Pentecostalism In The Catholic Church

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='organwerke' date='29 May 2010 - 07:05 AM' timestamp='1275138305' post='2120117']
Well, first of all I am sorry but I was in the past a student of history...it was really beautiful to study those subjects but finally I couldn't continue those studies because I was already too busy with my musical studies, and now I am a music teacher, so while I am quite sure of the music history I am not so expert -not as you- in Church history.
Anway yes I knew there were also other schisms (I don't remember exactly their names) but I quoted the one that I found the most relevant (in my opinion of course).[/quote]
There were multiple schisms during the first millennium, e.g., the Nestorian, the Monophysite (both still existing today), and multiple schisms between the Chalcedonian East and West. Some of these many schism were the fault of the Chalcedonian East, and sometimes they were the fault of the Chalcedonian West; and they culminated in the so-called Great Schism of A.D. 1054, which erroneously is believed to be the final schism between East and West, but that final break did not occur until A.D. 1204.

[quote name='organwerke' date='29 May 2010 - 07:05 AM' timestamp='1275138305' post='2120117']Anyway I didn't want to say that there are two divided churches and you are correct saying that the Church as the Logos, is distinct but inseparable; I meant that when single persons or a group of persons , embrace heresy, they are no more in perfect union with the Church.[/quote]
I simply posted in response to your last couple of comments because some of them seemed to imply a Lutheran understanding of the Church as divided into earthly and spiritual parts, but - again as I am sure you already know - Luther's views on that subject were condemned as heretical.

[quote name='organwerke' date='29 May 2010 - 07:05 AM' timestamp='1275138305' post='2120117']I guess that we can't define, for example, the Protestant Church (or churches), as the True, Orthodox Church, right?[/quote]
According to modern Roman Catholic teaching, i.e., since the close of the Second Vatican Council, the various Protestant groups have been called "ecclesial communities" in order to highlight the fact that they are not true Churches; while - on the other hand - the Eastern Orthodox Churches are called true and proper Churches because they have maintained apostolic succession and the full reality of the Eucharistic mystery. This is also true of the Oriental Orthodox and Nestorian Churches.

Edited May 29, 2010 by Apotheoun

[organwerke]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='29 May 2010 - 03:13 PM' timestamp='1275138837' post='2120119']
I simply posted in response to your last couple of comments because some of them seemed to imply a Lutheran understanding of the Church as divided into earthly and spiritual parts, but - again as I am sure you already know - Luther's views on that subject were condemned as heretical.
[/quote]

Sorry if they seemed to imply this, this was not my intention -nor my understanding of the matter- anyway.

Edited May 29, 2010 by organwerke

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='organwerke' date='29 May 2010 - 07:20 AM' timestamp='1275139242' post='2120120']
Sorry if they seemed to imply this, this was not my intention anyway.
[/quote]
No need to worry, I now know that you did not intend to sound Protestant.

Nevertheless, as a former Protestant, I feel compelled to warn Catholics about the dangers of flirting the Protestant doctrines, spiritual practices, and styles of worship.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='organwerke' date='28 May 2010 - 01:55 PM' timestamp='1275051305' post='2119665']
I am simply praying and waiting for what the Church says.
[/quote]
Sounds good.

[organwerke]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='29 May 2010 - 03:23 PM' timestamp='1275139427' post='2120122']
No need to worry, I now know that you did not intend to sound Protestant.

Nevertheless, as a former Protestant, I feel compelled to warn Catholics about the dangers of flirting the Protestant doctrines, spiritual practices, and styles of worship.
[/quote]


Thank you for your kind words.

I understand your concern, but again I was not flirting the protestant doctrines.
My wrong impression was due only to my poor lexicon and ability in writing about theoloigical issues, and not on my understanding of the issues themselves.

I would add another thing: my comments on the divided church began with your post that I quoted:
[quote]One other thing is clear, the movement has divided the Catholic Church, and that cannot be a good thing.[/quote]

It seemed to me that you implied that there can't be divided true churhes.
But now I know you didn't mean that.

Edited May 29, 2010 by organwerke

[CatherineM]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='29 May 2010 - 04:25 AM' timestamp='1275125141' post='2120081']
Just a friendly reminder, but canonization of saints and papal approval of an order does not mean that everything associated with the person canonized or the group approved is by definition orthodox.
[/quote]
The Legionaires of Christ is a case in point.

[laetitia crucis]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='26 May 2010 - 04:42 PM' timestamp='1274906534' post='2118423']
My experiences have been similar to yours. Moreover, as a former Protestant I have found the Catholic pentecostal movement to be theologically impoverished.
[/quote]


[quote name='Marie-Therese' date='26 May 2010 - 05:35 PM' timestamp='1274909725' post='2118473']
I am a former Southern Baptist/Pentacostal. I think that if a person feels led to express these charismatic type experiences in their personal prayer and praise, then that is fine. To each his own. In the context of the Mass, it has no place.

The Mass is NOT an individual worship experience, no matter what people think about it. It is the eternal sacrifice of Calvary presented to the Father by His Bride, the Holy Church. That is the difference between our Catholic faith and the typical Protestant mentality. Protestantism finds many people church-hopping because they "aren't getting fed" or "don't get anything out of worship." These are just code words for people who mean they aren't getting the emotional satisfaction out of their particular group. The Mass is not about emotion, although emotional connection to the Mass is very valid and a beautiful thing. Worship is NOT about emotion. It's about WORSHIP. The most boring homily in the most homely church is still, and will always be, about pleasing God and not the congregants.

When I am at home, listening to some great worship music, I like to dance and raise my hands, because I feel joyous. I will not do that in Mass.
[/quote]

Ditto both -- totally hit the nail on the head for me.

[organwerke]

[quote name='CatherineM' date='29 May 2010 - 04:20 PM' timestamp='1275142827' post='2120173']
The Legionaires of Christ is a case in point.
[/quote]

The founder of Legionaires of Christ has not actually been canonized.
And even if it wasn't saint, this doesn't necessairly mean his doctrines weren't orthodox.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='CatherineM' date='29 May 2010 - 08:20 AM' timestamp='1275142827' post='2120173']
The Legionaires of Christ is a case in point.
[/quote]
Yes, that is a good example of what I was referring to when I mentioned groups that have received papal approval. We now know that the Legionaries of Christ have serious problems and that the order will have to be completely reformed.

Edited May 29, 2010 by Apotheoun

[CatherineM]

I guess no one had any examples of other movements in the church founded on Protestant theologies/principals.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='CatherineM' date='29 May 2010 - 10:01 AM' timestamp='1275145309' post='2120194']
I guess no one had any examples of other movements in the church founded on Protestant theologies/principals.
[/quote]

Jansenism was based on Calvinist principles.

[homeschoolmom]

Locking this thread until a mod can go through it.