Paranormal Experiences

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='12 June 2010 - 11:42 PM' timestamp='1276404135' post='2127983']
I find the idea of ghosts very interesting too. I'm not 100% sure what to make of it from a Catholic perspective.
I grew up believing in ghosts. Now I'm not so sure that they are what I always thought they are. We've discussed this on PM before, but I'm not sure if there could be any reason for a soul to be "left behind" like a lot of hauntings are attributed to, where the "ghost" appears to maybe not realize he's dead, or whatever. I believe in demonic activity far, far more readily than that.
[/quote]

Except that, except for poltergeists, as I understand it, most ghosts are harmless--particularly "family ghosts" who have been sighted regularly for centures. That would seem to rule out demonic activity.

But, I admit, I don't really understand what ghosts are. I wouldn't believe in them at all if it weren't for the fact that otherwise sane, normal people experience ghosts on a regular basis, and don't think it's a big deal.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='12 June 2010 - 11:58 PM' timestamp='1276405082' post='2127995']
Except that, except for poltergeists, as I understand it, most ghosts are harmless--particularly "family ghosts" who have been sighted regularly for centures. That would seem to rule out demonic activity.

But, I admit, I don't really understand what ghosts are. I wouldn't believe in them at all if it weren't for the fact that otherwise sane, normal people experience ghosts on a regular basis, and don't think it's a big deal.
[/quote]
I've read my share of supposedly true stories with evil ghosts. I read a lot of compilations of "true" ghost stories back in elementary and junior high. I would speculate that every "evil ghost" is demonic in origin, and I suppose on the flip side, "good ghosts" may well be angelic.

It's the family ghost kind of deal that I just don't get. If it's a real phenomenon, I can't understand why God would allow a soul to remain on the earth for so long. Maybe it could be theorized that the soul is experiencing Purgatory and the physical world simultaneously...? I just don't know.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='13 June 2010 - 12:06 AM' timestamp='1276405587' post='2127999']
I've read my share of supposedly true stories with evil ghosts. I read a lot of compilations of "true" ghost stories back in elementary and junior high. I would speculate that every "evil ghost" is demonic in origin, and I suppose on the flip side, "good ghosts" may well be angelic.

It's the family ghost kind of deal that I just don't get. If it's a real phenomenon, I can't understand why God would allow a soul to remain on the earth for so long. Maybe it could be theorized that the soul is experiencing Purgatory and the physical world simultaneously...? I just don't know.
[/quote]
To add:

The idea of poltergeists is another interesting thing. In most of the stories I read, the poltergeist is seen as a morally neutral entity that happens to like moving things, etc.. They appear to rarely if ever actually harm people. They just like being annoying. Even if you're willing to argue for a Purgatory explanation for some ghosts, poltergeists are even harder to explain away.

Edit to add: I just remembered that in most stories I read, poltergeist activity is somehow linked to a person, often an adolescent. Maybe this isn't a separate entity at all, but rather a manifestation of something more personal?

Edited June 13, 2010 by Nihil Obstat

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='13 June 2010 - 12:09 AM' timestamp='1276405754' post='2128002']
To add:

The idea of poltergeists is another interesting thing. In most of the stories I read, the poltergeist is seen as a morally neutral entity that happens to like moving things, etc.. They appear to rarely if ever actually harm people. They just like being annoying. Even if you're willing to argue for a Purgatory explanation for some ghosts, poltergeists are even harder to explain away.

Edit to add: I just remembered that in most stories I read, poltergeist activity is somehow linked to a person, often an adolescent. Maybe this isn't a separate entity at all, but rather a manifestation of something more personal?
[/quote]

I think poltergeists are different than ghosts, because they do seem to be some sort of manifestation of someone who is upset, confused, angry, etc. Precisely how that manifestation comes about, I can't begin to guess.

This discussion makes me wonder if the Vatican has ghosts. You'd think it would be a likely place to find them. Old building. Lots of people have lived there. I may look it up on the Internet. But, so far, I've relegated ghosts to the nook in my brain for things I will never understand, and although part of me would like to see one, another part of me would just as soon remain in ignorance.

The Magisterium doesn't try to cover EVERY subject--or does it? Is it possible that there are things that happen after death that are not addressed under the Magisterum? I'm not questioning the Magisterium. I'm simply ignorant of the breadth of subjects, for example, related to death, that the Magisterium is intended or expected to cover.

[rhetoricfemme]

1. Yes, I believe I've had a supernatural experience.
2. [s]I answered, "no," because I'm pretty sure I've only ever had the one experience. To my knowledge.[/s] I just remembered another occasion, so I should change my answer to, "Multiple unrelated supernatural experiences.
3. I'm borderline neutral and credulous. I have always believed strongly in the supernatural. Still, I recognize that we can allow ourselves to see things that we really want to see.

My father passed away a few years ago, and my mother has kept his room generally the same. They slept separately when he started getting sick; he needed the physical space, and it was a quieter environment for him when he really needed the rest. Anyways. A long while after he'd passed on, I was walking by his room one night, and I am positive that I saw part of him standing there. It was most strange, because it was him from the legs down. I may have imagined it, but I'd like to think that I'm a bit more objective than that, and I don't necessarily romanticize that my deceased loved ones are hiding around every corner. However, I am positive that my Dad continues to be an active part of my life from Heaven.

