Cohabiting Couples To Be Refused The Eucharist?

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Galloglasses' Alt' date='27 May 2010 - 10:30 PM' timestamp='1275010232' post='2119470']
Because my problem is related to this issue. I live in a housing estate in the city of Belfast for my university studies and often I have to rent a room from one of my Landlord's house and have no control over who rents the other rooms. For my first year I had to share my house with two girls, (in succession not at the same time) that I didnt know. does this count as co-habitation?
[/quote]
Co-habiting is what used to be called " liiving in sin" and no you are not.

[IgnatiusOfAntioch]

[quote name='Galloglasses' Alt' date='27 May 2010 - 07:30 PM' timestamp='1275010232' post='2119470']
I have to rent a room from one of my Landlord's house and have no control over who rents the other rooms. . does this count as co-habitation?
[/quote]

No, clearly they are not speaking of people who rent rooms. They are speaking of couples shacking up together.

[tinytherese]

If the couple is fornicating (and possibly contracepting as well) then they definitely shouldn't be receiving Our Lord. In my experience, people in general know that the Church is against premarital-sex, but often they don't know [i]why.[/i]

I remember reading in Christian Courtship in an Oversexed World: A Guide for Catholics, how the author pointed out that even if a man and woman were living together, but not sleeping together that the people around them probably would assume that they were having sex (because really how many cohabitating couples don't or in the beginning claim that they won't yet give into temptation eventually.?) If people around them knew that they were Catholic and cohabitating, that could cause scandal for them, especially if they themselves are Catholic. "Oh well they're Catholic and do it. It might be okay to do it then." It would especially be scandalous to fellow parishioners and in particular to young people, since they would be setting a bad example, especially if they are seen receiving communion.

[MIKolbe]

I appreciated the kindness with which this truth was reiterated by the Bishop.

[MithLuin]

[b]TT[/b], my parents do marriage prep (pre-Cana) with couples preparing for marriage in the Catholic church. Very often, they have to deal with couples who are cohabiting - this comes up right away when they each have the same address for their contact info. Recently, they had a couple who had that situation, and as my dad started to explain things to them, they told him no, no, we're waiting til marriage.

My dad was surprised by this, so he told someone at work the scenario, and she said "That's what my husband and I did."

So, it does happen. Not often, mind you, but it does happen. Co-habitation happens often for financial reasons, so it's possible for couples to decide to do 'the right thing' as far as sleeping arrangements go, even if they are certainly leading others to make scandalous conclusions. While it is good to avoid scandal, certainly it is better to avoid mortal sin. So, at least they got part of it right.

[tinytherese]

[quote name='MithLuin' date='28 May 2010 - 03:15 PM' timestamp='1275077750' post='2119818']
[b]TT[/b], my parents do marriage prep (pre-Cana) with couples preparing for marriage in the Catholic church. Very often, they have to deal with couples who are cohabiting - this comes up right away when they each have the same address for their contact info. Recently, they had a couple who had that situation, and as my dad started to explain things to them, they told him no, no, we're waiting til marriage.

My dad was surprised by this, so he told someone at work the scenario, and she said "That's what my husband and I did."

So, it does happen. Not often, mind you, but it does happen. Co-habitation happens often for financial reasons, so it's possible for couples to decide to do 'the right thing' as far as sleeping arrangements go, even if they are certainly leading others to make scandalous conclusions. While it is good to avoid scandal, certainly it is better to avoid mortal sin. So, at least they got part of it right.
[/quote]

Oh I can see that. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to imply that that was impossible, just that it doesn't seem to happen in the majority of cases.

[tinytherese]

Living in Sin

Strategies to Reach Cohabiting Couples

By Joanna Bogle




This Rock
Volume 15, Number 2
February 2004

A big problem affecting the average parish—and one that does not get discussed openly or often enough—is that of cohabiting couples who come to the Church to make wedding arrangements.

We must be realistic. Most young couples presenting themselves at the door of the parish house, with music lists and The Dress all planned, are living together. For their good, for the good of the Church, for the avoidance of dishonesty, and for the integrity of the sacrament of marriage, it is vital that we develop a coherent and workable strategy to deal with this issue.

