Does Being Pro-Choice Mean I Have To Support Michelle Duggar?

[littleflower+JMJ]

Reposted from: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lilit-marcus/does-being-pro-choice-mea_b_590239.html

Everyone's got their guilty pleasure TV show, and mine is 19 and Kids and Counting (formerly 18 Kids and Counting, formerly 17 Kids and Counting, etc) on the TLC channel. The show stars the Duggar family, a fundamentalist Christian clan in Arkansas who put Jesus in charge of their womb and homeschool their ever-growing brood. Jim-Bob and Michelle Duggar are the parents of 19 kids, the oldest of whom is 21 and married with a baby of his own and the youngest of whom is a micropreemie who has been in a hospital incubator almost every day of her life. Said micropreemie, Josie, (all the Duggar kids' names start with J, including Jinger) has brought a new kind of attention on the Duggar family, who are usually trotted out as examples of sterling family values or just gaped at for their hugeness.

As a longtime viewer of the show (and before that, the semi-regular specials that first introduced the country to the Duggars), I really do feel like I know the members of the family. There are some I'd hang out with, some who would drive me crazy, and some who are really freakin' adorable. But the one I'm the most obsessed with is the matriarch Michelle herself. She has won numerous Mother of the Year awards and appears at Christian moms' conferences to give parenting tips. (One such tip: if you're feeling overwhelmed by all the work, pray for a "laundry angel.") However, for all her accolades as a mother, it doesn't really seem like Michelle does a whole lot of, well, mothering. Because she's constantly pregnant, the work of taking care of the house and children usually falls to the four oldest Duggar daughters, who are all in their teens or early twenties. Thanks to the Duggars' strictly enforced gender norms, it falls to the girls to cook, shop, clean, do laundry, potty-train, and homeschool their younger siblings with little, if any, help from their brothers. When toddler Jennifer skins her knee and starts crying, it's not her mother she calls out for -- it's her sister Jill. Unlike Michelle, these four young women didn't choose to become mothers -- the role has been forced upon them because their own mom is too busy making media appearances and more babies.

As a pro-choice woman, Michelle Duggar is the absolute test of my beliefs. I believe that choice means a woman can have kids or not have kids as she wants to, and that she should be able to control the size of her family as she sees fit. But when that choice is taken to an incredible extreme -- 19 children, one of whom is battling health conditions in the hospital -- part of me just wants to tell the Duggars to quit it already. Despite Josie's fragile condition, Michelle and Jim-Bob have both said that they leave their family planning up to God, and that if he chooses to "close their womb," he will. Michelle, who is only 43, seems still to be in her childbearing years. Due to their beliefs, the couple will not use any contraception or natural family planning, so, unless they choose to abstain, it seems like Duggar Child #20 is an inevitability. There's a part of me that wants to shake Michelle really, really hard and tell her about the increased risks of pregnancy at her age and fecundity, although it's entirely likely she's already aware of those facts and chooses to ignore them. I also want to show her the 19 other great kids she already has and whom she hardly ever spends time with. (During one famous scene in a previous special, Michelle was listing her kids' names and some qualities about them -- as she got further down the list she had less and less to say about each kid.) Then again, being pro-choice means that I have to respect every choice, even the ones I disagree with: to paraphrase Larry Flynt, "Free speech isn't about protecting speech you like, it's about protecting speech you hate."

I should support Michelle's right to have as many kids as she wants to, but I'll tell you what I don't support: the effects her choices have on other people, namely her kids. Having kids isn't some sort of contest. Michelle doesn't seem super interested in raising the kids or being involved in their lives once they've finished breastfeeding. As a result, she's making choices for her teen daughters, and they're not great ones. Instead of going to college, having part-time jobs, or dating, her daughters are spending their teen years raising their mother's children. And that's no kind of choice I can get behind.

---------------------------------------

I find it ironic that if every need is not met for every child, then a child shouldn't be born mentality in the article and in the reader comments. Does life do that?

[Hilde]

Strawman arguments.

[Semper Catholic]

I find it sad all the way around.

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='Semper Catholic' date='30 May 2010 - 12:03 PM' timestamp='1275235419' post='2120685']
I find it sad all the way around.
[/quote]
I, too, find being pro-choice a sad position all the way around.

[rhetoricfemme]

I've got no problem with the Duggars, and I don't think they're doing their children a disservice. In a family you help each other out. Their family just happens to be larger, so there's more responsibility to go around.

