Convincing Someone That Euthanasia Is Wrong

[tinytherese]

I was in a class where we had to write about a contraversial issue and argue for a solution. One of my friends chose to do one on euthanasia. I knew that she was for it so I saw this as an opportunity for evangelizing her. We had to have a certain amount of sources and I knew that she had hardly if any, so I gave her a copy of Evangelium Vitae. When our rough drafts were due we had to have our peers look at our work so far and I was sickened when I read her's because she actually used what I had given her to support euthanasia.

The most common object that I've noticed which people have a really hard time getting past is thinking that it will allow a loved one to no longer suffer and that "they're going to die anyway."

I remember doing a search on here and wow did this thread really grind my gears. http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=31108&view=&hl=Terri%20Schiavo&fromsearch=1 Talk about stubborn opposers. I know because stubborness is genetic on my dad's side of the family and I'm no exception.

[Catholic Fox]

[quote name='tinytherese' date='28 May 2010 - 06:00 PM' timestamp='1275087659' post='2119897']
I was in a class where we had to write about a contraversial issue and argue for a solution. One of my friends chose to do one on euthanasia. I knew that she was for it so I saw this as an opportunity for evangelizing her. We had to have a certain amount of sources and I knew that she had hardly if any, so I gave her a copy of Evangelium Vitae. When our rough drafts were due we had to have our peers look at our work so far and I was sickened when I read her's because she actually used what I had given her to support euthanasia.

The most common object that I've noticed which people have a really hard time getting past is thinking that it will allow a loved one to no longer suffer and that [b]"they're going to die anyway." [/b]

I remember doing a search on here and wow did this thread really grind my gears. [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=31108&view=&hl=Terri%20Schiavo&fromsearch=1"]http://www.phatmass....vo&fromsearch=1[/url] Talk about stubborn opposers. I know because stubborness is genetic on my dad's side of the family and I'm no exception.
[/quote]

We're all going to die anyway.

[CatherineM]

There are two kinds of Euthanasia. The kind where you decide that you want to end your life, and the kind where someone makes the decision for you. Had it been a option when I got hurt, I might not be here. When we have the choice, it makes it lots easier to go to the next step to start deciding who should die before their time. If that happens, I know my husband and I will some of the first to go to the glue factory. I'm disabled, so in the view of many, worthless, and he has schizophrenia. We would have been some of the first the Nazi's killed.

[Catholic Fox]

[quote name='CatherineM' date='28 May 2010 - 06:23 PM' timestamp='1275089011' post='2119910']
There are two kinds of Euthanasia. The kind where you decide that you want to end your life, and the kind where someone makes the decision for you. Had it been a option when I got hurt, I might not be here. When we have the choice, it makes it lots easier to go to the next step to start deciding who should die before their time. If that happens, I know my husband and I will some of the first to go to the glue factory. I'm disabled, so in the view of many, worthless, and he has schizophrenia. We would have been some of the first the Nazi's killed.
[/quote]

This is one of the many reasons I'm against euthanasia in any form--including passive.

[tinytherese]

I had this thought that if we discover someone who is thinking about killing themselves, that we get them to a hospital where a psychiatrist can work with them or urge them to call a suicide help hotline or if someone wants to murder them that the police come. Yet so many want to do the reverse when someone who is disabled wants to die or if we want them dead. Hmmm.

[MissScripture]

[quote name='Catholic Fox' date='28 May 2010 - 07:26 PM' timestamp='1275089170' post='2119913']
This is one of the many reasons I'm against euthanasia in any form--including passive.
[/quote]
Isn't passive euthanasia turning off or restricting extraordinary measures (i.e. ventilator)? Because there are definitely times when extraordinary measures should not be taken, or continued, and it is best just to let the person go peacefully. That is not killing them, and if it's labeled as such, it makes it that much harder to convince people that other forms of euthanasia are wrong.

[Catholic Fox]

[quote name='MissScripture' date='28 May 2010 - 07:33 PM' timestamp='1275093220' post='2119927']
Isn't passive euthanasia turning off or restricting extraordinary measures (i.e. ventilator)? Because there are definitely times when extraordinary measures should not be taken, or continued, and it is best just to let the person go peacefully. That is not killing them, and if it's labeled as such, it makes it that much harder to convince people that other forms of euthanasia are wrong.
[/quote]

It also involves cutting off feeding tubes, so the victim will die a painful death from dehydration.

[MissScripture]

[quote name='Catholic Fox' date='28 May 2010 - 08:39 PM' timestamp='1275093556' post='2119928']
It also involves cutting off feeding tubes, so the victim will die a painful death from dehydration.
[/quote]
No, that would be killing them. Ventilators and feeding tubes (should) fall into two different categories.

