The J.r.r. Tolkien Thread

[sistersintigo]

And to carry that thought further:
Galadriel is descended from Finarfin, of course. And it is through the Silmarillion that Galadriel's ancestors appear front and center, as they do not do in LOTR. You realize, after studying the Silmarillion, that when Galadriel boards that ship into the West, she isn't just going back where she came from, but that....her father is still there, in the flesh, where she will be reunited with him after thousands of years. Chills.

[laetitia crucis]

I had forgotten how many songs there are in [i]LOTR[/i].

Nice.

[sistersintigo]

[quote name='laetitia crucis' date='03 August 2010 - 12:47 PM' timestamp='1280850426' post='2151486']
I had forgotten how many songs there are in [i]LOTR[/i].

Nice.
[/quote]

Right! I was disappointed, actually, that the film series didn't include musical settings of Tolkien lyrics....but one can't have everything, especially from one producer/director, and the LOTR films certainly had a world of other things in them.

[kafka]

in the extended cut of Fellowship I vaguely remember a scene during the flight to Imladris where Aragorn is quietly singing the Beren and Luthien song to himself at night while the hobbits are sleeping. And remember Eowyn sings at the funeral of her cousin the king's son forgot her name, which was neat. That is all I can remember as far as song.

[Innocent]

I spotted a copy of [i]The Legend of Sigurd and Gudrún[/i] in a bookstore this week, but the price was around Rs. 900! I'm waiting for the price to come down. (Of course, I did splurge on [i]Jesus Of Nazareth[/i] which cost around the same, but that was a special case. I can't keep doing that very often. )

Has anyone read [i]The Legend of Sigurd and Gudrún[/i]? Any thoughts about the book?

[sistersintigo]

[quote name='Innocent' timestamp='1281713039' post='2156489']
I spotted a copy of [i]The Legend of Sigurd and Gudrún[/i] in a bookstore this week, but the price was around Rs. 900! I'm waiting for the price to come down. (Of course, I did splurge on [i]Jesus Of Nazareth[/i] which cost around the same, but that was a special case. I can't keep doing that very often. )

Has anyone read [i]The Legend of Sigurd and Gudrún[/i]? Any thoughts about the book?
[/quote]

This is attributed to Tolkien? Sounds more like Wagner's Ring Cycle.

[MithLuin]

It's a case of Tolkien 'filling in the gaps'. I haven't read it yet, though, so I can't comment much. But yes, he did write it, and yes, it is the same content as the Ring Cycle, most likely - same source, anyway.


The movies did make an effort to include the songs, though.

Bilbo sings his walking song when leaving the Shire. Pippin sings a song for Denethor that was written by Tolkien as one of his hobbit songs (though the melancholy air is unlikely to be what Tolkien had in mind for it). Theoden recites 'Where now are the horse and the rider?' before Helm's Deep. Gollum uses a snatch of the Barrow wight's song when he says 'cold be heart and hand and bone.'

I agree that the EE has more songs, such as Eowyn's lament for Theodred (though it is in Old English, I don't think it's based on anything Tolkien wrote).

Merry and Pippin sing their drinking song in the EE of Fellowship (and that version also includes Aragorn's Lay of Leithian - in elvish, though). Likewise for Sam making a verse about Gandalf's fireworks in the lament for him in Lorien. Boromir's dream (to 'Seek the sword that is broken') was also cut from the theatrical version, but was retained in the EE.

So, there are many songs that were left out (Bilbo's Lay of Earendil, Galadriel's Namarie, even Sam's 'Old Troll' or Frodo's 'There was an Inn....'), but the films did try to include snatches of song where appropriate, to give a taste of the songs of these cultures. More often, it was used as lyrics for the background music, which you'd only know if you bothered translating the chorus from elvish.

[Innocent]

Some [url="http://heroicjourneys.wordpress.com/"]kind soul[/url] has uploaded a PDF of [url="http://heroicjourneys.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/niggle.pdf"][i]Leaf by Niggle[/i][/url].

Edited August 17, 2010 by Innocent

[dentarthurdent95]

M[quote name='fides quarens intellectum' timestamp='1278601856' post='2139310']
okay, time to fess up.

I've never liked Tolkien. I'd tried to read [i]The Hobbit[/i] several times, only to give up because his prose was so annoying.

This summer, though, i decided to give it all one last try, since so many Catholics just LOVE Tolkien. I made it through [i]The Hobbit[/i], grudgingly, and I am now on the third book of [i]Lord of the Rings[/i]. I guess reading LOTR is not so bad as [i]The Hobbit[/i] because I really like the movies - I've just never cared for Tolkien's writing. However, Tolkien did have quite an imagination - I will give the fans that. That's as far as I can go at this point, though - we'll see how the book series ends.