Even if a child born to the Michelle and Bob Duggar don't necessarily feel close to their parents, it seems like they could never have any doubt that they will be loved and taken care of, and that anyone in their family (including their parents) will do everything they're able to to protect their quality of life.


And yes, if a person is going to choose to be pro-choice, I do think they should support Michelle Duggar.

[Era Might]

[quote name='littleflower+JMJ' date='30 May 2010 - 11:55 AM' timestamp='1275234913' post='2120681']Instead of going to college, having part-time jobs, or dating, her daughters are spending their teen years raising their mother's children. And that's no kind of choice I can get behind.[/quote]
"Their mother's children"? Where I come from we call those brothers and sisters.

"Going to college, having part-time jobs, or dating." I'm much more concerned about teens who are doing THESE things. Just what young people need...more of them spending exorbitant amounts of money on a four-year vacation from real life...more young people working part-time jobs so they can earn money to buy more iPods and go to more movies (yet another vacation from real life)...more young people with no sense of vocation "dating" in meaningless teenage romances.

Taking care of one's brothers and sisters is probably the most practically useful thing I can imagine teens doing in this day and age. I bet the Duggar children are more aware of real life than the average teen on a date at the movies.

(Note: I've never seen the Duggars' show, so my comments are just a general response to the article.)

Edited May 30, 2010 by Era Might

[littleflower+JMJ]

[quote name='Era Might' date='30 May 2010 - 12:33 PM' timestamp='1275237209' post='2120698']
"Their mother's children"? Where I come from we call those brothers and sisters.

"Going to college, having part-time jobs, or dating." I'm much more concerned about teens who are doing THESE things. Just what we need...more people spending exorbitant amounts of money in a four-year vacation from real life...more people working part-time jobs so they can earn money to buy more iPods and go to more movies (yet another vacation from real life)...more young people with no sense of vocation "dating" in meaningless teenage romances.

Taking care of one's brothers and sisters is probably the most practically useful thing I can imagine teens doing in this day and age. I bet the Duggar children are more plugged into real life than the teens on dates at the movies.

(Note: I've never seen the Duggars' show, so my comments are just a general response to the article.)
[/quote]

That was *exactly* what I was thinking when I read that part and couldn't agree more. Its so sad how our kids are growing up with "everything they need/want" materialistic but nothing family or values.

[Hilde]

"On the one hand I think women should be able to terminate their pregnancy(a.k.a a person's life) on the other and I'm not sure I like it when people get a lot of kids"

This is what this quasi-reflection sounds like to me. THAT is "the ultimate test" of her beliefs? I thought there would be others.

[Semper Catholic]

[quote name='Era Might' date='30 May 2010 - 11:33 AM' timestamp='1275237209' post='2120698']
"Their mother's children"? Where I come from we call those brothers and sisters.

"Going to college, having part-time jobs, or dating." I'm much more concerned about teens who are doing THESE things. Just what young people need...more of them spending exorbitant amounts of money on a four-year vacation from real life...more young people working part-time jobs so they can earn money to buy more iPods and go to more movies (yet another vacation from real life)...more young people with no sense of vocation "dating" in meaningless teenage romances.

Taking care of one's brothers and sisters is probably the most practically useful thing I can imagine teens doing in this day and age. I bet the Duggar children are more aware of real life than the average teen on a date at the movies.

(Note: I've never seen the Duggars' show, so my comments are just a general response to the article.)
[/quote]

So going to college, working, and dating is cause for concern? Geez I thought all those things were good, or at the least normal? And what's wrong with spending money on Ipods, or enjoying a movie?

Didn't know that all those things were a vacation from real life. Pretty sure all of that stuff is real life. You're not dreaming about your Ipod.

I hope you can get out and have some fun on the long weekend man, just make sure it stays real for you.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Era Might' date='30 May 2010 - 12:33 PM' timestamp='1275237209' post='2120698']
"Their mother's children"? Where I come from we call those brothers and sisters.

"Going to college, having part-time jobs, or dating." I'm much more concerned about teens who are doing THESE things. Just what young people need...more of them spending exorbitant amounts of money on a four-year vacation from real life...more young people working part-time jobs so they can earn money to buy more iPods and go to more movies (yet another vacation from real life)...more young people with no sense of vocation "dating" in meaningless teenage romances.

Taking care of one's brothers and sisters is probably the most practically useful thing I can imagine teens doing in this day and age. I bet the Duggar children are more aware of real life than the average teen on a date at the movies.

