KnightofChrist Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='17 June 2010 - 12:54 AM' timestamp='1276750452' post='2130280'] So KofC, just to make sure I'm understanding you, your argument is that a single joint brings a "high" to the point of sin, morally equivalent to drinking excessively? [/quote] Getting high is sinful that is my argument. [u]Smoking[/u] weed has no purpose other than getting high is my other point. For medical reasons there are pills that do not have the same effect of getting high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ardillacid Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 [quote name='KnightofChrist' date='17 June 2010 - 12:55 AM' timestamp='1276750540' post='2130283'] Getting high is sinful that is my argument. [u]Smoking[/u] weed has no purpose other than getting high is my other point. [/quote] Do you believe there is no other purpose to alcohol than drunkeness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 [quote name='KnightofChrist' date='16 June 2010 - 11:55 PM' timestamp='1276750540' post='2130283'] Getting high is sinful that is my argument. [u]Smoking[/u] weed has no purpose other than getting high is my other point. For medical reasons there are pills that do not have the same effect of getting high. [/quote] So how come I can't apply your argument to drinking? Getting drunk is sinful. Drinking alcoholic beverages has no purpose other than getting drunk, and for medical reasons (in fact there are few if any medical reasons to drink ethanol itself) there are pills that do not have the same effect of getting drunk. I just don't like your second premise (...no other purpose...) Doesn't that seem like a pretty solid comparison to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 Vicodin made me high....and yet, it was obligatory for me to take it after surgery....the whole purpose was for me to feel good and not feel the pain...i guess i sinned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenchild17 Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='16 June 2010 - 10:58 PM' timestamp='1276750684' post='2130287'] So how come I can't apply your argument to drinking? Getting drunk is sinful. Drinking alcoholic beverages has no purpose other than getting drunk, and for medical reasons (in fact there are few if any medical reasons to drink ethanol itself) there are pills that do not have the same effect of getting drunk. I just don't like your second premise (...no other purpose...) Doesn't that seem like a pretty solid comparison to you? [/quote] While I strongly disagree with KoC, I do believe many argue (and I agree) that there are health benefits to having one or two drinks regularly, without getting drunk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 [quote name='Jesus_lol' date='17 June 2010 - 12:54 AM' timestamp='1276750462' post='2130281'] wut? well, to point to alcohol again, one can drink and feel some of the effects without being drunk. getting a buzz, feeling like dancing, social lubrication, these all can happen without being passed out drunk and vomiting. its harder to point to a part of smoking weed where you are definitely stoned, akin to being drunk. This is not because weed is on/off high. This is because there isnt really a level of stoned where you are passing out, significantly losing motor control, vomiting all over the place and waking up in strange places with strange people. that is what the bible prescribes against, being DRUNK. the fact that marijuana doesnt have a similar experience, is a good thing. Arguably getting stoned to the point of being an eggplant with vital signs in your basement is not a great idea, but as a different substance with less harmful effects i doubt it needs to be subjected to alcohol's "Before this is fine/after this is bad" scale. [/quote] One can be drunk without "passing out, significantly losing motor control, vomiting all over the place and waking up in strange places with strange people." There is a difference from being drunk and being wasted, so to is there a difference from being high and being 'stoned'. But both are wrong. Being "buzzed" or "tipsy" is the warning sign to stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenchild17 Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 [quote name='dominicansoul' date='16 June 2010 - 10:58 PM' timestamp='1276750737' post='2130289'] Vicodin made me high....and yet, it was obligatory for me to take it after surgery....the whole purpose was for me to feel good and not feel the pain...i guess i sinned [/quote] I don't think so. Even a relatively mild reason should make it acceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 [quote name='goldenchild17' date='17 June 2010 - 12:00 AM' timestamp='1276750826' post='2130290'] While I strongly disagree with KoC, I do believe many argue (and I agree) that there are health benefits to having one or two drinks regularly, without getting drunk. [/quote] I don't think (although I may very well be wrong) that the health benefits lie in the ethanol content of the drink though, which would be a fine difference to keep in mind. For wine, for instance, I think it's something