The J.r.r. Tolkien Thread

[Innocent]

[quote name='MithLuin' date='14 June 2010 - 11:30 AM' timestamp='1276491624' post='2128447']
Fingolfin is awesome

"Half-brother in blood, full brother in heart I will be. Thou shalt lead, and I will follow. May no new grief divide us."

Ahhh, but in the Silmarillion, there are always new griefs lurking....

My favorite tale is Beren and Luthien

Here's a picture I took of Tolkien's grave:
[img]http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m263/MithLuin/England/c8-TolkiensGrave.jpg?t=1276490981[/img]
[/quote]

It's great that you were able to visit their tomb and pray there.


Some pictures I found while searching the net:

Edith Bratt Tolkien (Before their marriage, perhaps):
[img]http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r30/prophet_o_peace/TK-riddle/e.jpg[/img]

And two pictures of them together when they were older.

[img]http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r30/prophet_o_peace/Phatmass/edith-tolkien-1.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r30/prophet_o_peace/Phatmass/Ronald_Edith_2.jpg[/img]

(Source: [url="http://www.tolkienforum.co.uk/Default.aspx?g=posts&t=545"]1[/url],[url="http://www.arwen-undomiel.com/tolkien/gallery.html"]2[/url], [url="http://lenegaron27.blogspot.com/2008_12_01_archive.html"]3[/url])

I've been searching the net for any photos of the Tolkiens as newlyweds but no luck so far.

Edited June 15, 2010 by Innocent

[MithLuin]

This picture was taken in 1916, the year he got married and shipped off to war. I don't know if it was taken before or after his wedding, though:

[img]http://s3.amazonaws.com/readers/2008/12/29/tolkien1916_1.jpg[/img]

The Lord of the Rings musical was a lot of fun, but at the same time...you can't really tell the story in three hours. I saw it in both Toronto and London, so I saw what changes they made to it. Basically, the beginning of the story works really well. But later, when everyone splits up, it gets very confused. Rohan and Gondor are conflated into one 'kingdom of men' and it's just all very odd. I will say that in London, they did the destruction of the Ring [i]much[/i] better.

Some highlights:
[url=http://www.lotr.com/sights_sounds/audio_player.php]Lothlorien[/url] (London)

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2r_HgqohtM0]Now and For Always[/url] Frodo and Sam (Toronto, but same actors/song in London)

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NI0I_-8kRtU&feature=related]Gollum/Smeagol[/url] (Yes, it's one guy )

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7OEwk8imUo&feature=related]Star of Earendil[/url] The company leaves Rivendell (Toronto)

Gollum was awesome; the romance between Aragorn and Arwen was wince-worthy. Ents were terrible (*I* could do a better costume design, and their inclusion was pointless), Nazgul were awesome and very creepy! The balrog was fairly silly, but Shelob was as scary as a giant spider should be. The orcs were on awesome bouncy stilt things that I'd love to have the chance to walk/jump around on . The battle of Helm's Deep was fun just because of the crazy rotating/moving stage they have - it was a big part of the production. Other than that, though, the set was very minimalistic - they had a background/chorus group that was supposed to give you a feel for the setting, I guess - but people walking around holding sticks when you know they spent millions on the production just seems silly. Also...very dark (I mean, the lighting). While it had a lot of spectacle to it, I'm not sure it ever really managed to get audiences to connect to the story, which means that it (in some ways) falls flat, unfortunately. They made efforts to bleed the show into the audience, but... Still, certainly worth seeing!

Edited June 15, 2010 by MithLuin

[sistersintigo]

[quote name='MithLuin' date='14 June 2010 - 09:35 AM' timestamp='1276518907' post='2128492']
His brother was not a priest. His brother Hilary was a farmer. His eldest son John was a priest, though - is that who you meant? (I don't recall what year he died, but I know he is deceased now; he said his father's funeral mass.) Looked it up: 2001.

