Animal / Human Hybrids

[toledo_jesus]

So we just recently had scientists introduce an artificial genome into a cell, programming it. Some are calling it the first artificial life form.
I said yes to the first one. I'd consider it a tragically deformed human being.

No to the second one, because I don't want to feel any guilt when Skynet goes live and we have to start popping caps in Terminator chassis.

[ThePenciledOne]

[quote name='toledo_jesus' date='07 June 2010 - 08:22 PM' timestamp='1275952977' post='2125402']
No to the second one, because I don't want to feel any guilt when Skynet goes live and we have to start popping caps in Terminator chassis.
[/quote]

I think I will be ok in my vote of no concerning the robots.

This[img]http://www.stuffwelike.com/stuffwelike/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/terminator.jpg[/img]


Is my support.

[KnightofChrist]

Would Commander Data have a soul if he/it actually existed?

[img] http://www.apennyforthought.com/upload/thought/medium_149.jpg[/img]

[Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='07 June 2010 - 03:34 PM' timestamp='1275935673' post='2125281']
In Eastern Christian theology the soul is the natural (created) principle of life, and in man this natural principle is rational, which is not the case with lower organisms; while the spirit is the (uncreated) energy of the Holy Spirit that indwells man conforming him to the divine likeness.
[/quote]

This understanding of energies doesn't seem to be any different from the scholastic understanding of grace. This energy or (uncreated) indwelling in man of God which conforms him to the divine likeness seems to be indistinguishable from what I have read concerning grace. I assume you would say it complete gratuitous gift of God's self to humanity which is a complete gift that humanity is not due in its humanity

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='07 June 2010 - 05:28 PM' timestamp='1275942486' post='2125336']
If the West believes that the [i]spirit[/i] indwelling man is the Holy Spirit as energy, i.e., that it is God Himself personally present in man, then East and West are in agreement.
[/quote]

This could get very hairy. What exactly do you mean by energy? Couldn't Spirit the way you are using be replaced with the word "grace"? I find in the west, some theologians use the word spirit and soul to denote the difference in spiritual character between human and animals/plants etc. No one would deny that God gives himself personally and makes himself present in man and that the Holy Spirit does this too. This past semester a friend of mine (a Greek Catholic) did his thesis on the essence/energies distinction in eastern theology and i did mine on the relationship between Creation and Grace. We had alot of interesting discussions. Actually he is on the boards and comments from time to time.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam' date='08 June 2010 - 12:45 AM' timestamp='1275979511' post='2125568']
This understanding of energies doesn't seem to be any different from the scholastic understanding of grace. This energy or (uncreated) indwelling in man of God which conforms him to the divine likeness seems to be indistinguishable from what I have read concerning grace. I assume you would say it complete gratuitous gift of God's self to humanity which is a complete gift that humanity is not due in its humanity.[/quote]
The Scholastics believed in created grace, which is a concept that is completely foreign to the Eastern tradition, but the idea that [i]grace[/i] ( in a general sense, whether it is held to be created as the Scholastics taught, or uncreated as the Eastern Fathers and mystics taught) restores the divine likeness lost in the fall is common to both East and West.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam' date='08 June 2010 - 12:45 AM' timestamp='1275979511' post='2125568']
This could get very hairy. What exactly do you mean by energy? Couldn't Spirit the way you are using be replaced with the word "grace"? I find in the west, some theologians use the word spirit and soul to denote the difference in spiritual character between human and animals/plants etc. No one would deny that God gives himself personally and makes himself present in man and that the Holy Spirit does this too. This past semester a friend of mine (a Greek Catholic) did his thesis on the essence/energies distinction in eastern theology and i did mine on the relationship between Creation and Grace. We had alot of interesting discussions. Actually he is on the boards and comments from time to time.
[/quote]
The divine energy is God as He is participable, and the whole of creation exists in the divine energy in a non-volitional sense; while simultaneously existing in man through the practice of virtue. It is the latter alone that properly brings about [i]theosis[/i] (see St. Gregory Palamas, [i]Capita Physica[/i], no. 78).

Eastern theologians hold that the soul is a natural (i.e., created) principle of life common to all contingent beings, but that man's soul is distinguished from that of other creatures in that it is rational and possesses other qualities that image God (e.g., free will, and the ability to actualize various virtues). The term spirit - in Byzantine theology - refers properly to God alone, and so when the spirit is spoken of in connection with man it refers to man as he is regenerated through faith and baptism, and through participation in the other holy mysteries, i.e., it refers to man as he reflects the trinity (see St. Irenaeus, [i]Adversus Haereses[/i], Book 5, Chapter 6).

Edited June 8, 2010 by Apotheoun

[Ziggamafu]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='08 June 2010 - 03:15 AM' timestamp='1275981340' post='2125571']
The divine energy is God as He is participable, and the whole of creation exists in the divine energy in a non-volitional sense; while simultaneously existing in man through the practice of virtue. It is the latter alone that properly brings about [i]theosis[/i] (see St. Gregory Palamas, [i]Capita Physica[/i], no. 78).

Eastern theologians hold that the soul is a natural (i.e., created) principle of life common to all contingent beings, but that man's soul is distinguished from that of other creatures in that it is rational and possesses other qualities that image God (e.g., free will, and the ability to actualize various virtues). The term spirit - in Byzantine theology - refers properly to God alone, and so when the spirit is spoken of in connection with man it refers to man as he is regenerated through faith and baptism, and through participation in the other holy mysteries, i.e., it refers to man as he reflects the trinity (see St. Irenaeus, [i]Adversus Haereses[/i], Book 5, Chapter 6).
[/quote]

So does the East believe a man does not have a spirit until he is baptized?

