KnightofChrist Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='17 June 2010 - 01:10 AM' timestamp='1276751448' post='2130305'] Would that be an oh-so-subtle personal attack? [/quote] No, but why don't you cry me a river about it anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ardillacid Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 [quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='17 June 2010 - 01:09 AM' timestamp='1276751391' post='2130302'] for reals. if you smoke it and don't get high you were wasting it and are a noob (like when Bill Clinton supposedly didn't inhale). or else your dealer ripped you off big time. [/quote] I'm simultaneously surprised at not surprised that you would perpetuate this line of thought. [quote name='KnightofChrist' date='17 June 2010 - 01:09 AM' timestamp='1276751393' post='2130303'] "Feen" is the pothead way of spelling fiend. I thought I would use the slang so I would be understood. [/quote] Another ad hominem. Rack 'em up baby! [quote]Marijuana is lawfully a narcotic, and has similarities to medical narcotics, which would be more properly known as "opioids".[/quote] Laws are arbitrary. The supreme court thinks a tomato is a vegetable, when from a botanical/scientific/real-life standpoint it is a fruit. Same with weed. It certainly is not a narcotic from a scientific/real-life POV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenchild17 Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='16 June 2010 - 11:09 PM' timestamp='1276751372' post='2130300'] So my point would be that this seems to make alcohol look rather poorer in comparison to marijuana, because with marijuana the health benefits are directly associated with the "vehicle of inebriation", which is not the case with alcoholic drinks.[/quote] fair point. I agree with you on all of this, I was just reacting to your line saying that there was no point to drinking alcoholic drinks except to get drunk. But yes, you''re right. [quote]So how are we defining terms? Drunk generally is having passed the point of "tipsy", and entering the territory where you are losing control over your actions, which is irresponsible and dangerous. Are we going to make some distinction with marijuana, where there is some point where you're just a bit "buzzed", and then you pass that point and become truly "high" which is morally irresponsible? [/quote] This needs to be established, because the moral theology text makes this differentiation, so we should also. It seems some here think that one can only be blackout stoned out of one's mind to get the benefits of the drug. I personally have never smoked it so I don't personally know, but from those I know who have smoked it, and what I read, that isn't the case. And I think the difference should be drawn between high, and high to the point where you lose all faculties of the mind. Because its when you lose all faculties that it crosses into the realm of immorality. Edited June 17, 2010 by goldenchild17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='17 June 2010 - 01:09 AM' timestamp='1276751372' post='2130300'] So how are we defining terms? Drunk generally is having passed the point of "tipsy", and entering the territory where you are losing control over your actions, which is irresponsible and dangerous. Are we going to make some distinction with marijuana, where there is some point where you're just a bit "buzzed", and then you pass that point and become truly "high" which is morally irresponsible? [/quote] I feel nothing after one beer but I would feel something after my first drag on a joint. Like Knight said, the sole purpose of smoking marijuana is to get high - which is a sin. Everyone here loves to make comparisons so I guess it is my turn to try. You can drink a little without getting drunk, you can eat some sweets without getting fat, you can watch one movie without wasting your day. That is called moderation. With marijuana there really is no such thing as moderation, the effects are instantaneous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ardillacid Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 [quote name='goldenchild17' date='17 June 2010 - 01:14 AM' timestamp='1276751652' post='2130311'] It seems some here think that one can only be blackout stoned out of one's mind to get the benefits of the drug. [/quote] It is repeatedly perpetuated by certain persons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus_lol Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 [quote name='HisChildForever' date='16 June 2010 - 10:07 PM' timestamp='1276751240' post='2130298'] I have never seen someone get drunk after a beer but I have seen someone get high after one joint, or rather before finishing a joint. [/quote] well, people rarely smoke a whole joint by themselves or at a time. the proportions and units are different. this is akin to saying people can drink one bottle of beer and not get drunk [img]http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh306/yonderabout/2877648-2-becks-beer-bottle.jpg[/img] but since most people cannot drink one bottle of Rum [img]http://dieline.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/10canerum.jpg[/img] without getting drunk, it is bad. but you should be comparing with this amount of rum instead. [img]http://www.kandigirl.com/mixed_drinks/shot_rum.