Yes, it was a requirement if I went to England with my friends - I had to visit Tolkien's grave in Oxford, and they had to come with me to the Lord of the Rings musical showing in London. They were good sports .

Yes, I think people leave so many things at his grave that they have to clean it off, like, weekly . I left a small green stone there that I had brought from home.
[/quote]
One of the touching things I recall is that Tolkien and his wife did not have an unearthly blissful marriage, but one that was rocky and uneven and full of human shortcomings, they had a very human/mortal marriage and yet they stuck it out. Didn't the children do a great deal to motivate them to carry on? And of course the children were essential to the story-telling that would evolve into the great books.

[Innocent]

I found this tidbit today in the comments published along with an article:



[quote]
Many years ago I corresponded with Tolkien's son, a schoolmaster like myself. He said the Dark Riders in his novel were based on a real recurring nightmare from the Forst World War. Tolkien, riding a good cavlary horse, had somehow got lost behind the German lines,and, imagining he was behind his own trenches, rode towards a group of mounted cavalrymen standing in the shade of a coppice.

It was only when he drew nearer he realised his mistake for they German Ulhans, noted for their atrocities and taking no prisoners. When they saw him they set off in pursuit with their lances levelled at him. He swung his horse round and galloped off hotly pursued by the Germans. They had faster steeds but Tolkien's horse was a big-boned hunter.

They got near enough for him to see their skull and crossbone helmet badges. Fortunately for Tolkien (and us, his readers)he raced towards some old trenches which his horse, used to hunting, took in its stride. The Uhlans' horses weren't up to it and they reined in leaving Tolkien to get away to his own side.

He was terrified and the cruel faces of those Uhlans and their badges haunted him in nightmares for a long time afterwards. Years later, when he was writing his novel, the Dark Riders were the result of that terrifying chase.
[b]Revd John Waddington-Feather, Shrewsbury[/b][/quote] SOURCE: [url="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/5133000.stm"]BBC News: The Somme and Tolkien[/url]

[elizabeth09]

[img]http://cache.virtualtourist.com/1551913-grave_of_JRR_Tolkien-Oxford.jpg[/img]

Edited June 18, 2010 by elizabeth09

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='elizabeth09' date='18 June 2010 - 09:23 AM' timestamp='1276870985' post='2130868']
[img]http://cache.virtualtourist.com/1551913-grave_of_JRR_Tolkien-Oxford.jpg[/img]


[/quote]

Please tell me that's not Gwaihir.

~Sternhauser

[Innocent]

Does anyone know what the round drawing used in the front cover of the editions (1977 and 1999) of the [i]Silmarillion[/i] shown below is meant to be? I have read in several places that this was taken from the one of Tolkien's drawings.

[img]http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r30/prophet_o_peace/Phatmass/silmarillion-jrr-tolkien.jpg[/img] [img]http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r30/prophet_o_peace/Phatmass/Silmarillion.jpg[/img]

The same design, in gold, is used in the [url="http://www.tolkienlibrary.com/press/The_Silmarillion_30th_Anniversary_de_luxe_edition.php?109"]Deluxe edition of the [i]Silmarillion. [/i][/url]

Edited June 20, 2010 by Innocent

[sarcasmguy126]

Just finished reading all three of the LOTR books, may never read the appendices. Love those stories; superb writing in every way: Suspense, humor, drama, beautiful, spine tingling descriptions and relationships between characters. Wonderful!

[Innocent]

[quote name='sarcasmguy126' date='24 June 2010 - 08:13 AM' timestamp='1277343803' post='2133485']...may never read the appendices.
[/quote]

No, no. Don't give up. Force yourself you read at least Appendix A alone, please. You'll be glad you did.

Think of it as an act of self-mortification or an exercise in self-discipline if it helps.


