Death Penalty For Molesters?

[Lil Red]

reading through old threads, and came across this post of CatherineM's:
[quote name='CatherineM' date='11 March 2009 - 12:26 PM' timestamp='1236799609' post='1803883']
I'd say no. He might do better with a 24 hour babysitter. I'm not sure we have the scientific means to rehab guys once they become abusers. They either find some way of fixing themselves, or they need to be separated from society.
[/quote]

it just made me think if according to the Church's teachings on the death penalty, if it could be applied to child molesters/sex abusers instead of murderers. i'm not sure of the recidivism rate for molesters, but it does seem that society struggles to rehabilitate them. thoughts?

[Selah]

I don't know. I personally see pedophilia as a mental illness, a very serious one. They have also proven to be very dangerous to society.

I just don't know.

[Lil Red]

btw, sorry if my thoughts aren't more coherent, i'm a little stressed out today.

[Selah]

I don't even know if I think that they can be rehibillitated. It's an awful mental illness, an awful sickness. They need more help than can be offered.

[desertwoman]

I'm for the death penalty for child molesters. Even in other religions, people who abuse others sexual...especially children, are dealt with. In Yoruba, they cut off their heads because they believe something is wrong mentally and they have to come back with a different mind set.

[Hilde]

As punishment or prevention?

What about castration? Even that can be temporary.

[Selah]

Castration would be something positive.

[MithLuin]

I have never understood why people were so reluctant to use castration as a punishment for repeat sex offenders. I understand that rape is not simply a sexual crime, and obviously involves violence and lust for power/control over the victim. Castration won't 'fix' that problem. But it should certainly go a long ways towards mitigating it. A castrated man can still commit violent crimes, and objects can be used rather than his own body, but there'd be a lot less testosterone in his system, at least - should lessen the compulsion in some way.

I know it's cruel and unusual punishment (I mean, try discussing castration, even academically, around any guy, and watch how uncomfortable the topic makes him). But it's certainly less permanent/severe than the death penalty, and is already used as a medical treatment for prostate cancer, IIRC.

I'm not suggesting this for all sex offenders - but for a crime grave enough to get the death penalty, certainly castration seems to be a more reasonable punishment. I seriously doubt the US will ever permit this, though.

[ThePenciledOne]

I say no.


And I would say no against castration as well, for while it may be effective against the problem, and I am more in favor in that then putting the individual to death, but it is an [b]abuse[/b] and [b]mutilation[/b] of the person. And that is something that should not be done to a person, punishment or not.

Edited June 23, 2010 by ThePenciledOne

[CatherineM]

There are molesters who are paralyzed from the waist down. A lot of it is about power and control. Castration doesn't change that.

I believe the last time I looked, recidivism rates for pedophiles is about 95%. That is slowly changing because more and more of them are getting life sentences. Even those who serve their complete sentences are kept inside in some states by mental health commitment as a danger to society.

[Winchester]

Sexual predators are predators. They are not desparate for a drug or for money. They are dangerous and the only sure way to protect their victims is to execute the predator. A maximum security prison would be a fairly certain way, but escapes happen. And, frankly, thanks to weak idiots, sexual predators are not locked away for life. They are released after a stint and "registered."

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Winchester' date='23 June 2010 - 07:14 PM' timestamp='1277334897' post='2133396']
Sexual predators are predators. They are not desparate for a drug or for money. They are dangerous and the only sure way to protect their victims is to execute the predator. A maximum security prison would be a fairly certain way, but escapes happen. And, frankly, thanks to weak idiots, sexual predators are not locked away for life. They are released after a stint and "registered."
[/quote]

Nor should we forget those they prey on in prison. Far too many have the notion that we can simply through such persons in prison and "society" is protected. Those in prison are indeed part of human society, and thus should also be protected from such persons.

I would certainly agree that quite a few of Child Molester cases (where the child was raped) can be a just case for the use of Capital Punishment.

[Marie-Therese]

Castration is ineffective. Plain and simple. Simply reducing testosterone levels does not cure sex offenders...if that were the case, the tendency to rape and molestation would be a simple chemical imbalance. Testosterone may enhance the male sex drive, but of female offenders? What do you do with them? It is a theory that simply doesn't wash. The only possible benefit to castration is to potentially lessen some aggressive behaviours.

People who are sex offenders, whether their victims are children, adolescents or adults, have deep seated psychological disturbance. Sexual abuse is a complex offense, since it is not just about sex or just about control...it is often a combination of all those things, intertwined with anger and other emotions. The driving force that leads a person to become a sex offender isn't something you can just counsel them out of.

I am a firm believer that any person convicted of a violent sex crime should be immediately incarcerated for their entire natural life with no means of parole. If the death penalty is applicable in those cases, I imagine the state would probably use it. I admit being conflicted in how I feel about the death penalty, so I will just say that it would probably be justifiable in terms of the conditions under which it is usually applied (i.e. crimes of a heinous nature) under the current laws. That is not to say I support it, because, as I said, I am conflicted in how I feel about it. However, as it is applied under our current system of justice, I think that sex crimes should fall under the category of crimes for which such a punishment is considered.

The only way to deal with sex offenders is to remove them from society. That is the only safe way of ensuring that they do not re-offend. However, I think that this should apply to situations of violent sex crime, such as child abuse, rape, etc. In the case of a 19 year old guy who gets charged with statutory rape for the consensual act of relations with his 16 year old girlfriend, I do not believe this falls into that category because it is not a violent act.

[Winchester]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='23 June 2010 - 07:18 PM' timestamp='1277335111' post='2133400']
Nor should we forget those they prey on in prison. Far too many have the notion that we can simply through such persons in prison and "society" is protected. Those in prison are indeed part of human society, and thus should also be protected from such persons.

I would certainly agree that quite a few of Child Molester cases (where the child was raped) can be a just case for the use of Capital Punishment.
[/quote]
I made that argument once...to no avail.

But I agree with you.

[tinytherese]

There's only one problem I see in putting molesters to death, it would increase the amount of murders to the rape victims. I remember when my philosophy professor for my ethics class giving a lecture before who brought up that if people received the death penalty for such crimes that they would be much more likely to murder who they raped (and I imagine that they would get rid of the body by burning it or something) so that the victim couldn't possibly report them.

One thing that really troubles me about abusers and rapists is that so many people bring up how they never change. Does that mean that they are incapable of conversion? So they're inebitably going to hell or does God take in to account this serious mental illness of theirs so that they are less resonsible for what they do? How does salvation work for them? Would conversion for them be completely miraculous, even more so than for anyone else? Remember that the molester and murderer of St. Maria Gorreti had a miraculous conversion, was forgiven in person by her mother, and eventually became a monk. I also remember another phatmasser in the past mentioning how their dad was emotionally and physically abusive to her and had a true conversion. So is there a one in a million chance (if not even less so) or something that their salvation won't be lost?

I know that according to Church teaching that lifetime encarceration the way that we do now is sufficient to protect society for the vast majority of crimes so that the death penalty is seen as necessary rarely if ever. Would it be possible then to have those who have committed such grave crimes to be set apart in their own personal cell with minimal contact with anyone if they were a molester?

These are just some things I've been wondering about.