[CatherineM]

[quote name='tinytherese' date='28 May 2010 - 06:43 PM' timestamp='1275090183' post='2119916']
I had this thought that if we discover someone who is thinking about killing themselves, that we get them to a hospital where a psychiatrist can work with them or urge them to call a suicide help hotline or if someone wants to murder them that the police come. Yet so many want to do the reverse when someone who is disabled wants to die or if we want them dead. Hmmm.
[/quote]
To me it is like the difference between a baby aborted at 5 months and left to die alone next to an open window, and a "wanted" baby being born at 5 months pre-maturely, and several million dollars worth of medical supports being brought to bear. Who decides? In some cases, in Oklahoma, premature babies were cared for or not based on the age/financial resources of the parents.

[Luigi]

[quote name='tinytherese' date='28 May 2010 - 07:43 PM' timestamp='1275090183' post='2119916']
I had this thought that if we discover someone who is thinking about killing themselves, that we get them to a hospital where a psychiatrist can work with them or urge them to call a suicide help hotline or if someone wants to murder them that the police come. Yet so many want to do the reverse when someone who is disabled wants to die or if we want them dead. Hmmm.
[/quote]

Exactly right. There seem to be no more objective truths, just relative ones - If I want this, then I should be allowed to do it (and no one should even try to stop me - really they ought to support me in pursuit of my goal); if I don't want it, then I shouldn't have to have it (and no one should try to convince me otherwise - really whatever service I need should be provided free if I can't afford it myself).

It's the same with abortion, euthanasia, suicide, marriage/divorce, gay marriage/divorce, any issue you care to mention.

[Archaeology cat]

The only case I can think of where it could possibly be permissible to disconnect a feeding tube is when the patient cannot physically tolerate food even in that form. In that case, it would be more merciful to withhold the food, since the patient can't have it, and the intent is not to hasten death, but to keep the patient as comfortable as possible. I think this was the case with my paternal grandfather, as he was dying of advanced pancreatic cancer that had spread throughout his other organs (I could be wrong, though, since I was just 13 at the time). A medical professional can tell me whether that's a possibility in this case or not. I am fairly certain that no measures were taken to hasten his death (I know he wouldn't have approved any measures to hasten death, nor would my grandmother, so if any such measures were taken, it was likely without their knowledge), and I well remember his last conscious day, when my cousin sang hymns and other songs to him and my grandfather squeezed my grandmother's hand. Yes, he was going to die anyway, but none of us sought to hasten his death. Had euthanasia been considered, he likely would have been euthanised 20 years before he actually died, after his first heart attack, where he was bedridden for a year afterwards.

I compare that with my other grandfather, who had a stroke. It is likely that he would have lived a few more years, though he would have been disabled (not sure to what extent). Instead of facing that, he chose to refuse to eat or have a feeding tube. My step-grandmother tried to convince him otherwise, but he wouldn't budge; when he could no longer make a decision, his medical power-of-attorney also wouldn't budge on it. I know they didn't truly grasp how it was not a dignified death with him dying that way. I appreciate prayers for the repose of my grandparents' souls.

[mommas_boy]

One thing that scares me:

When euthanasia becomes an "option for care" as far as insurance companies are concerned. At that point ... we might get into a situation where palliative care is no longer covered by the insurance company, but euthanasia is. Sure, people still have a "choice" in that they can pay out of pocket for palliative care, but their hand is sure being forced ...

[Bennn]

Euthanasia is false charity. We're no dogs that you can put down when they get sick. We're human beings with eternal souls and no man can decide that God has no further plans with us.

+Pax Domini,
Ben

[MIKolbe]

so i take it you are against the death penalty too?

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='mommas_boy' date='29 May 2010 - 03:07 AM' timestamp='1275113229' post='2120048']
One thing that scares me:

When euthanasia becomes an "option for care" as far as insurance companies are concerned. At that point ... we might get into a situation where palliative care is no longer covered by the insurance company, but euthanasia is. Sure, people still have a "choice" in that they can pay out of pocket for palliative care, but their hand is sure being forced ...
[/quote]

Most people under palliative care are probably trying to get onto hospice care, which -- good or bad -- is fully paid for by the U.S. taxpayer. But it takes three, four, five months to actually start receiving the benefits, so you could literally die waiting. (I work in Medicare Operations for an insurance company, so this stuff comes up.)


In response to euthanasia, I feel the primary point to address is the underlying spirit of despair that causes a person to consider death over life. Since we are in daily contact with people who are likely at the end of their lives, some of my friends at work have literally stated that if they ended up in a similar condition, they would "just end it." But why do they feel this way? It isn't because they are filled with hope, or that they even consider euthanasia to be a hopeful option. I believe the problem is rooted in the meaning our lives hold in the prime of our lives: if you believe human life has eternal purpose, it gives joy and hope to your youthful years and makes euthanasia, abortion, and all these other evils simply unthinkable. But if youth is your hope, when it's tapped out, then as far as you're concerned you're dead already.

Edited May 29, 2010 by LouisvilleFan