dominicansoul Posted May 27, 2010 Share Posted May 27, 2010 [quote name='KnightofChrist' date='27 May 2010 - 01:17 AM' timestamp='1274937468' post='2118943'] Lately you like to hate on me personally. [/quote] don't play the whiny victim, I don't HATE, period. I oppose your points of view because I find them extremely generalizing...and judging whole groups on the account of a few, (which you do quite often regardless of the topic at hand,) well...that just doesn't make any sense to me...you shouldn't take that personally... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted May 27, 2010 Share Posted May 27, 2010 (edited) [quote name='dominicansoul' date='27 May 2010 - 10:57 AM' timestamp='1274972221' post='2119101'] don't play the whiny victim, I don't HATE, period. I oppose your points of view because I find them extremely generalizing...and judging whole groups on the account of a few, (which you do quite often regardless of the topic at hand,) well...that just doesn't make any sense to me...you shouldn't take that personally... [/quote] Calling me a 'whiny victim' is attacking my character personally. Also known as "hate'n." You are confused your current complain against me is extremely generalizing and judgmental. It is also false. You have gone out of your way to call me prideful, and a pharisees, amongst other personal attacks. I for the most part until now have ignored them. I try to avoid attacking the person I am debating and instead 'attack' the actual topic, sometimes because I am human I do not fully live up to that, but more often than not I stay on topic. While others seem to love to call me names and attack me when they cannot respond to the actual topic. You're not the only one many others have the same problem you have, they cannot separate the topic of a debate from the person they are debating. When they cannot gain ground by attacking the topic, they attack the messenger and try to discredit him or her as heartless, racist, prideful, foolish, blah blah blah bling bling blah blah. When you're reading to debate the actual topic and not your dislike or hate of me, I'm ready when you are. God Bless. Edited May 27, 2010 by KnightofChrist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selah Posted May 27, 2010 Share Posted May 27, 2010 Don't mind me, I'm just here for the sangrias. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacredheartandbloodofjesus Posted May 27, 2010 Share Posted May 27, 2010 Lets get some more of the Popes oppinions of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal.... In his first meeting with the international council for the Catholic Charismatic Renewal in 1979, John Paul II expressed similar sentiments, saying, “Thank you. It was an expression of faith. Indeed, the singing, the words and the gestures. It is… how does one say it? I can say that it is a revolution of this living expression of the faith. We say that the faith is a matter of the intelligence, and at times also of the heart, but this expressive dimension has been absent. This dimension of the faith was diminished, indeed inhibited, scarcely there. Now we can say that this movement is everywhere” (December 11, 1979). “Thanks to the Charismatic Movement, a multitude of Christians, men and women, young people and adults have rediscovered Pentecost as a living reality in their daily lives.” (Celebration of First Vespers of Pentecost, Homily of John Paul II, Saturday, May 29, 2004). John Paul II was “convinced that this movement is a very important component of the entire renewal of the Church” (Dec. 11, 1979, speaking to a group of international Renewal leaders). Furthermore, during a Pentecost homily, he specially spoke these words concerning the Renewal: “I hope that the spirituality of Pentecost will spread in the Church as a renewed incentive to prayer, holiness, communion and proclamation” (Celebration of First Vespers of Pentecost, Saturday, May 29, 2004) Paul VI said, “It (the Charismatic Renewal) ought to rejuvenate the world, give it back a spirituality, a soul, and religious thought; it ought to reopen its closed lips to prayer and open its mouth to song, to joy, to hymns, and to witnessing...because in today’s world, we either live our faith with devotion, with depth, with energy and with joy or we will lose it” (May 19, 1975, Address at International Charismatic Renewal Conference in Rome) in 1975, Paul VI said to the leaders of the Renewal, “It will be very fortuitous for our times, for the faithful, that there should be a generation…who shouts out to the world the glory and the greatness of the God of Pentecost…This grace needs to be experienced in its fullness…We live in the Church in a privileged moment of the Holy Spirit…The Church and the world need more than ever that 'the miracle of Pentecost' should continue in history.” Again, we listen the words of John Paul II: “The Charismatic Renewal is an eloquent manifestation of this vitality today, a bold statement of what ‘the Spirit is saying to the churches’ (Rev. 2,7)” (May 15, 1987 at the Sixth International Assembly of the Charismatic Renewal). John Paul II encouraged the Charismatic Renewal to be “living signs of hope, a light of the Good News of Christ for all men and women of our times” (cf. no.2. Message at the 8th International Meeting of the Catholic Fraternity of Charismatic Covenant Communities and Fellowships, June 1, 1998). Pope John Paul II: “For this reason, I also say to you: ‘Open yourselves with docility to the gifts of the Holy Spirit! Receive with gratitude and obedience the charisms that the Spirit does not cease to offer! Do not forget that all charisms are given for the common good, that is, for the benefit of the whole Church!” 