Rastafarianism

[Apotheoun]

As the mystics of the Byzantine tradition would say: The things of God are not learned . . . they are only revealed.

[HisChildForever]

St. John Damascene in his "Founts of Knowledge"

[quote] These used to be idolaters and worshiped the morning star and Aphrodite, whom in their own language they called Khabár, which means great. And so down to the time of Heraclius they were very great idolaters. From that time to the present a false prophet named Mohammed has appeared in their midst. This man, after having chanced upon the Old and New Testaments and likewise, it seems, having conversed with an Arian monk, devised his own heresy....He says that there is one God, creator of all things...[/quote]

You failed to complete the quote. To leave it at "He says that there is one God, creator of all things" implies that Muhammad acknowledges the One True God, but St. John actually said "He says that there is one God, creator of all things, who has neither been begotten nor has begotten" therefore illustrating that Muhammad rejected Jesus Christ, Second Person of the Holy Trinity.

http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/general/stjohn_islam.aspx

St. John continued to speak ill of Islam:

[quote]As has been related, this Mohammed wrote many ridiculous books, to each one of which he set a title. For example, there is the book On Woman, [109] in which he plainly makes legal provision for taking four wives and, if it be possible, a thousand concubines—as many as one can maintain, besides the four wives. He also made it legal to put away whichever wife one might wish, and, should one so wish, to take to oneself another in the same way. Mohammed had a friend named Zeid. This man had a beautiful wife with whom Mohammed fell in love. Once, when they were sitting together, Mohammed said: ‘Oh, by the way, God has commanded me to take your wife.’ The other answered: ‘You are an apostle. Do as God has told you and take my wife.’ Rather—to tell the story over from the beginning—he said to him: ‘God has given me the command that you put away your wife.’ And he put her away. Then several days later: ‘Now,’ he said, ‘God has commanded me to take her.’ Then, after he had taken her and committed adultery with her, he made this law: ‘Let him who will put away his wife. And if, after having put her away, he should return to her, let another marry her. For it is not lawful to take her unless she have been married by another. Furthermore, if a brother puts away his wife, let his brother marry her, should he so wish.’ [110] In the same book he gives such precepts as this: ‘Work the land which God hath given thee and beautify it. And do this, and do it in such a manner” [111]—not to repeat all the obscene things that he did.[/quote]

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='goldenchild17' date='25 June 2010 - 08:47 PM' timestamp='1277513250' post='2134313']
I fail to see how degree of flaw has anything to do with it. If Muslims don't worship God because they have a flawed image of God, then so does every other religion besides Catholicism (I'd go so far as to include E. Orthodox due to the Filioque). [/quote]

USAirways started the discussion on "flawed understanding".

[quote] I'm the only one who posted sources from Catholic theologians. If you want to point the diverging finger at me, be my guest. I've been called far worse in my time here. Honestly, name calling and accusations really have no effect on me anymore.[/quote]

What? I didn't call you ANY names. Please don't accuse me of doing so.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' date='25 June 2010 - 08:47 PM' timestamp='1277513238' post='2134312']
Better not tell that to the Arabic-speaking Catholics:
(John 3:16, Revised Catholic Arabic Bible)

فإن الله أحب العالم حتى إنه جاد بابنه الوحيد لكي لا يهلك كل من يؤمن به بل تكون له الحياة الأبدية.
[color="#FFFFFF"]...............................................................................................[/color]__
(Allah underlined)
[/quote]

I am not really interested in debating semantics. While "Allah" simply means "God" in Arabic it is generally understood that when one uses the name "Allah" one is speaking of the god of Islam. Clearly it is a matter of context.

Edited June 26, 2010 by HisChildForever

[Apotheoun]

When Latin Catholics use the word Deus in referring to the Holy Trinity are they talking about Jupiter or are they talking about the true God revealed by Christ?

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='25 June 2010 - 06:50 PM' timestamp='1277513433' post='2134315']
St. John Damascene in his "Founts of Knowledge"



You failed to complete the quote. To leave it at "He says that there is one God, creator of all things" implies that Muhammad acknowledges the One True God, but St. John actually said "He says that there is one God, creator of all things, who has neither been begotten nor has begotten" therefore illustrating that Muhammad rejected Jesus Christ, Second Person of the Holy Trinity.

http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/general/stjohn_islam.aspx

St. John continued to speak ill of Islam:
[/quote]

I didn't complete the quote because I didn't feel it was relevant. Of course Islam doesn't accept Christ, at least explicitly. No reasonable person would say otherwise. And of course he speaks ill of Islam. There is a multitude of things to speak ill of. It is a very evil and violent heresy. Does that change my opinion that they somehow (whether I can understand it or not) worship the true God? No it does not. In fact, the reason I posted this section of Damascene is because he says particularly "these [b]used[/b] to be [b]idolators[/b]" and yet later after consulting the Bible and an (heretic) Arian monk, "devised his own [b]heresy[/b]." Perhaps I am alone in placing emphasis on a theologians choice of wording, but I do find it signficant that Damascene says that they were once idolators and then through Mohammed became heretics.