For several years I have been involved in marriage preparation covering a number of London parishes. Back in the early 1990s, a young priest found that the marriage preparation scheme in place was unhelpful to the couples he was meeting. He could not in conscience send them along to sessions where they would hear speakers who did not support Church teachings and/or be invited to take part in embarrassing and trite activities (such as delving into a box and picking up an item—a child’s toy, or a tea bag—and saying what it meant to them).

When he began a series of marriage preparation days with the support and encouragement of other priests, I agreed as a Catholic married woman to come and talk about the Church’s message on this subject. As things grew over the years and spread to other parts of London, the format of the days we planned varied. We learned by our mistakes: for example, that a "panel discussion" at the end of the day with "questions on any topic you like" can be a disaster, since it can be dominated by one individual or couple arguing the Church’s teaching on homosexuality, abortion, or women priests. This means that the day can end on a bad note.

One thing has remained constant: the need to grapple with the fact that the vast majority of the young people present are living in a way incompatible with the full reception of sacramental grace in matrimony. They are cohabiting and sexually active, and they intend to remain this way throughout the time of their engagement. And it is most likely that for one or both parties this is not the first (or even the second or third or fourth) sexual partner.

How to deal with this? The solution is to get couples together in a group. It is difficult for a priest, sitting at his desk with a cheerful young couple opposite him, to tackle this on a conversational basis. Put bluntly, it’s just plain embarrassing. Imagine yourself a priest, dressed in black clerics, in a house adjoining a church in an ordinary suburb at a desk stacked with papers about the church heating bills and the annual parish barbecue. The people facing you look young and successful—they probably already own a good-sized house and a couple of cars and have good, conventional jobs. They are unlikely to be in awe of you. Their attitude is probably, "Well, we’ve arranged the reception at the hotel and got plans for a great holiday trip and the design for the dress looks a dream. . . . Now we’ve got to sort out the formalities with this guy. Of course we’re not regular churchgoers—we have our own really important ideas about spirituality and all that. . . ."

In this situation, the suggestion that we have a talk about the rightness (or otherwise) of any sexual behavior between the couple seems completely bizarre. "What right does this man have to talk to us like that?" And priests are busy, tired, embarrassed, and conscious of not being in the mainstream opinion on this one. It’s tempting to leave it aside and concentrate on the hymns—goodness knows that will be hard enough, with awkwardness about the suitability of some of the music they want.

So how to do it? A marriage preparation day for which couples register as they come to make the arrangements for the wedding immediately gets across a message of importance. Ideally, there should be several such events arranged by the parish (or group of parishes) throughout the year. That way, couples choose the date easiest for them. They should be given printed details—to include a modest registration fee—and it should be made plain that attendance is a crucial part of marrying in this parish.

There is an important addition, alas, not always possible to achieve. In addition to the marriage preparation day, the couple should visit a local natural family planning center and have a full private session there, which will also result in their being given a certificate of attendance. Sadly, NFP is not taught widely and systematically. In my experience, in dioceses where NFP is taught, major advances are being made in the whole quality of marriage preparation. The consistent message from Rome over recent years has been that every diocese should have a team of sound, fully trained NFP teachers—a message that should be heeded. The marriage preparation day is made much easier if NFP can be tackled separately in this way. But if this cannot be done, vital messages can still be conveyed.

Start with prayer, friendly greetings, and a businesslike air. Of course, a pleasant room helps—a small group in a large bleak hall sets a dreary tone. We found that it worked to have some music playing (classics, on a tape recorder, not very loud) as people arrived. It makes a difference to have a priest to start the day, and lead everyone in prayer, even if he cannot stay the whole time.

My talk? Well, after some friendly chat (the atmosphere is always pleasant—a roomful of couples who are in love means a generally happy mood!), it goes roughly like this:

"We are all here because a marriage is being planned. Even if we have not been going to church faithfully, or feel our link with the Catholic Church is a bit vague rather than a deep commitment, we have a good instinct—we are coming home to get married. This is our Father’s house, and it is here that we will make our vows and receive this sacrament that binds us together for the rest of eternity. It’s good to be here, and this is a time of coming closer to God. Marriage is ‘the big one,’ a moment to take time to pause, to think things through, to be with God and to open our hearts to him. Savor this time.

"As we approach marriage, we are walking to the gate that leads to the pathway up the hill. We cannot see the whole way ahead, but we know that we will walk this path together, with all its twists and turns and difficulties. In marriage, we open the gate and walk through together, closing it gently behind us. We cannot go back now—we must go forward together, up the hill into our shared life ahead.