1998 “The Catholic Charismatic Renewal has helped many Christians to rediscover the presence and power of the Holy Spirit... and this rediscovery has awakened in them a faith in Christ filled with joy.” 1998 “Open yourselves meekly to the gifts of the Holy Spirit! Accept with gratitude and obedience the gifts that the Spirit does not cease to give! Do not forget that each charism is given for the common, in other words for the benefit of the Church!” May 2004 “Thanks to the Charismatic Movement, a multitude of Christians, men and women, young people and adults have rediscovered Pentecost as a living reality in their daily lives. I hope that the spirituality of Pentecost will spread in the Church as a renewed incentive to prayer, holiness, communion and proclamation.” May 29, 2004 Pope Benedict XVI (as Cardinal Ratzinger): “...and the Charismatic Renewal ...I think this is a sign of the Springtime and of the presence of the Holy Spirit, today will give new charisms and so on. This is for me really a great hope that not with organization from authorities, but really it is the force of the Holy Spirit present in the people.” Pope Benedict spoke about the Charismatic Renewal(When he was Cardinal) in a book written with the journalist Vittorio Messori: “Ratzinger Report” (1985). Here are two passages from that book: “What sounds full of hope throughout the universal church - and this even in the midst of the crisis that the Church is going through in the Western world - is the upsurge of new movements that no one has planned and no one called into being, but that simply emerge of their own accord from the inner vitality of the faith. What is becoming apparent in them - albeit very faintly - is something very similar to a pentecostal hour in the Church. I am thinking for instance of the Charismatic Renewal movement, the Cursillo movement, the Focolarini, Communion and Liberation, and so on... I find it marvelous that the Spirit is once more stronger than our programs and brings himself into play in an altogether different way than we had imagined.... It grows in silence. Our task - the task of the officeholders in the Church and of theologians - is to keep the door open to them, to prepare room for them...” (pp. 43-44). “The period following the Council scarcely seemed to live up to the hopes of John XXIII, who looked for a ‘"new Pentecost"’. But his prayer did not go unheard. In the heart of a world desiccated by rationalistic scepticism a new experience of the Holy Spirit has come about, amounting to a worldwide renewal movement. What the New Testament describes, with reference to the charisms, as visible signs of the coming of the Spirit is no longer merely ancient, past history - this history is becoming a burning reality today.”(p.151). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ephrem Augustine Posted May 27, 2010 Share Posted May 27, 2010 [quote name='Selah' date='27 May 2010 - 03:32 PM' timestamp='1274992354' post='2119252'] Don't mind me, I'm just here for the sangrias. [/quote] If anybody is in here for personal attacks, then please leave. If you want to have a debate about the legitimacy of the charismatic renewal, then lets do that. Personally, I think charismatics need to learn to think critically of the whole thing in light of the tradition of the Church. If it can be moderated appropriately, I think it can be a decent thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted May 27, 2010 Share Posted May 27, 2010 [quote name='KnightofChrist' date='27 May 2010 - 03:20 PM' timestamp='1274988045' post='2119220'] Calling me a 'whiny victim' is attacking my character personally. Also known as "hate'n." You are confused your current complain against me is extremely generalizing and judgmental. It is also false. You have gone out of your way to call me prideful, and a pharisees, amongst other personal attacks. I for the most part until now have ignored them. I try to avoid attacking the person I am debating and instead 'attack' the actual topic, sometimes because I am human I do not fully live up to that, but more often than not I stay on topic. While others seem to love to call me names and attack me when they cannot respond to the actual topic. You're not the only one many others have the same problem you have, they cannot separate the topic of a debate from the person they are debating. When they cannot gain ground by attacking the topic, they attack the messenger and try to discredit him or her as heartless, racist, prideful, foolish, blah blah blah bling bling blah blah. When you're reading to debate the actual topic and not your dislike or hate of me, I'm ready when you are. God Bless. [/quote] you post this and you don't think you are acting the "whiny victim?" I've just called you out for the incredible generalizing you do throughout the debate board, and you keep repeating and repeating and repeating and never give sources for your points, which is why many here figure it is your own opinion... like i said before, i dont hate anybody...i don't remember calling you prideful or a pharisee, or a racist or heartless, but perhaps your own comments or posts obliged you to believe these were referencing you...i disagree with your posts, they are often a generalization of groups, arguments which give a sweeping judgment over a topic that is very diverse... I just see a pattern in all your debates...it's like, your opinion counts, all others don't, that's it, AMEN...and if there is a differing opinion it must be from the devil, or heresy, or some other damnable charge you make... .if you take what i say personally, than you are not paying attention to the posts...you have often criticized and belittled others for their opinions...(I'd rather not give an example, as i'm sure the parties involved wouldn't want me to...) you need to really take a good look at what you yourself do here, buddy.. this is totally off-topic and i apologize to the rest for my rant... