Smoking Weed

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='16 June 2010 - 01:58 PM' timestamp='1276711137' post='2129924']
Alcohol is a legal drug that can be purchased by people 21 or over in the US. Students sometimes come to school drunk. Probably about as much as they come to school high. It's probably an issue sometimes, but I don't think it's some kind of social epidemic. [/quote]

I never said, nor did I imply, that it was a "social epidemic". I said that it could become more of a problem than it already is, and it is safe to say that in many areas it is already a problem.

[quote] Seems to me that the problem lies more in the school's ability to maintain discipline being hampered by a developing nanny-state than in the chemicals involved.
[/quote]

Or maybe it has to do with parents being disinterested in their children and giving them whatever they want to keep them quiet - which only spoils them rotten.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='16 June 2010 - 01:03 PM' timestamp='1276711395' post='2129928']
I never said, nor did I imply, that it was a "social epidemic". I said that it could become more of a problem than it already is, and it is safe to say that in many areas it is already a problem.
[/quote]
Well the wider issue I think, is that you'd be concerned that dependency on marijuana would increase through legalization. To that I'd say that it's possible, but at the same time people can become addicted to a huge number of things, and is it the state's job to tell you what you're not allowed to be addicted to? Forming dependencies is bad no matter what it is- smoking, alcohol, drugs, painkillers, fast food, sex, but we can't regulate against all or even most of these things.

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='16 June 2010 - 01:03 PM' timestamp='1276711395' post='2129928']
Or maybe it has to do with parents being disinterested in their children and giving them whatever they want to keep them quiet - which only spoils them rotten.
[/quote]
For sure, but that again is a social problem, and one which won't really get any better or worse through the law.

[MithLuin]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='16 June 2010 - 02:39 PM' timestamp='1276709978' post='2129904']
If marijuana is legal, they look like they are doing nothing wrong. If one person hands another person a joint on the street, who is to say the action is really criminal? It looks like both people are acting in conformity with the law.
[/quote]

Legal and unregulated aren't the same things. Meaning, even if it were legalized, you'd probably still need a license to sell it, and probably would [i]not[/i] be allowed to sell it on the street like that. So, you could still get busted for the drug deal you outline...because I'm assuming money changes hands.

...though I admit it would make enforcement more of a headache than it already is.

Personally, I see no reason to make dangerous/harmful substances any more available than they already are. People have enough stuff to be addicted to as it is. Other than wanting to get high...what's the real motivation behind the push to legalize?

(Again, this part of the conversation isn't about medical uses - it's about self-medicating by people who aren't sick.)

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='MithLuin' date='16 June 2010 - 02:14 PM' timestamp='1276712074' post='2129935']
Personally, I see no reason to make dangerous/harmful substances any more available than they already are. People have enough stuff to be addicted to as it is. Other than wanting to get high...what's the real motivation behind the push to legalize?
[/quote]

Good point.

I agree with what you said about enforcement becoming a huge headache. A bunch of new laws have to be established, not just "who sells it" and "who is permitted to buy it" but "driving while high" kind of laws. Instead of people being thrown in jail for being caught with a good chunk of weed, now they will be thrown in for being caught driving while high. I do not see how that alleviates overcrowding.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='16 June 2010 - 02:12 PM' timestamp='1276711931' post='2129932']
Well the wider issue I think, is that you'd be concerned that dependency on marijuana would increase through legalization. To that I'd say that it's possible, but at the same time people can become addicted to a huge number of things, and is it the state's job to tell you what you're not allowed to be addicted to? Forming dependencies is bad no matter what it is- smoking, alcohol, drugs, painkillers, fast food, sex, but we can't regulate against all or even most of these things.[/quote]

You cannot become physically addicted to marijuana. Regardless, the state has the right to look out for the people and certain addictions are not only dangerous to the self but dangerous to others. So yes, the state does have the right to regulate or outlaw harmful substances. I know, I know, then alcohol and cigarettes should be outlawed. But if the legalization of marijuana causes more problems than it solves, it should not be made legal for the general public.

[quote]For sure, but that again is a social problem, and one which won't really get any better or worse through the law.
[/quote]

If more adolescents begin to abuse marijuana and come to school stoned out of their minds, and if that is due to (for example) their older siblings having easier accessibility to marijuana, then yes the situation was made worse through the new law.

Edited June 16, 2010 by HisChildForever

[HisChildForever]

As I mentioned earlier, marijuana can be laced with other illicit substances. That is probably one of the main concerns, that if marijuana is made legal drug trafficking would become worse.

[dominicansoul]

[quote name='Marie-Therese' date='15 June 2010 - 11:18 PM' timestamp='1276658335' post='2129636']
Most people don't realize that in every single state there is currently a marijuana product available that is 100 percent legal. It is a prescription medication called Marinol, and it is used as an appetite stimulant and anti-emetic (anti-nausea) medication. It is the exact same thing as the active ingredient in marijuana, which is THC, only it is a synthetic version that is regulated by the government. As an oncology nurse I routinely had patients on this medication. Guess what it does? It relieves pain, decreases the symptoms of nausea, and gives people the munchies.