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenchild17 Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 [quote name='notardillacid' date='16 June 2010 - 11:17 PM' timestamp='1276751853' post='2130314'] It is repeatedly perpetuated by certain persons [/quote] I know, and its annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 [quote name='notardillacid' date='17 June 2010 - 01:14 AM' timestamp='1276751644' post='2130310'] Laws are arbitrary. The supreme court thinks a tomato is a vegetable, when from a botanical/scientific/real-life standpoint it is a fruit. Same with weed. It certainly is not a narcotic from a scientific/real-life POV [/quote] Catholics are obliged to obey laws that do not go against the moral law. Catholics are also obliged not to get 'high' purposefully. Narcotic has like many English words various meanings, and one of them in real life is weed, or it's effects. It alters the mind similar to medical narcotics, it is addictive like medical narcotics, though again not as badly. Amongst other similarities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 (edited) [quote name='KnightofChrist' date='17 June 2010 - 12:13 AM' timestamp='1276751623' post='2130309'] No, but why don't you cry me a river about it anyway. [/quote] Yes, that's *exactly* what I was planning on. Come on, really? [quote name='goldenchild17' date='17 June 2010 - 12:14 AM' timestamp='1276751652' post='2130311'] fair point. I agree with you on all of this, I was just reacting to your line saying that there was no point to drinking alcoholic drinks except to get drunk. But yes, you''re right. This needs to be established, because the moral theology text makes this differentiation, so we should also. It seems some here think that one can only be blackout stoned out of one's mind to get the benefits of the drug. I personally have never smoked it so I don't personally know, but from those I know who have smoked it, and what I read, that isn't the case. And I think the difference should be drawn between high, and high to the point where you lose all faculties of the mind. Because its when you lose all faculties that it crosses into the realm of immorality. [/quote] Yea, I just said that to draw a comparison. I don't believe it either. I think drinking in moderation is a great thing. [quote name='HisChildForever' date='17 June 2010 - 12:16 AM' timestamp='1276751789' post='2130313'] I feel nothing after one beer but I would feel something after my first drag on a joint. Like Knight said, the sole purpose of smoking marijuana is to get high - which is a sin. Everyone here loves to make comparisons so I guess it is my turn to try. You can drink a little without getting drunk, you can eat some sweets without getting fat, you can watch one movie without wasting your day. That is called moderation. With marijuana there really is no such thing as moderation, the effects are instantaneous. [/quote] I would like to see some sort of quantitative proof of this assertion that there is no such thing as a moderate dose of marijuana. Edited June 17, 2010 by Nihil Obstat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus_lol Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 [quote name='HisChildForever' date='16 June 2010 - 10:16 PM' timestamp='1276751789' post='2130313'] I feel nothing after one beer but I would feel something after my first drag on a joint. Like Knight said, the sole purpose of smoking marijuana is to get high - which is a sin. Everyone here loves to make comparisons so I guess it is my turn to try. You can drink a little without getting drunk, you can eat some sweets without getting fat, you can watch one movie without wasting your day. That is called moderation. With marijuana there really is no such thing as moderation, the effects are instantaneous. [/quote] sorry this isnt true. one beer actually does have a small effect on you, even if it isnt obvious. and it all depends on body chemistry, one can(i know) sometimes take several drags without feeling anything much, but definitely not much of an effect from just one drag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 Tipsy is the body's clear warning sign to cease drinking. Beyond that one clearly just endangers themselves to becoming drunk. Again one can be drunk without being completely wasted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='17 June 2010 - 01:10 AM' timestamp='1276751448' post='2130305'] Would that be an oh-so-subtle personal attack? [/quote] [quote name='notardillacid' date='17 June 2010 - 01:14 AM' timestamp='1276751644' post='2130310'] Another ad hominem. Rack 'em up baby! [/quote] Um, let's relax. He said [quote]I've seen countless potheads "feen" for weed.[/quote] which means that he has seen marijuana addicts "fiend" - in this case another word for "crave" or "obsess over" - the drug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 [quote name='Jesus_lol' date='17 June 2010 - 01:20 AM' timestamp='1276752023' post='2130321'] sorry this isnt true. one beer actually does have a small effect on you, even if it isnt obvious. and it all depends on body chemistry, one can(i know) sometimes take several drags without feeling anything much, but definitely not much of an effect from just one drag. [/quote] it doesn't make you stoned instantaneously, there is a progression, just as in drinking alcohol..., unless of course, your body chemistry makes you high off just the second-hand smell of it, or drunk by just looking at a bottle of beer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='17 June 2010 - 01:19 AM' timestamp='1276751973' post='2130320'] I would like to see some sort of quantitative proof of this assertion that there is no such thing as a moderate dose of marijuana. [/quote] I would like to see it too, I am speaking from what I have witnessed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenchild17 Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 (edited) [quote name='KnightofChrist' date='16 June 2010 - 11:22 PM' timestamp='1276752131' post='2130322'] Tipsy is the body's clear warning sign to cease drinking. Beyond that one clearly just endangers themselves to becoming drunk. Again one can be drunk without being completely wasted. [/quote] same with pot. First comes the buzz, which (on average I think) comes after a few (2-3) hits. Then high, then stoned. I don't see how that's different from alcohol: tipsy, drunk, hammered. Of course for each (pot, alcohol) its different for different people. But there is a natural progression in each. True, it takes less pot to go overboard, but that doesn't make it inherently worse, it just means you can use less (thus pay less) to get the desired effect. Do many people have the self-control needed to keep from going overboard? Maybe not, that doesn't change the inherent morality of the product. Edited June 17, 2010 by goldenchild17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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