Eternity

[kafka]

I feel like I am highjacking the other thread, so why not start a new one with the purpose of studying and meditating God who is Eternity in theology, philosophy, art and our own reflections as we pass through space and time moving ever closer to that moment when Eternity completely subsumes us.

Human nature longs for the Divine Nature who is Eternity. Considering Eternity is in one sense a radically abstract endeavor, yet in another sense it is extreme in its practicality. It is relevant to everyone. It is reaches to the heart of one's heart. Tell me who does not want to live forever? Yet the only way to live forever is to live with God who is Eternity. So we must order our search toward Him and discover what He has revealed to us about Time and Himself.

Eternity

He who binds to himself a joy
Does the winged life destroy;
But he who kisses the joy as it flies
Lives in eternity’s sun rise.

William Blake

Edited June 4, 2010 by kafka

[kafka]

Saint Augustine expresses some of the most eloquent meditations of Eternity known to us. These are a living transmission of Sacred Tradition. Lets dialogue with Saint Augustine in his eleventh book of the Confessions:

5. "Let me hear and understand how in the beginning You made heaven and earth. Moses wrote of this; he wrote and passed on--moving from Thee to Thee--and he is now no longer before me."

O God you transcend everything. You are beyond all Space and Time, and being beyond all Space and Time you are present within all Space and Time. Yet your being is your doing and so You are acting at all Times and in all Places. And this acting is not distributed into peices-it is One-for You are the One Eternal Triune Act.

I in this Place at this Time am with You. And I for better or for worse will go nowhere other than to You. Yet to go to you is impossible for you are everywhere and nowhere. And so you must take me up to you. For you subsume all Time and all Place and all creatures within. And I am poor finite fallen wretch am stuck helpless in Time. Please help me. You who hold my past, present and future together in One Divine Eternal Loving Embrace. And I experience this with, in and through You. And Moses and Augustine will rejoice in You, because You alone will save me.

Edited June 4, 2010 by kafka

[Bennn]

Eternity with God is that one, blessed moment which will never end. The ultimate joy exceeding space and time, which can't be grasped by those who have yet to cross these boundaries. Many people are indeed afraid of 'living forever', but that fear is useless when speaking of eternal life with Christ. It isn't the same. Not even one moment of boredom or dissatisfaction can infiltrate the Beatific Vision of God, in which the communion of the blessed participate.

+Pax Domini,
Ben

[kafka]

Augustine (continued)

"Who shall hold it and fix it so that it may come to rest for a little; and then, by degrees, glimpse the glory of that eternity which abides forever; and then, comparing eternity with the temporal process in which nothing abides, they may see that they are incommensurable? They would see that a long time does not become long, except from the many separate events that occur in its passage, which cannot be simultaneous. In the Eternal, on the other hand, nothing passes away, but the whole is simultaneously present. But no temporal process is wholly simultaneous. Therefore, let it see that all time past is forced to move on by the incoming future; that all the future follows from the past; and that all, past and future, is created and issues out of that which is forever present.

Who will hold the heart of man that it may stand still and see how the eternity which always stands still is itself neither future nor past but expresses itself in the times that are future and past? Can my hand do this, or can the hand of my mouth bring about so difficult a thing even by persuasion?"

[Tridenteen]

JMJ
Eternity. It is a choice that is vast and concrete. Where you will spend Eternity is up to your own desiring. You cannot wish to go to Heaven and find yourself in Hell. And you cannot thrive on evil and spend Eternity in Heaven. If one desires God deeply and longingly, they will spend Eternity in Heaven. And if one is repulsed by all that is good and beautiful in this world, they are repulsed by the Creator of this word, who can only make goodness and beauty. And f they are repulsed by this, they are indeed sold by themselves alone to the Distorter of Creation, the creature who was Created but shunned the Creator.

[kafka]

Will continue with Augustine later.

Here is the fourth movement of the Catholic classical composer Olivier Messiaen's Quartet for the End of Time. My understanding is that 'The End of Time' refers more to a musical expression of transcendence of God's all in all in the next age more than the upheaval and tribulation leading up to the very last events of this first age.

Here is the notes for the fourth movement:

V. "Praise to the eternity of Jesus", for cello and piano.

Jesus is considered here as the Word. A broad phrase, "infinitely slow", on the cello, magnifies with love and reverence the eternity of the Word, powerful and gentle, "whose time never runs out". The melody stretches majestically into a kind of gentle, regal distance. "In the beginning was the Word, and Word was with God, and the Word was God." (John 1:1)

This is some interesting music.

Here is a good version:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyM6VNFxZGc&feature=related[/media]

and an electronic version played on the Ondes Martenot

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8i8V0sjICk&feature=related[/media]

[JTheresa]

Ah!! Contemplating Eternity!!! My very favorite pastime!!!

Just the thought of anything that has no ending point blows my mind, let a lone spending in perfect joy with Our Lord and all the angels and saints!!! I could literally sit and talk "forever" with my Guardian Angel and still be home in time for supper.
I'm officially blow away.


Is it here yet?

[Bennn]

At some times, God will expand time when you are praying. Especially consecrated religious will agree that they have had this experience. It's a foretaste of Heaven.

+Pax Domini,
Ben

[kafka]

Saint Augustine Confessions Book XI, Chapter XI

"They would see that a long time does not become long, except from the many separate events that occur in its passage, which cannot be simultaneous. In the Eternal, on the other hand, nothing passes away, but the whole is simultaneously present. But no temporal process is wholly simultaneous."

So what this teaches me is that God is at and in the past, present and future in One Divine Eternal Act, simultaneously whole. God is in a true sense already in the future. He knows and understands it perfectly and infallibly, fully. There is no way of explaining this seeming contradiction. And because He is/does a whole and simultaneous, God:

'puts together Creation, by seeing and understanding all persons, things, and events—everywhere and everywhen—and how they all best fit together, all at once. God creates all things, answers all prayers, performs all miracles, dispenses all Grace, governs all Creation with His Providence, throughout all Time and all Place and all Creation, all in One Divine Eternal Act.' (Conte, Time and Eternity)

(Augustine continued)
"Therefore, let it [the heart and mind] see that all time past is forced to move on by the incoming future; that all the future follows from the past; and that all, past and future, is created and issues out of that which is forever present [Eternity who is God]. Who will hold the heart of man that it may stand still and see how the eternity which always stands still is itself neither future nor past but expresses itself in the times that are future and past? Can my hand do this, or can the hand of my mouth bring about so difficult a thing even by persuasion?"

Can any new theological system (such as Open Theism) presume to do this?

[N/A Gone]

Open theism does not lose the attributes of God by viewing the future differently, we just lose the weird contradiction of claiming "everything at one moment."

[kafka]

[quote name='Revprodeji' date='08 June 2010 - 05:22 PM' timestamp='1276032144' post='2125894']
Open theism does not lose the attributes of God by viewing the future differently, we just lose the weird contradiction of claiming "everything at one moment."
[/quote]
My understanding is that everything at 'one moment' when it refers to God who is Eternity is a figure of speech. It should not be taken as literal. God is not 'one moment.' That is clear.

There is really no way of us who are stuck in the limit of space and time not to mention a finite and fallen mind to fully describe Eternity, Pure Act and His relation to space/time. So figures of speech and half explanations are always going to be inadequate. Even in Sacred Scripture the Holy Spirit is limited to figures of speech and a limited use of language (albeit inerrant and infallible) to describe and assert that which really cannot be or seems contradictory.

So maybe Open Theism has some good things to probe, but a quick look at it seems like the system is missing the utter simplicity of it all. Maybe you could add and clarify from your understanding Rev?