"It is right to feel some awe as we approach this great reality of binding our lives together permanently. God created marriage—we’re doing something that takes us right back to the very beginning of things. When Christ went to the wedding in Cana, he turned water into wine. Marriage is at the core of what the Church teaches. You will hear the Church actually described as a bride—the Bride of Christ. The whole of the Christian message is bound up with matrimonial imagery: Bridegroom and bride, Christ and his Church. Even eternity itself is described as a marriage feast—the marriage feast of the Lamb in heaven.

"Christ takes the water of our courtship and turns it into the wine of married life. God takes us, and through our unity he will bring new life into the world—and into eternity.

"Marriage is that important. It’s that awesome. When the Church talks about marriage, she is talking about something that is at the very core of all that she has to convey. It is absolutely not just a set of rules. It is a matter of being part of God’s plan for the whole human race in which he himself participates.

"As we ponder all this, we might feel, ‘Help . . . I’m not really up to all of this!’ We might feel that our own relationship with God isn’t right. This is especially the case if we are already sexually active with the person to whom we are engaged to be married. We may also have been sexually active with others before. We may have been not quite honest—with ourselves, with our future spouse, with God—about some of this.

"We must be realistic and truthful. Sexual activity outside the marriage bond is contrary to God’s law and harmful to us and to our future marriage. It is an incontrovertible statistic that those who are sexually active with one another before they marry are much more likely to get divorced. The latest official national figures for cohabitation and divorce spell this out clearly, as did the previous set of figures—you may have seen some of the resulting media debate.

"Why is this so? Partly, perhaps, because of the sense of dishonesty. The language of the body isn’t saying the same thing as the language of words. The language of sexual union is the language of forever, of vulnerability sealed with assurance. But living together outside of marriage is made up of words like ‘trying out our relationship to see if it works.’ One partner may think that the trial is just a formality—marriage will necessarily follow. The other thinks that it is like buying a car—you discard the model you don’t like.

"What do we do as we discover what all this means? God is always there, and his forgiveness and mercy are the only healing that will really makes things right. Remember the story of the prodigal son? The father had been out every day, waiting and waiting, hoping, looking down the dusty road. Might his boy come back today? Might he be hungry, ill, footsore? And when he saw the boy ‘from a far distance,’ we are told—and no telephone in those days, so he must have been gazing out daily, hoping and waiting—he rushed to meet him, and almost before the boy could stutter his words of regret and hurt, the father wrapped his arms around him and called for things to make him comfortable and arranged the celebration feast.

"Coming home to the Church after too long a gap is like that. For a Catholic, going to confession before receiving the sacrament of marriage is really important. It might take courage. But if we are seriously going to bind ourselves for life to another person, this is precisely the sort of courage we will need. There is healing and balm for wounded souls in confession. There will be things we need to say to God and to a confessor that need not, and should not, be shared with anyone else, ever.

"If we fight shy of all this, we are dismissing something so awesome and so crucial to our relationship that we will be attempting to enter marriage with a tragic and unresolved problem. God is good. He will always come to meet and help us. But we need to accept his help when it is offered."

And then the talk goes on to cover other things. I should emphasize that the whole subject must be tackled in the context of developing a prayer life of your own. It is important to convey the necessity of praying together.

"Everyone will have his own way of doing this: We might find a church or shrine that becomes ‘our’ place, a saint we like, a little chapel we discovered on a walk, or of course the church where we plan to marry. We should talk together about our childhood experiences of faith and our ideas of God. We do not need to invent elaborate prayers together or show off about how pious or articulate we are. We could say the Lord’s Prayer quietly together. We could ask God in simple words about the things that we need or are troubling us—including perhaps some of the practical matters associated with the wedding arrangements. We could be silent together and light a candle in church and just sit or kneel for a while.

"It’s important to understand that prayer is going to be crucial all along. Within a couple of years, we might be praying at the bedside of a sick child, or a dying parent, or worrying about a lost job or a complicated financial crisis. We will need God’s help every step of the way. Marriage is going to be a great adventure."