(Note: I've never seen the Duggars' show, so my comments are just a general response to the article.)
[/quote]


It seems like you are somewhat bitter about your experience with school. I've always liked you and I don't mean any disrespect but you seem to be becoming fixated on this and I just want you to stay away from spiraling away somewhere unfortunate. I'm not trying to psychoanalyze you and I'm not trying to claim to know your life. I'm just telling you how it looks from here.

All the best man.

[Era Might]

[quote name='Hassan' date='30 May 2010 - 12:53 PM' timestamp='1275238403' post='2120707']
It seems like you are somewhat bitter about your experience with school. I've always liked you and I don't mean any disrespect but you seem to be becoming fixated on this and I just want you to stay away from spiraling away somewhere unfortunate. I'm not trying to psychoanalyze you and I'm not trying to claim to know your life. I'm just telling you how it looks from here.

All the best man.
[/quote]
I'm not bitter about anything. Just interested in social criticism of the absurd society we live in...a society where you can watch people suffer thousands of miles away as you sip your coffee and sit on your leather couch.

If you're interested in talking more about these topics, send me a personal message. I can refer you to some authors and books that you might enjoy.

I assure you I am not "spiraling" anywhere (and I have to chuckle a little at the suggestion). If I seem "fixated" on certain things...it's because I have an interest in those things. You seem to enjoy philosophical discussions...I suspect you'd enjoy some of the same authors I do. But I don't want to hijack this thread...like I said, send me a personal message if you're interested in discussing.

Edited May 30, 2010 by Era Might

[Sojourner]

It appears to me (not a Duggars scholar) that their philosophy is that a woman's place is in the home being a wife and mother. That idea seems to be coupled with the thinking that education and a career are incompatible with wife and motherhood. If that is indeed their philosophy, and this is the reason that they are preventing/discouraging their daughters from going to college or working, then I too would disagree with this parenting choice.

But, it is not anywhere close to neglect, and I don't think that encouraging your children to be responsible for one another is a bad choice. Once the girls are of age they are free to make their own choices, and hopefully their parents have equipped them well enough to be able to do that wisely.

[CatherineM]

One of my best friends growing up had an older brother who was severely mentally retarded. If I remember correctly, it was a umbilical cord injury. She was his main caregiver from about age 10 on. She got old early. Her mom used her "free" time to go back to school and finish her nursing degree, and then after that, she was working at the hospital. When my friend graduated and ran to college as fast as she could, her parents had her brother put into a group home. Every time I heard people talk about how courageous her parents were to keep him at home, such self-sacrificing people, I wanted to barf.

As the youngest, I didn't take care of any siblings, I took care of my nieces and nephews. Sometimes the kids of my brothers friends too. It taught me more about parenting than you could read in any book, but yet, I didn't have the complete burden of being a parent. I knew that someone was going to relieve me. I also had a choice. When I got a job, they had to find another baby-sitter. I would be interested to know how the older girls feel about it.

[MissScripture]

[quote name='CatherineM' date='30 May 2010 - 03:24 PM' timestamp='1275247476' post='2120749']
One of my best friends growing up had an older brother who was severely mentally retarded. If I remember correctly, it was a umbilical cord injury. She was his main caregiver from about age 10 on. She got old early. Her mom used her "free" time to go back to school and finish her nursing degree, and then after that, she was working at the hospital. When my friend graduated and ran to college as fast as she could, her parents had her brother put into a group home. Every time I heard people talk about how courageous her parents were to keep him at home, such self-sacrificing people, I wanted to barf.

As the youngest, I didn't take care of any siblings, I took care of my nieces and nephews. Sometimes the kids of my brothers friends too. It taught me more about parenting than you could read in any book, but yet, I didn't have the complete burden of being a parent. I knew that someone was going to relieve me. I also had a choice. When I got a job, they had to find another baby-sitter. I would be interested to know how the older girls feel about it.
[/quote]

It would be interesting to know what the girls think, but sadly, if they ever said what they really think, either way it would be used against the Duggars. If they said they liked how things were set up, people would say they are brainwashed, and if they say they want to do something else, people would say, "See what a horrible life they are forced to live?"

[Sojourner]

[quote name='MissScripture' date='30 May 2010 - 01:41 PM' timestamp='1275248483' post='2120754']
It would be interesting to know what the girls think, but sadly, if they ever said what they really think, either way it would be used against the Duggars. If they said they liked how things were set up, people would say they are brainwashed, and if they say they want to do something else, people would say, "See what a horrible life they are forced to live?"
[/quote]
I agree.

It will be interesting to see what sorts of life choices they make as they get a bit older. My guess is the older girls will be the most likely to follow their mom's footsteps.