to do with the antioxidants, at least in theory. If I'm wrong though, correct me. Doesn't change my point in any case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenchild17 Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='16 June 2010 - 11:03 PM' timestamp='1276750988' post='2130295'] I don't think (although I may very well be wrong) that the health benefits lie in the ethanol content of the drink though, which would be a fine difference to keep in mind. For wine, for instance, I think it's something to do with the antioxidants, at least in theory. If I'm wrong though, correct me. Doesn't change my point in any case. [/quote] I don't believe it has anything to do with the ethanol correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='17 June 2010 - 12:58 AM' timestamp='1276750684' post='2130287'] So how come I can't apply your argument to drinking? Getting drunk is sinful. Drinking alcoholic beverages has no purpose other than getting drunk, and for medical reasons (in fact there are few if any medical reasons to drink ethanol itself) there are pills that do not have the same effect of getting drunk. I just don't like your second premise (...no other purpose...) Doesn't that seem like a pretty solid comparison to you? [/quote] I have never seen someone get drunk after a beer but I have seen someone get high after one joint, or rather before finishing a joint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 [quote name='goldenchild17' date='17 June 2010 - 12:05 AM' timestamp='1276751145' post='2130296'] I don't believe it has anything to do with the ethanol correct. [/quote] So my point would be that this seems to make alcohol look rather poorer in comparison to marijuana, because with marijuana the health benefits are directly associated with the "vehicle of inebriation", which is not the case with alcoholic drinks. [quote name='HisChildForever' date='17 June 2010 - 12:07 AM' timestamp='1276751240' post='2130298'] I have never seen someone get drunk after a beer but I have seen someone get high after one joint, or rather before finishing a joint. [/quote] So how are we defining terms? Drunk generally is having passed the point of "tipsy", and entering the territory where you are losing control over your actions, which is irresponsible and dangerous. Are we going to make some distinction with marijuana, where there is some point where you're just a bit "buzzed", and then you pass that point and become truly "high" which is morally irresponsible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 [quote name='HisChildForever' date='17 June 2010 - 01:07 AM' timestamp='1276751240' post='2130298'] I have never seen someone get drunk after a beer but I have seen someone get high after one joint, or rather before finishing a joint. [/quote] for reals. if you smoke it and don't get high you were wasting it and are a noob (like when Bill Clinton supposedly didn't inhale). or else your dealer ripped you off big time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 [quote name='Jesus_lol' date='17 June 2010 - 12:54 AM' timestamp='1276750462' post='2130281'] "The term [b]narcotic[/b] (pronounced [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:IPA_for_English"]/nɑrˈkɒtɨk/[/url]) strictly refers (medically) to any psychoactive compound with [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opioid"]morphine-like effects[/url] (see [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opiate"]Opiate[/url]). A Narcotic is defined as a drug as opium or morphine that in moderate doses relieves pain and induces deep sleep. Excessive use can cause tremors and seizures. However, the term is also used colloquially to refer to any psychoactive drug that induces sleep. Examples of narcotics include [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morphine"]morphine[/url], [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laudanum"]laudanum[/url], and [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin"]heroin[/url]."[/quote] Marijuana is lawfully a narcotic, and has similarities to medical narcotics, which would be more properly known as "opioids". [quote name='Jesus_lol' date='17 June 2010 - 12:54 AM' timestamp='1276750462' post='2130281']and, I am pretty sure you mean "fiend" [/quote] "Feen" is the pothead way of spelling fiend. I thought I would use the slang so I would be understood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 [quote name='KnightofChrist' date='17 June 2010 - 12:09 AM' timestamp='1276751393' post='2130303'] "Feen" is the pothead way of spelling fiend. I thought I would use the slang so I would be understood. [/quote] Would that be an oh-so-subtle personal attack? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 [quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='17 June 2010 - 01:09 AM' timestamp='1276751391' post='2130302'] for reals. if you smoke it and don't get high you were wasting it and are a noob (like when Bill Clinton supposedly didn't inhale). or else your dealer ripped you off big time. [/quote] You best freaking believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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