BTW, my husband gave up on LOTR because he was bored out of his mind by Tom Bombadil (ck spell) in the first book, then midway into the second book, he just lost interest. However, he also really likes the movies. Are we the only ones who are like this, I mean, really like the movies but aren't big fans of the books they came from?
[/quote]

I am the exact opposite. I loved The Hobbit but could not get past Bilbo's birthday in The Fellowship of the Ring. I will try again very soon though. Maybe right now.In fact, my signature is a quote from The Hobbit, which means I should probably put it in quotes.

Edited August 18, 2010 by dentarthurdent95

[MithLuin]

Happy birthday, Bilbo and Frodo Baggins!

[sistersintigo]

It occurs to me, that my introduction to Tolkien and his world came during my childhood, surrounded by Protestants who were deeply anti-clerical and really hated Catholics especially. Those who introduced Tolkien's books into my life were pretty much atheists. And yet it seems no accident that I converted to the Catholic Church in adulthood, I mean it seems no coincidence that Tolkien has been one of my favorite authors from that day to my conversion and beyond. That would make Tolkien one VERY sneaky proselytizer.

[MithLuin]

'Lord of the Rings' by German metal band Blind Guardian (live):

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nna0-SQPH2o&feature=related[/media]

'One Ring for the Dark Lord, Sam, sitting on his throne, in a land so dark...where I have to roam.'

I like Hansi's voice! If you like the Silmarillion and metal, def. check out the CD 'Nightfall in Middle Earth' by this group.

[kljoyce]

[quote name='sistersintigo' timestamp='1280846613' post='2151464']
And to carry that thought further:
Galadriel is descended from Finarfin, of course. And it is through the Silmarillion that Galadriel's ancestors appear front and center, as they do not do in LOTR. You realize, after studying the Silmarillion, that when Galadriel boards that ship into the West, she isn't just going back where she came from, but that....her father is still there, in the flesh, where she will be reunited with him after thousands of years. Chills.
[/quote]

Yes!!! My favorite character is Elrond, but so many people don't get into/love the 'pre-book trilogy' history of the elves. I love it! Finding out all of Galadriel's names, like I think Nerwen and Altariel or something, and learning about Elrond's childhood : ( was so interesting to me! I don't love the main story as intensely as most fans do, but I like what like! Glorfindel(s) too I especially love the history and stories around him. And Celeborn, and how he's a Telerin!

[Hinter dem Horizont]

I adore JRR Tolkien. I've watched the movies over and over and over. And I own all of the books, including Silmarillion which I did not like at first. But after the second reading I became quite fond of it. I'm all about the elvish race!

[Innocent]

Stumbled across this video today:


[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2p63KQOoOE0&feature=related[/media]


Watching him delightedly blowing out little puffs of smoke reminded me of this passage from Unfinished Tales of Numenor and Middle-Earth


[quote]
[center][i]In another version there is a description of the occasion when Saruman openly scoffed at Gandalf's use of the "pipe-weed:"[/i][/center]

Now because of his dislike and fear, in the later days Saruman avoided Gandalf, and they seldom met, except at the assemblies of the White Council. It was at the great Council held in 2851 that the "Halflings' leaf" was first spoken of, and the matter was noted with amusement at the time, though it was afterwards remembered in a different light. The Council met in Rivendell, and Gandalf sat apart, silent, but smoking prodigiously (a thing he had never done before on such an occasion), while Saruman spoke against him, and urged that contrary to Gandalf's advice Dol Guldur should not yet be molested. Both the silence and the smoke seemed greatly to annoy Saruman, and before the Council dispersed be said to Gandalf: "When weighty matters are in debate, Mithrandir, I wonder a little that you should play with your toys of fire and smoke, while others are in earnest speech."

But Gandalf laughed, and replied: "You would not wonder if you used this herb yourself. You might find that smoke blown out cleared your mind of shadows within. Anyway, it gives patience, to listen to error without anger. But it is not one of my toys. It is an art of the Little People away in the West: merry and worthy folk, though not of much account, perhaps, in your high policies."

Saruman was little appeased by this answer (for he hated mockery, however gentle), and he said then coldly: "You jest, Lord Mithrandir, as is your way. I know well enough that you have become a curious explorer of the small: weeds, wild things and childish folk. Your time is your own to spend, if you have nothing worthier to do; and your friends you may make as you please. But to me the days are too dark for wanderers' tales, and I have no time for the simples of peasants."

Gandalf did not laugh again; and he did not answer, but looking keenly at Saruman he drew on his pipe and sent out a great ring of smoke with many smaller rings that followed it. Then he put up his hand, as if to grasp them, and they vanished. With that he got up and left Saruman without another word; but Saruman stood for some time silent, and his face was dark with doubt and displeasure.
.[/quote]

Edited September 19, 2011 by Innocent