HisChildForever Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 [quote name='dominicansoul' date='18 June 2010 - 01:01 PM' timestamp='1276880501' post='2130928'] yes, all those writers are wrong, while you are correct... [/quote] Did I say all of the writers were wrong? No. But clearly the writers are giving conflicting information, so logically speaking someone must be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 [quote name='Winchester' date='18 June 2010 - 11:11 AM' timestamp='1276881095' post='2130942'] Wasn't Arius a bishop? [/quote] Arius was a priest, but your point is well taken, because all the most important heresiarchs were men in sacred orders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 [quote name='dominicansoul' date='18 June 2010 - 01:03 PM' timestamp='1276880586' post='2130930'] I hope the person he killed made it to heaven and had forgiven him, and met him at the pearly gates last nite... from what I understand, this man was sorry for his sin, and that had something to do with why he chose the type of death in the first place... [/quote] Where do you get the impression that he was sorry? He chose death by firing squad because, I quote, "I lived by the gun, I murdered with a gun, I will die by the gun." The source for that quote can be found in one of my earlier posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffpugh Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 You know, I always thought the firing squad was a more honourable way to die. [quote name='CatherineM' date='18 June 2010 - 10:42 AM' timestamp='1276872166' post='2130873'] I wondered the same thing at the lethal injection execution I witnessed. Everyone seemed way too excited by getting to do it. I found it ironic that the most gung-ho policeman that day passed out cold when the execution went bad. There's a show I like to watch here called Murdoch Mysteries. It is set in Victorian era Toronto. One episode dealt with the hangman. He said that he considered it a sacred duty to dispatch someone who was to die in a proper manner. Do it wrong, and the condemned prisoner will lose his head (rope too long), or slowly strangle to death (rope too short). I think that if our society wants to kill people in my name, I'd appreciate it being done by those who do it with somber respect rather than excited exuberance. [/quote] Murdoch Mysteries is awesome. Anywho, in fear of what your response will be, how did you take the "execution gone wrong"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franciscanheart Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 [quote name='HisChildForever' date='18 June 2010 - 12:06 PM' timestamp='1276877171' post='2130898'] The article is missing a very important piece of information. [url="http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/methods-execution"]Death Penalty Information Center[/url] [/quote] Read carefully. The article does state that Utah has outlawed the firing squad and that he had chosen that execution before that decision was made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 [quote name='hugheyforlife' date='18 June 2010 - 02:53 PM' timestamp='1276887239' post='2130992'] Read carefully. The article does state that Utah has outlawed the firing squad and that he had chosen that execution before that decision was made. [/quote] My mistake. I read the article not 10 minutes after I woke up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franciscanheart Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 [quote name='HisChildForever' date='18 June 2010 - 12:50 PM' timestamp='1276879803' post='2130914'] No, you are incorrect. Before he was sentenced to the death penalty he asked for clemency. He was sentenced to the death penalty after his failed escape from the [s]prison[/s]court. The following quotes are taken from the very article you posted: He was on trial for the murder of a bartender. The request for clemency and a reduced sentence was for that trial. During the trial he murdered an attorney and attempted to escape, which resulted in his being sentenced to the death penalty. [/quote] [quote]Gardner was sentenced to death after being convicted of murder in 1985 [b]for the fatal courthouse shooting of attorney Michael Burdell during a failed escape attempt[/b]. Gardner was at the Salt Lake City court facing a murder charge in the shooting death of a bartender, Melvyn Otterstrom when he took a gun smuggled into him and he shot Burdell in the face as the attorney hid behind a door in the chaotic courthouse. The execution process was set in motion in March when the U.S. Supreme Court rejected a request from Gardner's attorney to review the case. On April 23, state court Judge Robin Reese signed a warrant ordering the state to carry out the death sentence. At that hearing, Gardner politely declared, "I would like the firing squad, please."