There is more, of course. The presentation needs a lot more personal prayer and thoughtfulness than I had imagined when, perhaps a trifle smugly, I first agreed to do these marriage sessions. I need myself to be going to confession regularly, to be praying sincerely, to be applying basic rules about loving and forgiving in my own life, my own marriage.

Any attempt to show off—silly anecdotes about one’s own cleverness, kindness, or wonderful relationship with one’s spouse—are probably doomed to failure (although a few gently amusing comments about married life and family realities are useful). Genuine humility is needed. There must be a sense in which we are trying to convey what God wants: "More of God, less of me!" as I heard one charismatic speaker say at a rally—a bit sloganized, but essentially wise.

There are pitfalls. What about the sweetly pretty, proudly pregnant young lady in the front row with her fiancé? (No easy answers here, except to emphasize that a baby is always hugely welcome. No ifs, no buts—God loves this child dearly.) What to do about those who violently disagree with you? What about those who say, "My priest/Catholic teacher/mom doesn’t mind us living together"?

But there are touching moments, such as when the nice young man said, "It sounds beautiful. Can Protestants go to confession?" Or the married couple at midnight Mass years later who said, "We’ve never forgotten that talk."

Practicalities matter. We give every couple a pack with a prayer book, a nice commemorative card, information on where and how to go to confession, and a gift book about marriage. Above all, we must pray for those we teach. The day should begin and end with the speaker giving it all to God. It’s his work.


source http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2004/0402fea2.asp

Edited May 28, 2010 by tinytherese

[tinytherese]

I found another article which seems especially helpful for priests. It also gets more concrete. (Keep in mind that you have to scroll down to this part.)

I have found five principles helpful and useful. The individual ministers should rely on their own talents, skills and personality in applying these principles in their work with the couples.

1 The process by which the couple decided to live together before marriage may have been completely innocent. Nonetheless, the fact that they are living together before marriage is objectively wrong, creates an unworkable atmosphere for marriage preparation and poses a real danger to their future marriage. The solution is for the couple to separate during the marriage preparation process.

2 I do not set a date with the couple until I know if they are already living together or if there will be any other major conflicts to resolve in the marriage preparation process. In this way, outside pressure and timetables from hall or church reservations do not get in the way of the marriage preparation.

3 I do not preach at the couple or criticize them telling them that the Church or I do not approve of their living together.

4 I take the marriage preparation and my role in it seriously. When a young man wants to be a priest, the Church provides a whole group of people to help him discern if he is called and ready for priesthood. The same thing happens when a young man or woman desires religious life. There should also be someone willing to help a young couple discern if they are ready for marriage.

5 If it is discovered that they are not ready yet, I do not judge them. I make myself available to them to help them to get ready. If the relationship becomes conflicted, I always leave the door open, ready to work with them in their growth towards marriage. I will never say to them that I will not witness their marriage. But I will tell them if I think that they are not yet ready for marriage.

The scenario of the first meeting is that the couple have called and said that they want to get married and so we have set up a first meeting. When they arrive, they are sometimes a bit nervous, all the more so if they are living together, another good reason to deal with this issue honestly and up front.

Priest: Hello Jack and Jane, come in and have a seat.

(We shake hands, I offer hospitality and get them comfortable. At this point I do not know whether they are living together or not. I feel comfortable in meeting them because even if they are living together, I do not believe that it is my problem, and so I do not have to take responsibility for it if it causes a delay in their marriage plans.)

Couple: Hello, how are you?

Priest: So, tell me something about yourselves, where are you from, who are your parents, how many siblings, what is your work, how did you meet etc. . . .?

(We engage in a conversation that helps to break the ice and helps us get to know one another. I share with them where I am from and a little about my family etc. . . .)

Priest: So, what can I do for you?

(This question may surprise them because they have already told me over the phone that they want to get married and that is why they are here. They may be assuming that I and or the Church have already organized a whole series of hoops for them to jump through. Consciously or unconsciously they may think that marriage preparation will be like other religious programs that they have been through where you go from step one to step two with some authority telling you what to do and what to believe. With this question, I am trying to take my self out of the loop and get them to take responsibility for their marriage preparation. I want all the couples I work with, not just the cohabiting couples, to understand that marriage and marriage preparation are paths to holiness and personal growth.)

Couple: We want to get married.

Priest: That's great. Why did you come to me?

(They think that I am putting them on and just grin at each other and at me, so I continue.)

