombers, Timothy McVeigh, Bundy, etc, we are still to love them as people. In God's any one sin is enough to send you to hell, if it wasn't for his undying mercy and love we would all have found destruction by now.

How can we show love to those if all we are concerned with is judging them and condemning them? Let the little things go that bother you about [i]justice[/i] and focus on how you may show them the love of God through your words and actions.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='BibleReader' date='24 June 2010 - 02:09 PM' timestamp='1277402995' post='2133673']
It seems to me that you are more concerned about fairness and vengeance to make up for what wrongs have been committed than what is right. Christ taught us to show mercy on our enemies and to love all mankind no matter what. Although we may hate the actions from people terrorist bombers, Timothy McVeigh, Bundy, etc, we are still to love them as people. In God's any one sin is enough to send you to hell, if it wasn't for his undying mercy and love we would all have found destruction by now.

How can we show love to those if all we are concerned with is judging them and condemning them? Let the little things go that bother you about [i]justice[/i] and focus on how you may show them the love of God through your words and actions.
[/quote]

[size="1"]I posted this in the "Execution by Firing Squad" thread, and I felt that it deserves to be repeated here, since some of the same themes are reoccurring:[/size]

But is the state's primary job mercy or protection of society? It would be great to accomplish both, but, if a choice is forced upon us, which prevails?

"13 Be ye subject therefore to every human creature for God's sake: whether it be to the king as excelling,

14 Or to governors as sent by him [b]for the punishment of evildoers[/b] and for the praise of the good."

1 Peter 2:13-14, DR, courtesy www.awmach.org; bolded emphasis mine.

Additionally, forgive me if I missed this, but I have not seen the subject of the death penaly as a deterrant having been discussed?

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='notardillacid' date='24 June 2010 - 01:30 AM' timestamp='1277357409' post='2133543']
What do you want him to receive? Burn him alive? Is it not enough that we are executing him?
[/quote]
[quote name='LouisvilleFan' date='24 June 2010 - 11:48 AM' timestamp='1277394515' post='2133622']
I believe there is no place for the systematic or intentional murder of human life in a civilized society, including the death penalty, abortion, and euthanasia. But given the situation where the death penalty is still exercised, giving a little bit of mercy to a person who has lived many years on death row is not unjust. It's not like fast-food is a nice meal anyway -- I hope someone's mother would make him a real meal!

[/quote]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='24 June 2010 - 01:11 PM' timestamp='1277399485' post='2133643']
Capital punishment is not about vengeance.
[/quote]
Agree on all accounts.

It is my belief that in the modern American prison system, where it is virtually impossible to escape from a "supermax" type prison, there is practically no need to utilise the death penalty (which, of course, should be used only in instances where it is the only viable way to protect society from the would-be continuing evil acts by the criminal in question).

[BibleReader]

That is true, yes. But so with it comes the authority that says they get a last request. Its not about which one is needed, because both are available. All I am trying to say, is our concern should not be of revenge, hatred, or judgment. We are to leave those things to God for His divine discretion. I believe the death penalty is not only necessary but just. This does not mean that my desire is for these men to die, but to be indifferent of it. Death is not the end, and by reflecting God's love we can help the Holy Spirit to work in men like these, to add another to the kingdom of God.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='24 June 2010 - 11:06 AM' timestamp='1277402789' post='2133669']
I thought you were a peace-loving hippie.


In my opinion, the fact that a person has done terrible things does not excuse us from treating them with basic respect and dignity. Seems to me that a single last meal is just a way to respect the fact that their life is about to be taken away. Morality of capital punishment notwithstanding, I think that the last meal is simply human decency. Sure, some people might take advantage of it, but that's not evidence that the concept itself is flawed.
[/quote]
i can't really remember, but what's the difference between human dignity and personal dignity?

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Lil Red' date='24 June 2010 - 01:37 PM' timestamp='1277404653' post='2133692']
i can't really remember, but what's the difference between human dignity and personal dignity?
[/quote]
Are those theological terms? I'm just speaking generally.