[Apotheoun]

The true God is not a mental abstraction that a man can find by his own powers of intellect. There is no such thing as "god in general."

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='25 June 2010 - 06:51 PM' timestamp='1277513517' post='2134316']What? I didn't call you ANY names. Please don't accuse me of doing so.
[/quote]

I apologize I read something into it that maybe I shouldn't.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='25 June 2010 - 07:56 PM' timestamp='1277513775' post='2134319']
When Latin Catholics use the word Deus in referring to the Holy Trinity are they talking about Jupiter or are they talking about the true God revealed by Christ?
[/quote]
Probably Jupiter. Darn those infidel Latin Catholics!

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='25 June 2010 - 06:57 PM' timestamp='1277513865' post='2134321']
The true God is not a mental abstraction that a man can find by his own powers of intellect. There is no such thing as "god in general."
[/quote]

Perhaps not, but I think it is in Acts and Romans (as well as the First Vatican Council, that said that the true God can be known by natural means, apart from revelation.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='goldenchild17' date='25 June 2010 - 06:57 PM' timestamp='1277513832' post='2134320']
I didn't complete the quote because I didn't feel it was relevant. Of course Islam doesn't accept Christ, at least explicitly. No reasonable person would say otherwise. And of course he speaks ill of Islam. There is a multitude of things to speak ill of. It is a very evil and violent heresy. Does that change my opinion that they somehow (whether I can understand it or not) worship the true God? No it does not. In fact, the reason I posted this section of Damascene is because he says particularly "these [b]used[/b] to be [b]idolators[/b]" and yet later after consulting the Bible and an (heretic) Arian monk, "devised his own [b]heresy[/b]." Perhaps I am alone in placing emphasis on a theologians choice of wording, but I do find it signficant that Damascene says that they were once idolators and then through Mohammed became heretics.
[/quote]
Muslims are not idolaters in the strict sense because they do not make idols to worship any longer. That said, neither an idolater nor a heretic offers true worship to God, because the only true act of worship is the Paschal Mystery of Christ.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='goldenchild17' date='25 June 2010 - 07:01 PM' timestamp='1277514091' post='2134327']
Perhaps not, but I think it is in Acts and Romans (as well as the First Vatican Council, that said that the true God can be known by natural means, apart from revelation.
[/quote]
A grasp of an abstract notion of divinity through the divine powers in creation is not faith. It has no salvific value, that is, unless you wish to call yourself a Pelagian.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='25 June 2010 - 08:02 PM' timestamp='1277514138' post='2134328']
Muslims are not idolaters in the strict sense because they do not make idols to worship any longer. That said, neither an idolater nor a heretic offers true worship to God, because the only true act of worship is the Paschal Mystery of Christ.
[/quote]
To clarify for me, does that exclude Protestant Christians?

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='goldenchild17' date='25 June 2010 - 08:57 PM' timestamp='1277513832' post='2134320']
I didn't complete the quote because I didn't feel it was relevant. Of course Islam doesn't accept Christ, at least explicitly. No reasonable person would say otherwise. And of course he speaks ill of Islam. There is a multitude of things to speak ill of. It is a very evil and violent heresy. Does that change my opinion that they somehow (whether I can understand it or not) worship the true God? No it does not. In fact, the reason I posted this section of Damascene is because he says particularly "these [b]used[/b] to be [b]idolators[/b]" and yet later after consulting the Bible and an (heretic) Arian monk, "devised his own [b]heresy[/b]." Perhaps I am alone in placing emphasis on a theologians choice of wording, but I do find it signficant that Damascene says that they were once idolators and then through Mohammed became heretics.
[/quote]

Does one have to be a believer in the One True God first in order to be labeled a heretic?

[HisChildForever]

According to 1 John 2:22-23, Muhammad is an Antichrist. The god of Islam would also be considered an Antichrist for rejecting Christ.