The other occurrence was very random. And I'll admit that it could have been my eyes. The first time that Hubs and I had moved into a new house (new to us), I was cleaning up the kitchen one afternoon, and was up on a step ladder. Out of the corner of my eye I noticed a girl standing a foot or two away from me. I even began to talk to her, because she looked just like our friend who we gave permission to just let herself in. It was a few seconds before I realized that I had no clue who this person was, and I kind of freaked out. Then I felt bad about it. Another reason I'm sold on it not being my eyes playing tricks on me is because this girl was wearing either all pale yellow or white and had long blond hair, and that day I was wearing all black, and I've got dark hair, which was pulled back and not able to obstruct my vision. Still, I have to admit that there were several white trash bags with the sun shining onto them sitting in the kitchen. So yeah. Who knows?

I've always had a keen interest in legitimately paranormal things, and even at one point considered going to grad school for psychology so I could find a concentration in parapsychology (good luck with that, right?). On the other hand, I can scare myself witless, and don't want to allow myself to learn too much about this or that, lest I think about it too much.

So I probably shouldn't be reading Father Amorth's books right now, but I am anyways...

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='13 June 2010 - 12:20 AM' timestamp='1276406443' post='2128004']
I think poltergeists are different than ghosts, because they do seem to be some sort of manifestation of someone who is upset, confused, angry, etc. Precisely how that manifestation comes about, I can't begin to guess.

This discussion makes me wonder if the Vatican has ghosts. You'd think it would be a likely place to find them. Old building. Lots of people have lived there. I may look it up on the Internet. But, so far, I've relegated ghosts to the nook in my brain for things I will never understand, and although part of me would like to see one, another part of me would just as soon remain in ignorance.

The Magisterium doesn't try to cover EVERY subject--or does it? Is it possible that there are things that happen after death that are not addressed under the Magisterum? I'm not questioning the Magisterium. I'm simply ignorant of the breadth of subjects, for example, related to death, that the Magisterium is intended or expected to cover.
[/quote]
The Magisterium would never say "a haunting occurred here", but what it could say, were it true, is that "situation XYZ is theologically impossible for these reasons." It has been taught infallibly that a soul is judged immediately after death, which at first glance appears to hurt the idea of ghosts, although my rationalization is still a possibility.

[Ed Normile]

I would think that all ghosts or apparitions are actually demonic in nature, of course I am not including miraculous apparitions in this statement. I am speaking of things that go bump in the night, or haunted houses or buildings.These things do nothing to lead people towards God, they do allow your mind to wander to things not of God. To allow for ghosts or spirits that "have not crossed over" would be to assume that souls, which are from God, are somehow able to choose to stay earthbound or somehow escape his judgement. This belief places the ghost around the level of power as God, think of it like this, is God only capable of judging certain souls, and if that is the case are these souls above or more powerful than other souls which are judged by God at their death. This would seem to say that there are certain souls, like the way it is described by mediums and in print and movies, that are "restless" or have "unfinished business" so they just ignore the will of God and postpone their judgement until the time of their choosing when they are ready to " crossover" or " enter the light". This just seems like a ruse to deceive a human soul to place other interests and beliefs before God.

ed

[Marie-Therese]

Yes, I have had several experiences. I will PM you because I prefer not to speak of them publicly...the majority of my experiences have been negative, although there have been positive ones.

[Ash Wednesday]

Would have been nice to have an "I don't know" option for the first question. Sometimes even if you have an experience it doesn't mean you know what to make of it.

Edited June 13, 2010 by Ash Wednesday

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Ed Normile' date='13 June 2010 - 02:06 AM' timestamp='1276412803' post='2128023']
I would think that all ghosts or apparitions are actually demonic in nature, of course I am not including miraculous apparitions in this statement. I am speaking of things that go bump in the night, or haunted houses or buildings.These things do nothing to lead people towards God, they do allow your mind to wander to things not of God. To allow for ghosts or spirits that "have not crossed over" would be to assume that souls, which are from God, are somehow able to choose to stay earthbound or somehow escape his judgement. This belief places the ghost around the level of power as God, think of it like this, is God only capable of judging certain souls, and if that is the case are these souls above or more powerful than other souls which are judged by God at their death. This would seem to say that there are certain souls, like the way it is described by mediums and in print and movies, that are "restless" or have "unfinished business" so they just ignore the will of God and postpone their judgement until the time of their choosing when they are ready to " crossover" or " enter the light". This just seems like a ruse to deceive a human soul to place other interests and beliefs before God.

ed
[/quote]
What do you think of my idea above that the "restless soul" type of ghost is actually a soul currently experiencing purgatory?

[CatherineM]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='13 June 2010 - 09:57 AM' timestamp='1276441022' post='2128065']
What do you think of my idea above that the "restless soul" type of ghost is actually a soul currently experiencing purgatory?
[/quote]
I have often thought that exact thing.

[Laudate_Dominum]

I prefer scientific skepticism to paranormal belief.

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='13 June 2010 - 10:50 AM' timestamp='1276444233' post='2128081']
I prefer scientific skepticism to paranormal belief.
[/quote]

Oh, I'm skeptical. I think most "ghost sightings" are hoaxes. And, if I saw a ghost myself, I'd have to be intellectually satisfied that there was no way that a human agency could have engineered it.

But, I guess I've lived long enough to realize that there are things that happen in the world that I don't understand, and never will. But, some of the things I don't understand WILL be understood by scientists in the future, just as all the superstitions about the Black Plague were found to be groundless when science discovered that the Plague was caused by a bacteria.

[vee]

I've had a couple of experiences that I would credit to the intervention of my guardian angel and/or the Holy Spirit, and things happen due to the power of prayer such as saying the chaplet of Divine Mercy and someone suddenly getting better from pneumonia.

[ardillacid]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='13 June 2010 - 11:50 AM' timestamp='1276444233' post='2128081']
I prefer scientific skepticism to paranormal belief.
[/quote]
But you prefer scientific speculation to scientific scepticism