I mean you could just as easily go to a Justice of the Peace. It would be quicker and cheaper, but you came to me, a Catholic priest, why?

(I am asking this question pleasantly, but sincerely. I may even explain to them that it is not a trick question and I am not looking for a certain answer. I just want to hear them talk about the motivation behind their wanting a "religious" wedding. It allows us to explore what it means to them to want a "religious" wedding. It is easy for us to take the practice of our faith and the sacraments for granted without having a conscious understanding of why we do what we do, why we believe what we believe. I want them to think about what they believe and why they want a "religious" wedding so they can articulate their faith to each other, be consciously aware of it and take responsibility for it.)

Couple: We don't want a civil marriage because we are both Christians. We believe marriage is a sacrament. All our families are Christians. We believe in the Church.

(The answers here are usually some variation of these with the basic theme being that we are Christians, we are members of the parish, Jesus is our Lord and we want to honor that in our marriage. My goal here is to use questions to help them clarify and express in their own words and thoughts their Christian faith and values. Once this faith has been established, I can help them see the connections and or disconnections between their Christian faith and their life choices.)

Priest: So, it sounds like you are telling me that you do not want a secular wedding because you believe Jesus is your Lord and you want to get married in your Church to honor your Christian faith. Well good, with your faith meaning so much to you I can see why you would want to go to all the trouble of a formal preparation process and a sacramental wedding.

(At this point we can move into the prenuptial questionnaire which is the point wherein I usually discover that they are living together.)

Priest: I see by your addresses that you are already living together? As Christians, doesn't that go against your faith?

(The fruit of the earlier conversation begins to ripen here. Now as we begin to deal with this issue it is their own expressed faith that questions them about this apparent contradiction in their relationship. This is very different than telling them that neither the Church nor I approve of their living together. Since they claim that they are here because of their Christian faith, they must take responsibility for the objective content of that faith and the consequences that it has for how they live their life.

They must also take responsibility for how their living together contrary to their Christian faith and values demonstrates an immaturity in how they think and apply faith and values to their life. If they are not yet able to make concrete life decisions based on the values and beliefs of their faith, then why do they think they will be able to make such decisions based on the values and beliefs of their marriage?

If they cannot apply the values of faith or marriage to daily decisions, they may one day find themselves looking at divorce. They will not have intended for these things to happen. No couple ever does and yet the divorce rate is at or above 50 percent. This is the danger of going forward with the marriage of a couple who, by their decision to live together, have amply demonstrated that they do not yet have the "critical faculty" of being able to relate Christian faith or marriage as an abstract reality to the day to day concrete decisions and actions of their life.

Moreover, given the high rate of divorce and the consequent scandal caused by the high number of annulments, it seems evident that allowing the cohabiting couple to get married in a simpler ceremony is still a dangerous practice. We may have avoided the scandal on the day of the marriage. But if by allowing a cohabiting couple to get married in a simplified ceremony we set up a future divorce and petition for nullity, we will not have avoided scandal and greater pain at the end of the marriage.)

Couple: We honestly did not think of it in this way, but yes, you do have a point.

(The conversation may go in many directions at this point from denial and making excuses to relief at getting it out in the open because they have known it was wrong, wanted to deal with it, but have not known how to proceed. Below we will examine several common responses. The goal is to get them to separate for a significant amount of time before the marriage. This separation is not punitive, but formational. It can accomplish several things. It can restore the virtue and gift of chastity. It can help them to see that there is a connection between faith and life and thus grow deeper in their relationship with God. And, it can give them the freedom and independence they need in order to evaluate the motives for getting married in general, to this person in particular and at this time in their lives.)

Priest: So, how can I help you grow in integrating your faith with the choices in your life?

Note that the Church and I continue to be outside the problem, and it is a real problem. Because the Church did not cause their problem, it can properly offer them a way of salvation, a solution to their problem.

The first kind of response may be an outright denial that there is any problem. In this situation the minister must be prepared to explain objectively why cohabiting is a problem. Studies such as the one mentioned above, scriptural passages dealing with sexual immorality and the dignity and beauty of marriage and the Church's teachings on the dignity and beauty of human sexuality and marriage are all helpful here. The guiding principle in the conversation is to leave the door open to further work and discussion. I may arrange another appointment with them so they can go home and think about and pray about our discussion. I will never tell them they cannot ever get married, but that I do not think they are ready to get married yet.