I find it quite interesting that marijuana is decried as a horrible, evil drug when it is used in its regular form, but as long as the government produces a synthetic version of the exact same drug, then it is fine and dandy. To me this is terribly hypocritical.

My position, from the standpoint of a healthcare professional, is that marijuana should be legal in every state at least for the purposes of medicinal use. From a personal standpoint I think that marijuana should be made legal, then taxed and regulated in the same fashion as alcohol and cigarettes. I don't think that the legalization of marijuana would necessarily increase use...I think that if you are going to smoke pot, then you probably will, legal or otherwise. If you have no interest in it, then I don't think people will suddenly develop a rabid desire for it just because it is legal.

I see that marijuana, while being a wonderful drug with numerous medicinal applications, could be a very beneficial crop for the United States. I see benefits on several levels. One, it increases farming by allowing it to be grown in monitored farms. Second, it produces hemp as a byproduct, which is a durable and sustainable natural product that can be used in rope, clothing, shoes, and other consumer products, none of which would be smokable or in any way intoxicating. Third, as a regulated drug, it would produce sales tax and other related tax revenues for local and federal governments. It increases the opportunity for small business growth and increased employment. It also has the added plus of ending a segment of the illegal drug trade, which reduces federal spending on the drug war, prevents crimes related to the drug trade like smuggling, extortion, kidnapping and murder, and decreases the costs of incarcerating people for offenses related to possession.

Of course, these are only my opinions.
[/quote]

excellent post!!!

[HisChildForever]

I suppose I have some bias because my ex would smoke against my wishes - I remember we were watching a movie at his place and he had the nerve to leave for twenty minutes to go out and get some - and be put in an awful mood if the dealer said he was out. So many who smoke marijuana claim they are not addicted in any way, shape, or form but when they run out or can't find any? Watch out.

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='16 June 2010 - 01:29 PM' timestamp='1276712947' post='2129948']
I agree with what you said about enforcement becoming a huge headache. A bunch of new laws have to be established, not just "who sells it" and "who is permitted to buy it" but "driving while high" kind of laws. Instead of people being thrown in jail for being caught with a good chunk of weed, now they will be thrown in for being caught driving while high. I do not see how that alleviates overcrowding.
[/quote]

In my state, the laws already allow the police to arrest you for "driving while distracted" even if you are below the legal alcohol limit. It could be prescription drugs, it could be marijuana, it could be alcohol, it could just be talking on your cell phone, or text-messaging while driving--pretty much anything that could interfere with your ability to drive safely.

I don't know how many other states have these laws already, but I suspect that many do, because Illinois is rarely the first state to impose a new type of law. And, as I understand it, unless someone is killed in an accident, for example, breaking the law doesn't usually involve jail time unless the person is a multiple repeat offender. Instead, the law imposes fines, may take away your driver's license, require you to go to traffic school, etc.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='16 June 2010 - 02:49 PM' timestamp='1276714169' post='2129961']
In my state, the laws already allow the police to arrest you for "driving while distracted" even if you are below the legal alcohol limit. It could be prescription drugs, it could be marijuana, it could be alcohol, it could just be talking on your cell phone, or text-messaging while driving--pretty much anything that could interfere with your ability to drive safely.

I don't know how many other states have these laws already, but I suspect that many do, because Illinois is rarely the first state to impose a new type of law. And, as I understand it, unless someone is killed in an accident, for example, breaking the law doesn't usually involve jail time unless the person is a multiple repeat offender. Instead, the law imposes fines, may take away your driver's license, require you to go to traffic school, etc.
[/quote]

If a person is found with more than a dime bag they go to jail. Anything less is usually up to the discretion of the police officer.

[musturde]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='16 June 2010 - 01:39 PM' timestamp='1276709978' post='2129904']
I wonder if making it legal would make matters worse.

Marijuana is a gateway drug because dealers who have marijuana either sell other drugs or know other dealers who sell other drugs. Therefore, other (more dangerous and addictive) drugs become more accessible to the marijuana user.

Dealers are clever. I can see some hiding other drugs in joints, and I can see them lace other drugs with the joints (which already happens actually). So the person strolling down the street smoking some marijuana may be smoking meth or crack at the same time. If marijuana is legal, they look like they are doing nothing wrong. If one person hands another person a joint on the street, who is to say the action is really criminal? It looks like both people are acting in conformity with the law.
[/quote]

Great, then making it legal would make the government the drug dealer...making marijuana no longer a "gateway drug". Also, the argument that kids would show up high to class is silly. It's going to happen no matter. I'm not sure where you live, but weed is relatively easy to obtain in most places i've lived. I think it'd actually be HARDER to get it if it was legal (you'd most likely need a medical license to get it). Besides, kids are already smoking legal weed (since it's advertised as incense). It's much better to actually have real weed out on the market to make it harder for kids to obtain marijuana because it's harder to card children for buying "incense".

