Nihil Obstat Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 [quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='12 June 2010 - 09:55 PM' timestamp='1276397757' post='2127932'] I've finally realized why you seem so smart, Nihil. (Well, besides the fact that you ARE smart.) The things that I read when I was in college were fresh in my brain--as they are in yours. However, in my case, years have passed, and worries about mortgages, careers, marriages, etc. have taken up a lot of the space in my brain that used to be available for knowledge and philosophy. Make the most of this time in your life, because, unless you become a theology or philosophy professor, or something related, you may never be as "smart" again. (I'm still "smart"--just in a different way than I was in college, and I'm smarter at different things than I was in college.) [/quote] Close, but in reality I'm just faking it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenchild17 Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 Since "Frankenstein" was brought up I thought I'd post this for those who haven't read it: http://www.ignatius.com/IProducts/23899/frankenstein.aspx Might have some interesting perspective on the topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 [quote name='goldenchild17' date='12 June 2010 - 10:10 PM' timestamp='1276398608' post='2127937'] Since "Frankenstein" was brought up I thought I'd post this for those who haven't read it: http://www.ignatius.com/IProducts/23899/frankenstein.aspx Might have some interesting perspective on the topic. [/quote] Have you read it? I'd love to look at it if I get a chance. I studied Frankenstein this year, and all the analysis just left me feeling underwhelmed and bored. Although I developed my own little take on it, regarding the concept of responsibility and taking responsibility rightly or wrongly. I was pretty proud of that analysis, even though I never got the opportunity to use it in class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenchild17 Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 I haven't been able to get that one yet, but every book in that series that I have read is pretty awesome imo. I want to collect the whole series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenchild17 Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 Here's a little preview of it though. http://books.google.com/books?id=X3kowpoNipQC&pg=PA278&dq=ignatius+critical+edition&as_brr=3&cd=10#v=onepage&q&f=false Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XIX Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 (edited) I wonder how all of this flushes out with heart transplants. Also, I didn't read the thread. so sry if this has been covered already. Edited June 13, 2010 by XIX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 [quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='12 June 2010 - 10:12 PM' timestamp='1276391542' post='2127882'] Aren't the mind and brain synonymous? Where else would our thoughts and feelings reside? I'm not sure it really matters what philosophers would theorize. Isn't it really a physiological question? Apparently there is some sort of "cell memory," but I think most of our memory and thoughts come from our brain, including what we would call our "spirit" or "soul." The reason I say this is that when the brain dies, the person's body remains. But, if you've ever seen a dead person (which, being Catholic, you probably have--many other religions often keep the coffin closed, and you never see the person dead), it's obvious that their spirit is no longer there, even though their body remains. I've never seen a brain-dead person (that is, someone who is truly brain-dead, but is being kept artifically "alive" for whatever reason--as opposed to someone in a coma, who is "still there"), but I would theorize that a brain-dead person would also appear to be without a "spirit" as well. Maybe someone who has actually seen a "brain dead" person would be able to tell us what it is like. [/quote] The mind and the brain are not synonymous. The mind/soul is the animating principle and I would argue is comprise of two different parts Intellect or rational soul and will or animal soul. The intellect is supposed to direct the will. The brain and spirit/soul/mind are not the same; however, Body and Soul are one. Just because you transfer a brain doesn't mean you transfer a mind or a soul. And what happens to the mind/soul of the previous person whose body you are transfer the brain into? Being is one. Think of the union between Brain and Mind. They are obviously united in that brain chemistry can cause people to feel a certain way but at the same time we acknowledge that these feelings don't determine action. Unity and distinction. Just because a brain is switched doesn't mean a soul, which is the animating principle, is? What would animate the person who has the new organ. The distinction between body and soul is there but there is no necessary unity. And as far as cell memory is concerned, it is more of a pop-science theory and has never been actually studied in any peer reviewed scientific journal. The idea is from some people claiming to have received memories after organ transplants who attribute some of their memories to those who donated their organs. Scholastics understood the body as the undivided mid-point posed between a total abandonment to the other and an intrinsic independence over against the other. One comes to know something in that things impress its form on the person. The body allows the mind to receive the form since the mind cannot come know things through and in itself (the mind just can't know something, it must encounter it but the soul can't reach out to something. It must have a symbol to make present itself to other beings and which in some way participates in the soul/mind so that the soul can come to know something when something "other" impresses itself on it. This is what is meant between the mid-point posed between total abandonment to the other and an intrinsic independence over against "the other." The brain is incredibly close to the mind and informs the soul of how it is impinged upon. This, however, does not mean that the mind accurately puts all the information that it receives from the body correctly about what is impinging upon it or accurately understand how it is encountering a particular example which participates in a universal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
add Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 (edited) The soul is the source of life for the body, but not its spiritual activities of thinking and choosing. For the spiritual faculties or brain, the powers of operation need Intellect and will - which flow from the essence of the soul The soul is not physical, nor nontransferable, as it is pure spirit. Edited June 13, 2010 by apparently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggamafu Posted June 13, 2010 Author Share Posted June 13, 2010 I wonder if, in receiving another person's brain, you would also receive their memories and lose your own? You would still have the same spirit, but subjectively, you would think you were the other person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
add Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='12 June 2010 - 11:49 PM' timestamp='1276397346' post='2127925'] While it's a common mistake to make, it turns out that Mary Shelly was neither a philosopher nor a Catholic theologian. I know, I was shocked too. [/quote] none the less, the fictional story does portray the limitations of brain transfer. [quote]Posted Yesterday, 07:43 PM by[b]IgnatiusofLoyola[/b] For whatever reason, this thread started meimagining what it would be like if Winchester's brain were transferred to mybody. Enjoy! [/quote] Would you call this thing a Frankinchester? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 (edited) [quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='12 June 2010 - 08:43 PM' timestamp='1276389837' post='2127873'] Socrates is probably more opposite of me in terms of temperament than Winchester is, but I think Winchester might actually find the transformation [b]intellectually [/b]interesting. [/quote] I don't think that word means what you think it means. Edited June 13, 2010 by Winchester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgnatiusofLoyola Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 [quote name='Winchester' date='13 June 2010 - 10:56 AM' timestamp='1276444577' post='2128087'] I don't think that word means what you think it means. [/quote] Are you saying that, rather than finding it a fascinating experience, you'd be horrified to find yourself in my body? [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/happy.gif[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 [quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='13 June 2010 - 12:06 PM' timestamp='1276445212' post='2128094'] Are you saying that, rather than finding it a fascinating experience, you'd be horrified to find yourself in my body? [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/happy.gif[/img] [/quote] A very interesting, and potentially awkward, way to phrase that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgnatiusofLoyola Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 [quote name='Hassan' date='13 June 2010 - 12:54 PM' timestamp='1276451697' post='2128126'] A very interesting, and potentially awkward, way to phrase that. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/huh.gif[/img] [/quote] For those who are pure of mind (including myself), and those who have read this thread, my sentence would not be misunderstood. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/saint.gif[/img] However, perhaps it would be more clear to say that Winchester would be horrified to wake up and find that doctors had performed a brain transplant, and had transplanted his brain into my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 (edited) [quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='13 June 2010 - 02:13 PM' timestamp='1276452814' post='2128131'] For those who are pure of mind (including myself). [/quote] What are you insinuating, Spaniard? Edited June 13, 2010 by Hassan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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