You'll love them if you liked the book. Don't you want to read of how Aragon and Arwen met and fell in love? Or how the Rohirrim settled in Rohan? Or what Aragon meant when he said, "Nor indeed am I a stranger; for I have been in this land before, more than once, and ridden with the host of the Rohirrim, though under other name and in other guise?"

Edited June 24, 2010 by Innocent

[lookingforfaith]

The LOTR books are my father's favorite. He has read them at least 10 times each...and is always talking about them. He made me read them when I was 11. And boy am I glad I did...they are my favorites now too! (Or at least at the top of my list of favorites [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/lol_grin.gif[/img] )

[MithLuin]

[quote name='Innocent' date='20 June 2010 - 12:26 AM' timestamp='1277004399' post='2131649']
Does anyone know what the round drawing used in the front cover of the editions (1977 and 1999) of the [i]Silmarillion[/i] shown below is meant to be? I have read in several places that this was taken from the one of Tolkien's drawings.

The same design, in gold, is used in the [url="http://www.tolkienlibrary.com/press/The_Silmarillion_30th_Anniversary_de_luxe_edition.php?109"]Deluxe edition of the [i]Silmarillion. [/i][/url]
[/quote]

Yes. Tolkien drew heraldic devices for most of the houses of the elves. This one is Luthien's, I believe. If you are interested in elven heraldry, read [url=http://www.forodrim.org/gobennas/heraldry/heraldry.htm]this page[/url]. Sometimes the level of detail put into these stories is a bit scary..... Tolkien took world-building more seriously than anyone else I have come across - mostly because of his focus on language, but really...everything. He wanted to make sure the phases of the moon lined up with his story, that his descriptions of weather were appropriate for the terrain and latitude... most people simply do not care that much.

[Innocent]

[quote name='MithLuin' date='24 June 2010 - 10:34 PM' timestamp='1277395499' post='2133627']
Yes. Tolkien drew heraldic devices for most of the houses of the elves. This one is Luthien's, I believe. If you are interested in elven heraldry, read [url=http://www.forodrim.org/gobennas/heraldry/heraldry.htm]this page[/url]. Sometimes the level of detail put into these stories is a bit scary..... Tolkien took world-building more seriously than anyone else I have come across - mostly because of his focus on language, but really...everything. He wanted to make sure the phases of the moon lined up with his story, that his descriptions of weather were appropriate for the terrain and latitude... most people simply do not care that much.
[/quote]

Thanks for the link to the page with the heraldic devices!


If I ever build a house, I think I'm going to put up Beren's heraldry somewhere prominent on the front wall.

Edited June 24, 2010 by Innocent

[ThePenciledOne]

[quote name='MithLuin' date='24 June 2010 - 01:04 PM' timestamp='1277395499' post='2133627']
Yes. Tolkien drew heraldic devices for most of the houses of the elves. This one is Luthien's, I believe. If you are interested in elven heraldry, read [url="http://www.forodrim.org/gobennas/heraldry/heraldry.htm"]this page[/url]. Sometimes the level of detail put into these stories is a bit scary..... Tolkien took world-building more seriously than anyone else I have come across - mostly because of his focus on language, but really...everything. He wanted to make sure the phases of the moon lined up with his story, that his descriptions of weather were appropriate for the terrain and latitude... most people simply do not care that much.
[/quote]

Thank you for the link!!! I love arms and banners like that. I have worked on some of my own for my fantasy novel as well, and there is just something unique about it.

I personally love Feanor's/Fingolfin's device. : )

[Innocent]

Now I also understand what the emblem on Earendil's ship meant:

[img]http://img-fan.theonering.net/rolozo/images/nasmith/sil-earendil.jpg[/img]

[Katherine of Aragon]

Huge Tolkien fan here. I read the Silmarillion as a child so often that my parents, concerned that their 9-year-old was reading nothing else, took it away and hid it until I read four or five other books. I knocked them out in two days to get my Silmarillion back!

In my half-dozen daughters' names we have a Luthien, a Laurelin, and a Celebrindal.