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted May 27, 2010 Share Posted May 27, 2010 (edited) [quote name='dominicansoul' date='27 May 2010 - 06:24 PM' timestamp='1274999082' post='2119330'] you post this and you don't think you are acting the "whiny victim?" I've just called you out for the incredible generalizing you do throughout the debate board, and you keep repeating and repeating and repeating and never give sources for your points, which is why many here figure it is your own opinion... like i said before, i dont hate anybody...i don't remember calling you prideful or a pharisee, or a racist or heartless, but perhaps your own comments or posts obliged you to believe these were referencing you...i disagree with your posts, they are often a generalization of groups, arguments which give a sweeping judgment over a topic that is very diverse... I just see a pattern in all your debates...it's like, your opinion counts, all others don't, that's it, AMEN...and if there is a differing opinion it must be from the devil, or heresy, or some other damnable charge you make... .if you take what i say personally, than you are not paying attention to the posts...you have often criticized and belittled others for their opinions...(I'd rather not give an example, as i'm sure the parties involved wouldn't want me to...) you need to really take a good look at what you yourself do here, buddy.. this is totally off-topic and i apologize to the rest for my rant... [/quote] I stand by my previous post, and as for a response to yours, frankly my dear I don't give a dåmn. When your ready to debate the topic and cease trying to discredit me personally I welcome the debate. Edited May 27, 2010 by KnightofChrist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted May 27, 2010 Share Posted May 27, 2010 [quote name='Ephrem Augustine' date='27 May 2010 - 06:05 PM' timestamp='1274997955' post='2119312'] If anybody is in here for personal attacks, then please leave. If you want to have a debate about the legitimacy of the charismatic renewal, then lets do that. [/quote] O wouldn't it be lovely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted May 27, 2010 Share Posted May 27, 2010 [quote name='dominicansoul' date='27 May 2010 - 05:24 PM' timestamp='1274999082' post='2119330']I just see a pattern in all your debates...it's like, your opinion counts, all others don't, that's it, AMEN...and if there is a differing opinion it must be from the devil, or heresy, or some other damnable charge you make... [/quote] That has also been my experience. As to the original topic, are there any other movements or orders in the church that have their foundations in Protestantism? I'm not including things such as TAC churches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selah Posted May 27, 2010 Share Posted May 27, 2010 [quote]If anybody is in here for personal attacks, then please leave. If you want to have a debate about the legitimacy of the charismatic renewal, then lets do that.[/quote] lulz. That was not a "personal attack." I didn't personally attack anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted May 27, 2010 Share Posted May 27, 2010 [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5jMFFS1ez0http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5jMFFS1ez0[/media] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted May 28, 2010 Share Posted May 28, 2010 [img]http://media.publicbroadcasting.net/wkms/newsroom/images/3184887.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selah Posted May 28, 2010 Share Posted May 28, 2010 [quote] frankly my dear I don't give a dåmn. [/quote] That was a horrible movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted May 28, 2010 Share Posted May 28, 2010 [quote name='KnightofChrist' date='27 May 2010 - 06:29 PM' timestamp='1274999347' post='2119334'] frankly my dear I don't give a dåmn. [/quote] it's obvious you do, or you wouldn't have whined about it in the first place... [quote]When your ready to debate the topic and cease trying to discredit me personally I welcome the debate.[/quote] pushing your opinion over and over again while damning everybody's elses isn't what I would call "debating." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
organwerke Posted May 28, 2010 Share Posted May 28, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Apotheoun' date='26 May 2010 - 11:49 PM' timestamp='1274910559' post='2118490'] One other thing is clear, the movement has divided the Catholic Church, and that cannot be a good thing. [/quote] First of all, you should say: the movement has divided persons in the Catholic Church, and not the Catholic Church. Then, I think that it is a quite normal that this happens when there isn't a definitive, official position of the Church yet. I could do an example that touches me directly. I'm an Opus Dei coworker. Opus Dei is quite new as a reality in the Catholic Church, and before it was approved, many persons, also priests, thought that it was heretical, that it was devil's work etc. Then, in 1982 Opus Dei was erected in a Praelatura Personalis and it was so completely approved as an apostolic institution of the Catholic Church. In 2003 its founder was declared saint. So, those who thought that it was heretical were evidently wrong. Now, returning to the Charismatic movement, I think that you are the first one who is trying to divide the faithfuls doing this poll. But, as yourself said, the faith is not a matter of opinion, nor of polls. So, I think this poll is completely useless. Of course, my vote couldn't be anything else than the positition of the Catholic church. I have seen some experiences, I have matured some opinions, but they are just my opinions and as opinions they don't count nothing. I am simply praying and waiting for what the Church says. Edited May 28, 2010 by organwerke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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