[/quote] Later in the original article posted here, it speaks to him then asking for clemency in the death-sentence penalty he received for shooting that poor man in the face but he was denied any kind of hearing or argument or anything. He was dead the moment he shot that attorney. It's sad that anything like this should have to happen - on either side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilllabettt Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 It is Dumb Dumb Dumb to give the modern state the power to execute citizens. That is the ultimate control. The ultimate power. And we hand it over. That is one thing I don't get about "conservatives." We're wary of filling out a census form; but when it comes to letting the government use a self-constructed, self-regulated justice system to determine which citizens live and die ... well that's hunky dory. Who checks the judiciary? Who watches the watchmen? Dumb. dumb. dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 [quote name='hugheyforlife' date='18 June 2010 - 03:12 PM' timestamp='1276888363' post='2130999'] Later in the original article posted here, it speaks to him then asking for clemency in the death-sentence penalty he received for shooting that poor man in the face but he was denied any kind of hearing or argument or anything. He was dead the moment he shot that attorney. [/quote] Where? Later in the original article it reads: [quote]But Otterstrom's family lobbied the parole board against Gardner's request for clemency and a reduced sentence.[/quote] Otterstrom was the name of the bartender, not the attorney. Gardner made the request pertaining to that trial, not after he murdered the attorney. Dominican Soul said that Gardner asked for clemency [u]after[/u] he murdered the attorney. I can't find that in the article, unless I missed something again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffpugh Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 [quote name='Lilllabettt' date='18 June 2010 - 03:18 PM' timestamp='1276888690' post='2131000'] It is Dumb Dumb Dumb to give the modern state the power to execute citizens. That is the ultimate control. The ultimate power. And we hand it over. That is one thing I don't get about "conservatives." We're wary of filling out a census form; but when it comes to letting the government use a self-constructed, self-regulated justice system to determine which citizens live and die ... well that's hunky dory. Who checks the judiciary? Who watches the watchmen? Dumb. dumb. dumb. [/quote] Truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 [quote name='Lilllabettt' date='18 June 2010 - 03:18 PM' timestamp='1276888690' post='2131000'] It is Dumb Dumb Dumb to give the modern state the power to execute citizens. [/quote] The Church permits the state to execute an individual after all other alternatives have been exhausted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ardillacid Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 [quote name='Lilllabettt' date='18 June 2010 - 03:18 PM' timestamp='1276888690' post='2131000'] It is Dumb Dumb Dumb to give the modern state the power to execute citizens. That is the ultimate control. The ultimate power. And we hand it over. That is one thing I don't get about "conservatives." We're wary of filling out a census form; but when it comes to letting the government use a self-constructed, self-regulated justice system to determine which citizens live and die ... well that's hunky dory. Who checks the judiciary? Who watches the watchmen? Dumb. dumb. dumb. [/quote] Yes. The Church is so dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilllabettt Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 [quote name='HisChildForever' date='18 June 2010 - 04:38 PM' timestamp='1276889939' post='2131008'] The Church permits the state to execute an individual after all other alternatives have been exhausted. [/quote] I'm not talking about what the Church "permits." I'm not talking morality here. I'm talking about what the death penalty means for the health of our democracy. Do you trust your government with your life? Your neighbor's life? Do you trust the government to disinterestedly identify who deserves to die? If you do trust them, are you confident that you will always be able to trust them? Who watches the watchmen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilllabettt Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 [quote name='notardillacid' date='18 June 2010 - 04:56 PM' timestamp='1276890992' post='2131013'] Yes. The Church is so dumb. [/quote] Blah. The Church permits man to do a lot of "dumb" things in the political realm. Like the welfare state, for example. Some people think democracy is a dumb idea the Church "permits." Just because the Church permits something does not mean its wise or prudent to take that action, or to take it in all times, places and circumstances. Giving the government the power to execute citizens is unwise, if not at all times and places, then certainly at this time and place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ardillacid Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 [quote name='Lilllabettt' date='18 June 2010 - 04:03 PM' timestamp='1276891388' post='2131015'] I'm not talking about what the Church "permits." I'm not talking morality here. I'm talking about what the death penalty means for the health of our democracy. Do you trust your government with your life? Your neighbor's life? Do you trust the government to disinterestedly identify who deserves to die? If you do trust them, are you confident that you will always be able to trust them? Who watches the watchmen? [/quote] Was he given a trial? Did he have 12 of his peers as a jury? Did they unanimously find him guilty? Did the government find him guilty? Or was it 12 average joes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now