Smoking Weed

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Winchester' date='16 June 2010 - 03:30 PM' timestamp='1276716630' post='2129986']
Make cigarettes illegal. They smell worse than weed.
[/quote]

I disagree, but that is all a matter of opinion. I have been boxed in before, not fun.

[MithLuin]

If I may interject for a moment, the question of this thread is not whether or not marijuana should be legal for public consumption, but whether or not using it is sinful.

So, [i]if[/i] it were legal, would there be moral qualms against using it? I think, certainly, getting stoned is immoral, the same way getting drunk is immoral. I do not think it is a big deal if people use small quantities of a substance that do not impair their abilities nor create an addiction. Thus, if one can drink socially, presumably one can smoke tobacco or marijuana socially, as well.

Except...very seldom do people use tobacco in a non-addictive way.

Can you be a 'good Christian' yet smoke (tobacco or marijuana) and drink alcohol and caffeine (while we're on addictive substances)?

I think the answer is a very qualified yes. Meaning, the more you put substances like that into your body, the more you are likely to create a dependence, impede your self-control/will power and in general...cause spiritual harm (to yourself and others). If you want to dabble, you can probably manage not to do too much damage, but the more you mess with this stuff...well, it does cause problems.

But [i]if[/i] you were just using these substances occasionally, to relax or wake up or socialize...I don't think you would be committing a mortal sin.

Now, breaking a law when you have no just reason to is another kettle of fish, and introduces an additional layer of 'wrongness' to the situation. Now, you are giving money to a dealer who may deal other drugs and be involved in other criminal activities. This can lead to cooperation in all sorts of sinful activities (though the more removed, the less culpable you are).

At the end of the day, there is no valid reason to use something like cocaine, heroin or PCP outside of something like surgery. (While morphine's effect as a painkiller is well known, cocaine can also be used to numb the area during nasal surgery - though they don't do that anymore.) The statements from the Church on drugs are in reference to narcotics. The thing is, to someone who doesn't use (say) opium, there seems to be little to distinguish the hard core drugs from the more minor ones. The potency of marijuana is pretty high nowadays, not at all like it was when it got banned, so if it were legalized, there would probably have to be restrictions on content (like the difference between wine/beer and hard liquor).

Anyway, I have no desire to see it legalized, and have huge reservations viewing its use as a moral activity. Best to avoid it altogether, in my opinion.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Winchester' date='16 June 2010 - 01:30 PM' timestamp='1276716630' post='2129986']
Make cigarettes illegal. They smell worse than weed.
[/quote]
I don't like the smell of either, but the smell of weed is enough to make me barf.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='MithLuin' date='16 June 2010 - 02:23 PM' timestamp='1276719787' post='2130044']
Anyway, I have no desire to see it legalized, and have huge reservations viewing its use as a moral activity. Best to avoid it altogether, in my opinion.
[/quote]
I agree.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='MithLuin' date='16 June 2010 - 04:23 PM' timestamp='1276719787' post='2130044']
If I may interject for a moment, the question of this thread is not whether or not marijuana should be legal for public consumption, but whether or not using it is sinful.

So, [i]if[/i] it were legal, would there be moral qualms against using it? I think, certainly, getting stoned is immoral, the same way getting drunk is immoral. I do not think it is a big deal if people use small quantities of a substance that do not impair their abilities nor create an addiction. Thus, if one can drink socially, presumably one can smoke tobacco or marijuana socially, as well.

Except...very seldom do people use tobacco in a non-addictive way.

Can you be a 'good Christian' yet smoke (tobacco or marijuana) and drink alcohol and caffeine (while we're on addictive substances)?

I think the answer is a very qualified yes. Meaning, the more you put substances like that into your body, the more you are likely to create a dependence, impede your self-control/will power and in general...cause spiritual harm (to yourself and others). If you want to dabble, you can probably manage not to do too much damage, but the more you mess with this stuff...well, it does cause problems.

But [i]if[/i] you were just using these substances occasionally, to relax or wake up or socialize...I don't think you would be committing a mortal sin.

Now, breaking a law when you have no just reason to is another kettle of fish, and introduces an additional layer of 'wrongness' to the situation. Now, you are giving money to a dealer who may deal other drugs and be involved in other criminal activities. This can lead to cooperation in all sorts of sinful activities (though the more removed, the less culpable you are).

At the end of the day, there is no valid reason to use something like cocaine, heroin or PCP outside of something like surgery. (While morphine's effect as a painkiller is well known, cocaine can also be used to numb the area during nasal surgery - though they don't do that anymore.) The statements from the Church on drugs are in reference to narcotics. The thing is, to someone who doesn't use (say) opium, there seems to be little to distinguish the hard core drugs from the more minor ones. The potency of marijuana is pretty high nowadays, not at all like it was when it got banned, so if it were legalized, there would probably have to be restrictions on content (like the difference between wine/beer and hard liquor).

[b]Anyway, I have no desire to see it legalized, and have huge reservations viewing its use as a moral activity. Best to avoid it altogether, in my opinion.[/b]
[/quote]

I agree.

Also, the idea of "Oh, I just want to smoke a little, it helps me relax" is fairly ridiculous. Does one [i]really[/i] need to introduce a chemical into their body to relax? What about the alternatives, like taking a hot bath, having a cup of tea, or watching a favorite movie in your pajamas?