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Ziggamafu' date='08 June 2010 - 07:16 AM' timestamp='1276002960' post='2125602']
So does the East believe a man does not have a spirit until he is baptized?
[/quote]
That is the gist of what St. Irenaeus taught, and his teaching is normative for the East . . . bearing in mind the distinction I made between non-volitional and volitional participation in the divine energy.

[mommas_boy]

I agree with the yes/no conclusions above. Since the animal/human hybrid takes (in part) its substance from its human parent, then it inherits a soul from its human parent. That is the only way that I view a soul as being able to be conferred, because it must be inherited directly from Adam and Eve.

In the case of a robot, there is (not yet) a mechanism for a human and robot to comingle genetic information so as to produce a hybrid biomechanical construct that takes its substance from human and robotic partners. Barring this, no other method allows for a robot to inherit a soul from Adam and Eve.

[Laudate_Dominum]

Hibridos animal-humano son una abominación atroz. Sin embargo, un cerdo 90% con las secuencias de genes humanos pueden ser simplemente un animal modificado genéticamente. Aunque, un ser humano el 90% genético con material genético extraño "empalmado" en el genoma puede ser mejor considerado como un ser humano con graves deformidades genéticas. Quiero decir que creo que los datos deben ser tomados en cuenta. Por el momento no sé dónde trazar la línea entre humanos y animales.

Quizás en el futuro las definiciones legales claras tendrán que ser resueltos. En este caso yo creo en errar en el lado de la precaución. Un porcentaje simple del genoma puede no ser adecuada. ¿Y si es posible para aumentar un cerebro animal hasta el punto de expresión y formas humanas de la cognición, mientras que deja a la mayoría del genoma animal intacto? Puede que no haya prueba sencilla. En mi opinión la mejor solución es prohibir la mezcla de animales y seres humanos en cualquier nivel.
Tengo mucho más que decir sino que debe ir por ahora.

[Resurrexi]

tl;dr

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='10 June 2010 - 01:36 AM' timestamp='1276090563' post='2126301']
Hibridos animal-humano son una abominación atroz. Sin embargo, un cerdo 90% con las secuencias de genes humanos pueden ser simplemente un animal modificado genéticamente. Aunque, un ser humano el 90% genético con material genético extraño "empalmado" en el genoma puede ser mejor considerado como un ser humano con graves deformidades genéticas. Quiero decir que creo que los datos deben ser tomados en cuenta. Por el momento no sé dónde trazar la línea entre humanos y animales.

Quizás en el futuro las definiciones legales claras tendrán que ser resueltos. En este caso yo creo en errar en el lado de la precaución. Un porcentaje simple del genoma puede no ser adecuada. ¿Y si es posible para aumentar un cerebro animal hasta el punto de expresión y formas humanas de la cognición, mientras que deja a la mayoría del genoma animal intacto? Puede que no haya prueba sencilla. En mi opinión la mejor solución es prohibir la mezcla de animales y seres humanos en cualquier nivel.
Tengo mucho más que decir sino que debe ir por ahora.
[/quote]

que!

[mommas_boy]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='09 June 2010 - 09:36 AM' timestamp='1276090563' post='2126301']
Hibridos animal-humano son una abominación atroz. Sin embargo, un cerdo 90% con las secuencias de genes humanos pueden ser simplemente un animal modificado genéticamente. Aunque, un ser humano el 90% genético con material genético extraño "empalmado" en el genoma puede ser mejor considerado como un ser humano con graves deformidades genéticas. Quiero decir que creo que los datos deben ser tomados en cuenta. Por el momento no sé dónde trazar la línea entre humanos y animales.

Quizás en el futuro las definiciones legales claras tendrán que ser resueltos. En este caso yo creo en errar en el lado de la precaución. Un porcentaje simple del genoma puede no ser adecuada. ¿Y si es posible para aumentar un cerebro animal hasta el punto de expresión y formas humanas de la cognición, mientras que deja a la mayoría del genoma animal intacto? Puede que no haya prueba sencilla. En mi opinión la mejor solución es prohibir la mezcla de animales y seres humanos en cualquier nivel.
Tengo mucho más que decir sino que debe ir por ahora.
[/quote]

Rough translation, because I suspect that this was copied and pasted into Google Translate (and some sentences just don't make sense).

[quote]
Animal-human hybrids are an atrocious abomination. Without exception, a 90% pig with the genetic sequences of a human can simply be a genetically modified animal. Although, a 90% genetically-modified human being with foreign genetic material "spliced" into the genome can be better considered as a human being with grave genetic deformities. I want to say that I believe that the data should be taken into account. For the moment, I don't know where to draw the line between humans and animals.

Perhaps in the future, clear legal definitions will result. in this case, I believe in erring on the side of caution. A simple percentage of the genome cannot be adequate. Is it possible to increase an animal brain to the point of expression and human form of cognition, while leaving the better part of the animal genome intact? There can be no simple test. In my opinion, the best solution is to prohibit the mixing of animals and human beings on whatever level.

I have much more to say but should go for now.
[/quote]

Edited June 10, 2010 by mommas_boy

[Laudate_Dominum]

How dare you. You have no right to release this unauthorized translation of my intellectual property.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='mommas_boy' date='10 June 2010 - 02:56 AM' timestamp='1276153013' post='2126679']
Rough translation, because I suspect that this was copied and pasted into Google Translate (and some sentences just don't make sense).
[/quote]
Wrong. Btw, I know good English and do not require your translation services. That post is not your concern.