A second response may be a recognition that their decision to live together was the wrong decision followed by an attempt at a compromise without growth. This usually takes the form of the argument that now they are dependent on one another and cannot afford to separate. I do not accept this at face value because usually it is not true and if it is, it presents another problem. Usually it means that they are trying to save money for some goal, such as the wedding, a car, a home or something else. In their decision to live together before marriage and contrary to their faith, they have taken a moral shortcut in order to arrive at their goal. This is not mature decision making and may indicate the way they will handle other problems in the marriage.

In my conversation with them I will first ask them individually if they mean to say that they cannot make a living on their own. This helps them to see that in fact they are not really dependent on one another, but rather they are living together because they want something. Then I will point out that other couples want the things they want, but do not take shortcuts to get them and that they should not either. If they separate now and pursue their goal in a mature fashion, it will take longer to reach it, but it will allow them to grow in their faith and relationship.

If in fact they cannot make a living on their own, then we must deal with how this dependency affects their ability to give free consent to the wedding. In this situation I will want to work with them to verify their freedom to marry, their intention to observe chastity before marriage and how to deal with the potential scandal at the wedding. Here is where the simplified wedding ceremony makes sense so as to avoid giving scandal lo the friends and family who attend.

A third kind of response is one of relief at getting it out in the open. On a couple of occasions I have dealt with, one person has been feeling very guilty about their living together but has been afraid to bring it up. Now we can talk openly about how they got into this situation and how we can make their separation a path to holiness and growth. Of course this is the easiest situation to deal with, but they may never have had this opportunity if the minister did not have the courage and pastoral concern to challenge them about their living together before marriage.

I have found this to be a useful approach that helps cohabiting couples grow in their faith, and priests and others in marriage preparation feel more confident in working with them.


Reverend David Konderla was ordained in 1995 for the Diocese of Austin. Texas. He has served in two parishes and is currently the Associate Director of Campus Ministry' for the fightin' Texas Aggies at St. Mary's Catholic Center at Texas A&M University. This is his first article in HPR.

source http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?id=1408&CFID=37614120&CFTOKEN=92401874

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

tinytherese--Thanks for posting the two articles. I found them very interesting, and was mentally comparing them to the preparation my ex and I were given for our marriage in the Catholic church. I think both these priests gave the process much more thought than the priest we met with. (However, we did not live together before we got married, so that didn't come up as an issue, and I can't make a direct comparison.)

One quick question: The second article refers to a "simplified" form of marriage ceremony. Does he mean a Catholic ceremony without a Mass? Or a civil ceremony? Or something else? Thanks!

[CatherineM]

I think we co-habitated technically 5 days before we got married. I flew into Canada on Tuesday, had my immigration physicals on Wednesday, bachelorette party and wedding prep on Thursday, had pre-Cana weekend on Friday, Saturday and Sunday, and got married on Monday. We wouldn't have had time to fool around.

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='CatherineM' date='28 May 2010 - 08:03 PM' timestamp='1275095028' post='2119943']
I think we co-habitated technically 5 days before we got married. I flew into Canada on Tuesday, had my immigration physicals on Wednesday, bachelorette party and wedding prep on Thursday, had pre-Cana weekend on Friday, Saturday and Sunday, and got married on Monday. We wouldn't have had time to fool around.
[/quote]

When I got married in the Los Angeles Archdiocese way back when, that wouldn't have been possible. They wouldn't marry couples in the Church without a 6-month wait.

[CatherineM]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='28 May 2010 - 08:15 PM' timestamp='1275095743' post='2119947']
When I got married in the Los Angeles Archdiocese way back when, that wouldn't have been possible. They wouldn't marry couples in the Church without a 6-month wait.
[/quote]
We had to get married civilly at first because of immigration. We had fulfilled all the requirements of the archdiocese, but my MIL and SIL convinced our pastor that my husband was off his medication, and beating me. Had we waited until after he figured out he'd been lied to, I would have been deported with a 5 year exclusion order for entering the country under false pretenses. My MIL had gotten her MP to call Immigration and file accusations that I was a terrorist. We weren't willing to take a chance. We went without communion for the 6 months it took to straighten everything out.