[dominicansoul]

Let me run with you tonight
I'll take you on a moonlight ride
There's someone I used to see
But she don't give a d*** for me

But let me get to the point, let's roll another joint
And turn the radio loud, I'm too alone to be proud
You don't know how it feels
You don't know how it feels to be me

People come, people go
Some grow young, some grow cold
I woke up in between
A memory and a dream

So let's get to the point, let's roll another joint
Let's head on down the road
There's somewhere I gotta go
And you don't know how it feels
You don't know how it feels to be me

My old man was born to rock
He's still tryin' to beat the clock
Think of me what you will
I've got a little space to fill

So let's get to the point, let's roll another joint
And let's head on down the road
There's somewhere I got to go
And you don't know how it feels
You don't know how it feels
No, you don't know how it feels to be me
You don't know how it feels
You don't know how it feels
No, you don't know how it feels to be me

-Tom Petty

[Winchester]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='16 June 2010 - 04:25 PM' timestamp='1276719956' post='2130046']
I don't like the smell of either, but the smell of weed is enough to make me barf.
[/quote]
It's not a pleasant smell, I agree. And stale weed smell in filthy apartments is pretty horrible. But tobacco smells good when burned--there is something screwed up about cigarettes.

[MithLuin]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='16 June 2010 - 05:31 PM' timestamp='1276720317' post='2130048']
I agree.

Also, the idea of "Oh, I just want to smoke a little, it helps me relax" is fairly ridiculous. Does one [i]really[/i] need to introduce a chemical into their body to relax? What about the alternatives, like taking a hot bath, [b]having a cup of tea,[/b] or watching a favorite movie in your pajamas?
[/quote]

Tea also introduces a chemical into your body - caffeine. If you were Mormon, it would be considered immoral to drink it!

Comparing smoking a joint to eating chocolate would be fairly ridiculous, I know, but it's important to recognize what we are doing, sometimes.

[Winchester]

[img]http://trollcats.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/tea_is_for_fairies_trollcat1.jpg[/img]

Edited June 16, 2010 by Winchester

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='MithLuin' date='16 June 2010 - 02:23 PM' timestamp='1276719787' post='2130044']
If I may interject for a moment, the question of this thread is not whether or not marijuana should be legal for public consumption, but whether or not using it is sinful.

So, [i]if[/i] it were legal, would there be moral qualms against using it? I think, certainly, getting stoned is immoral, the same way getting drunk is immoral. I do not think it is a big deal if people use small quantities of a substance that do not impair their abilities nor create an addiction. Thus, if one can drink socially, presumably one can smoke tobacco or marijuana socially, as well.

Except...very seldom do people use tobacco in a non-addictive way.

Can you be a 'good Christian' yet smoke (tobacco or marijuana) and drink alcohol and caffeine (while we're on addictive substances)?

I think the answer is a very qualified yes. Meaning, the more you put substances like that into your body, the more you are likely to create a dependence, impede your self-control/will power and in general...cause spiritual harm (to yourself and others). If you want to dabble, you can probably manage not to do too much damage, but the more you mess with this stuff...well, it does cause problems.

But [i]if[/i] you were just using these substances occasionally, to relax or wake up or socialize...I don't think you would be committing a mortal sin.

Now, breaking a law when you have no just reason to is another kettle of fish, and introduces an additional layer of 'wrongness' to the situation. Now, you are giving money to a dealer who may deal other drugs and be involved in other criminal activities. This can lead to cooperation in all sorts of sinful activities (though the more removed, the less culpable you are).

At the end of the day, there is no valid reason to use something like cocaine, heroin or PCP outside of something like surgery. (While morphine's effect as a painkiller is well known, cocaine can also be used to numb the area during nasal surgery - though they don't do that anymore.) The statements from the Church on drugs are in reference to narcotics. The thing is, to someone who doesn't use (say) opium, there seems to be little to distinguish the hard core drugs from the more minor ones. The potency of marijuana is pretty high nowadays, not at all like it was when it got banned, so if it were legalized, there would probably have to be restrictions on content (like the difference between wine/beer and hard liquor).

Anyway, I have no desire to see it legalized, and have huge reservations viewing its use as a moral activity. Best to avoid it altogether, in my opinion.
[/quote]

I actually think cocaine (and some others, such as opium based) should fall under the permissible area as well. Interestingly enough, the moral theology text that I posted is from a book, that when I looked in the index, I found it listed under "cocaine" so I assume that it is a substance under which the same guidelines are formed.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='MithLuin' date='16 June 2010 - 05:18 PM' timestamp='1276723112' post='2130064']
Tea also introduces a chemical into your body - caffeine. If you were Mormon, it would be considered immoral to drink it!

Comparing smoking a joint to eating chocolate would be fairly ridiculous, I know, but it's important to recognize what we are doing, sometimes.
[/quote]

Caffeine-free tea.

[Winchester]

[quote name='goldenchild17' date='16 June 2010 - 05:27 PM' timestamp='1276723676' post='2130073']
I actually think cocaine (and some others, such as opium based) should fall under the permissible area as well. Interestingly enough, the moral theology text that I posted is from a book, that when I looked in the index, I found it listed under "cocaine" so I assume that it is a substance under which the same guidelines are formed.
[/quote]
[url="http://vuvuzela.ytmnd.com/"]My response[/url]

[goldenchild17]

I love those horns

[Winchester]

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[goldenchild17]

[img]http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Football/Pix/pictures/2010/6/12/1276375335140/Englands-Robert-Green-con-006.jpg[/img]