Edited June 16, 2010 by musturde

[ardillacid]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='16 June 2010 - 01:54 PM' timestamp='1276710852' post='2129919']
You have no concern that it might become more prevalent?
[/quote]

People that want to smoke marijuana, smoke marijuana. I've NEVER met anyone who thought "wow, I really would like to smoke a j but weed is so hard to come by"


[quote name='HisChildForever' date='16 June 2010 - 02:29 PM' timestamp='1276712947' post='2129948']
Good point.

I agree with what you said about enforcement becoming a huge headache. A bunch of new laws have to be established, not just "who sells it" and "who is permitted to buy it" but "driving while high" kind of laws. Instead of people being thrown in jail for being caught with a good chunk of weed, now they will be thrown in for being caught driving while high. I do not see how that alleviates overcrowding.
[/quote]

Perhaps some new laws would be introduced, but an entire slew of them would be eliminated, and billions of dollars wasted trying to fight the Drug War.

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='16 June 2010 - 02:34 PM' timestamp='1276713254' post='2129952']
You cannot become physically addicted to marijuana. Regardless, the state has the right to look out for the people and certain addictions are not only dangerous to the self but dangerous to others. So yes, the state does have the right to regulate or outlaw harmful substances. I know, I know, then alcohol and cigarettes should be outlawed. But if the legalization of marijuana causes more problems than it solves, it should not be made legal for the general public.

If more adolescents begin to abuse marijuana and come to school stoned out of their minds, and if that is due to (for example) their older siblings having easier accessibility to marijuana, then yes the situation was made worse through the new law.
[/quote]

That is quite the utilitarian viewpoint you have. Any law that makes the world better is a good law. You are completely ignoring personal liberty here. Maybe we should take away guns too, fewer fire arm deaths is a good thing. Or perhaps fast food should be outlawed since there is absolutely no reason anyone should ever eat that heart-attack-on-a-bun.

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='16 June 2010 - 02:36 PM' timestamp='1276713390' post='2129954']
As I mentioned earlier, marijuana can be laced with other illicit substances. That is probably one of the main concerns, that if marijuana is made legal drug trafficking would become worse.
[/quote]

You must have really crappy drug dealers in New Jersey. I don't know a single person who has had PCP or crack mixed in with their weed. I don't deny that it might happen, but most dealers understand that if they do that, they are out a paying customer, and their reputation is garbage.

Anyways, with the legalization of alcohol also came regulation of the industry. You don't worry about methanol in your alcoholic beverages, do you? Things improved with the legalization because it was no longer all done under the table. All of a sudden there were industry standards, quality assurances, etc., not just the mob mass producing low quality drinks. Additional benefits included massive tax revenues on the now-legal alcohol industry, and one less source of income for the mob. I see no reason why similar benefits wouldn't be reaped with the lifting of prohibition on marijuana.

[quote]If a person is found with more than a dime bag they go to jail. Anything less is usually up to the discretion of the police officer. [/quote]

I find it unlikely that police officers are qualified to determine the street value of a bag of marijuana, I'm guessing they do it purely by mass, rather than dollar value.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='musturde' date='16 June 2010 - 03:16 PM' timestamp='1276715787' post='2129970']
Great, then making it legal would make the government the drug dealer...making marijuana no longer a "gateway drug". Also, the argument that kids would show up high to class is silly. It's going to happen no matter. I'm not sure where you live, but weed is relatively easy to obtain in most places i've lived. I think it'd actually be HARDER to get it if it was legal [b](you'd most likely need a medical license to get it)[/b]. Besides, kids are already smoking legal weed (since it's advertised as incense). It's much better to actually have real weed out on the market to make it harder for kids to obtain marijuana because it's harder to card children for buying "incense".
[/quote]

I am talking about marijuana being sold to the general public the way alcohol and cigarettes are.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='notardillacid' date='16 June 2010 - 03:19 PM' timestamp='1276715960' post='2129973']
That is quite the utilitarian viewpoint you have. Any law that makes the world better is a good law. You are completely ignoring personal liberty here. Maybe we should take away guns too, fewer fire arm deaths is a good thing. Or perhaps fast food should be outlawed since there is absolutely no reason anyone should ever eat that heart-attack-on-a-bun. [/quote]

Then we should legalize other illicit drugs and prostitution, since the state has no right to interfere with one's personal liberty. Right?

[quote] You must have really crappy drug dealers in New Jersey. I don't know a single person who has had PCP or crack mixed in with their weed. I don't deny that it might happen, but most dealers understand that if they do that, they are out a paying customer, and their reputation is garbage. [/quote]

People smoke laced marijuana on purpose, I am not referring to unsuspecting people who have been handed a laced joint.

[quote] I find it unlikely that police officers are qualified to determine the street value of a bag of marijuana, I'm guessing they do it purely by mass, rather than dollar value.
[/quote]

Yes, they do it purely by mass. If a person is carrying a large amount of marijuana, the police suspect that that person is a dealer and they take him in. If a person is carrying a small amount, like a dime bag, the police suspect it is for personal use and therefore it is up to their discretion whether or not they should fine or arrest the person.

Edited June 16, 2010 by HisChildForever

[Winchester]

Legalize marijuana and industrial hemp.

Make cigarettes illegal. They smell worse than weed.