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='CatherineM' date='28 May 2010 - 08:30 PM' timestamp='1275096601' post='2119952']
We had to get married civilly at first because of immigration. We had fulfilled all the requirements of the archdiocese, but my MIL and SIL convinced our pastor that my husband was off his medication, and beating me. Had we waited until after he figured out he'd been lied to, I would have been deported with a 5 year exclusion order for entering the country under false pretenses. My MIL had gotten her MP to call Immigration and file accusations that I was a terrorist. We weren't willing to take a chance. We went without communion for the 6 months it took to straighten everything out.
[/quote]

I'm so sorry you had to go through that. And, I thought my former in-laws were bad. It was bad enough to lie to the priest, but to file accusations that you were a terrorist? That's not just an "annoyance." I hope it didn't turn into a serious legal problem (but apparently it did, since it took 6 months to fix).

Can I ask one of my usual questions? I understand why you took the "high road" and went without communion for 6 months (which must have felt awful). But, wouldn't the Church have considered your circumstances to be not your fault, and that the reasons preventing your getting married in the Church were false accusations? Or was the problem that you were attending the church where the priest was convinced your husband was beating you, so you didn't take communion to avoid causing a confrontation? BTW--I don't even know you, but I can't imagine you allowing anyone to beat you.

If this is too personal a question, that's fine. No need to answer. Thanks.

[CatherineM]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='28 May 2010 - 08:48 PM' timestamp='1275097736' post='2119958']
I'm so sorry you had to go through that. And, I thought my former in-laws were bad. It was bad enough to lie to the priest, but to file accusations that you were a terrorist? That's not just an "annoyance." I hope it didn't turn into a serious legal problem (but apparently it did, since it took 6 months to fix).

Can I ask one of my usual questions? I understand why you took the "high road" and went without communion for 6 months (which must have felt awful). But, wouldn't the Church have considered your circumstances to be not your fault, and that the reasons preventing your getting married in the Church were false accusations? Or was the problem that you were attending the church where the priest was convinced your husband was beating you, so you didn't take communion to avoid causing a confrontation? BTW--I don't even know you, but I can't imagine you allowing anyone to beat you.

If this is too personal a question, that's fine. No need to answer. Thanks.
[/quote]
When I get together with my friends, and we play, "What our Mothers in Laws did to us this week," I always win. She also has schizophrenia, and isn't really properly medicated. I suspect that she also has Borderline in the amount of drama she likes to institute. Our priest was young and relatively inexperienced, and had never encountered a situation where a family was opposed to a marriage before. He was doing his job though. Priests are required to do due diligence before performing a marriage. He talked to every person who had ever met us, but what really helped was talking to a retired priest who had known Austin and his family when he was a kid. There was even concern at some point that his illness would preclude him from being competent to marry. We had a lot to iron out that we hadn't planned on.

We knew there would be consequences to our decision. We could have chosen to chance it, and if we had to be apart 5 years, than so be it. I'm human, and I didn't want to endure that. Communion isn't a right, it is a blessed privilege. I would never have considered asking our priest to make an exception. Doing without communion made us desire it, and helped us commit to never doing anything in our marriage that would separate us again from full communion. I also think that we set an example of how to act in similar circumstances. We didn't go up to receive a blessing. We stayed in the pew as a visible reminder of our penance. I was asked to sing in the choir and teach in RCIA, and declined both. I was not comfortable with any visible ministry until our marriage was blessed by the church. All of it just made our marriage stronger much to my MIL's chagrin.

As to him beating me. I always joke that if he ever went off his meds and got out of hand with me, as soon as he regained consciousness, I'd have him hospitalized. I was raised with many older brothers and a ex-spy dad. He was raised with younger sisters, never played a single sport, and had a dad who was a medieval language professor. I'd wipe the floor with him, but I'd do it lovingly.

[MissScripture]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='28 May 2010 - 09:48 PM' timestamp='1275097736' post='2119958']
I'm so sorry you had to go through that. And, I thought my former in-laws were bad. It was bad enough to lie to the priest, but to file accusations that you were a terrorist? That's not just an "annoyance." I hope it didn't turn into a serious legal problem (but apparently it did, since it took 6 months to fix).

[/quote]
Seriously, whenever I have a gripe with my MIL (and in the 3 months I've been married, it's surprising how many things have come up) I just think of CatherineM and thank God that things are not worse!