Communion W/out Confession

[fides' Jack]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='25 May 2010 - 10:49 PM' timestamp='1274845798' post='2118001']
Nope.

"Imperfect contrition cannot obtain the forgiveness of grave sins, but it disposes one to obtain forgiveness in the sacrament of Penance." ([i]Catechism of the Catholic Church[/i], no. 1453)
[/quote]


Very well. You've proven me wrong.

[fides' Jack]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='25 May 2010 - 10:53 PM' timestamp='1274845990' post='2118005']
In such a scenario, one should just make one's best attempt at an act of perfect contrition. If canon law obliges a person to make an act of perfect contrition in certain circumstances (as it does when one has committed a mortal sin but has a grave reason for receiving holy Communion), then it can't be impossible or near-impossible.
[/quote]

Here's the problem I have with the whole thing: what could possibly be construed as a "grave reason for receiving holy communion?" That just doesn't make sense to me.

[mortify]

[quote name='MissScripture' date='25 May 2010 - 11:54 PM' timestamp='1274846043' post='2118008']
And anyway, if we go to communion without going to confession first, couldn't we then be comitting a sin of presumption?
[/quote]

Good question... but I think the point of what I was told by a priest was that I need not deny myself Communion if I was unable to make it to confession. So perfect contrition is not a substitute for the Sacrament, but merely a temporary means allowing me to receive the Eucharist until I offer my confession.

[fides' Jack]

[quote name='MissScripture' date='25 May 2010 - 10:54 PM' timestamp='1274846043' post='2118008']
I would say that's part of why purgatory exists.

And I think Rexi is right, because I remember a priest once telling me that we're lucky as Catholics, because we only need an imperfect contrition because we have confession. Any other Christian needs a perfect contrition.

And anyway, if we go to communion without going to confession first, couldn't we then be comitting a sin of presumption?
[/quote]


Honestly, I think we're all kind of saying the same thing on this page. You can't go to Communion if you have a Mortal Sin on your soul.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='fides' Jack' date='25 May 2010 - 10:58 PM' timestamp='1274846307' post='2118013']
Here's the problem I have with the whole thing: what could possibly be construed as a "grave reason for receiving holy communion?" That just doesn't make sense to me.
[/quote]

If a priest were in the country several hours away from any other priest to whom he could confess, and if the priest had to celebrate a Mass of obligation for the people of the town, I could see that as a grave reason to celebrate Mass without having first confessed a mortal sin he had committed. Obviously, in such a case he would have to make an act of perfect contrition, and then he would have to go to confession as soon as possible. "As soon as possible" is interpreted as being within three days.

Edited May 26, 2010 by Resurrexi

[fides' Jack]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='25 May 2010 - 11:00 PM' timestamp='1274846444' post='2118017']
If a priest were in the country several hours away from any other priest to whom he could confess, and if the priest had to celebrate a Mass of obligation for the people of the town, I could see that as a grave reason to celebrate Mass without having first confessed a mortal sin he had committed. Obviously, in such a case he would have to make an act of perfect contrition, and then he would have to go to confession as soon as possible. "As soon as possible" is interpreted as being within three days.
[/quote]

So, basically, "grave reason" applies to the individual priest, not the lay faithful.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='fides' Jack' date='25 May 2010 - 11:03 PM' timestamp='1274846604' post='2118018']
So, basically, "grave reason" applies to the individual priest, not the lay faithful.
[/quote]

I really only envision it as applying to a priest who has to celebrate a Mass of obligation for the people, but I guess it could maybe apply to laypeople as well in some rare circumstance that I'm unable to come up with.

[IgnatiusOfAntioch]

[quote name='fides' Jack' date='25 May 2010 - 10:00 PM' timestamp='1274846403' post='2118016']
You can't go to Communion if you have a Mortal Sin on your soul.
[/quote]

Yup, that's the bottom line.

[mortify]

[color="#0000FF"][i][size="4"]"Anyone who desires to receive Christ in Eucharistic communion must be in the state of grace. Anyone aware of having sinned mortally must not receive communion without having received absolution in the sacrament of penance."[/size][/i][/color]

Catechism of the Catholic Church, section 1415


That's the closest I could find thus far.

[Rebecca2009]

[quote name='zunshynn' date='25 May 2010 - 09:02 PM' timestamp='1274839341' post='2117867']
This is true, however, it's important to remember that the priest who gave this advice knew the context of the situation, and we do not. It is quite possible that the confessor, given his knowledge of the penitent, may have recognized that full culpability was not involved in this particular person's situation, for whatever reason, even if it was objectively grave matter, in which case he would know if this person should be advised to continue receiving Holy Communion under the circumstances.
[/quote]

Yes, this is along the lines of what my Priest has told me too.
I think what Jesus has shown me is to trust the leadership that He has placed in my life. I can tend to be scrupulous, so I need to trust in His mercy much more than I do. He doesn't want us to be in a constant state of anxiety.

[Ziggamafu]

[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' date='25 May 2010 - 12:30 AM' timestamp='1274761824' post='2117070']
That's my understanding. Extraordinary circumstances. Although I've always been confused as to what that might be. I'm thinking maybe something like in the villages in Africa, where Mass in only celebrated once or twice a year and one might not be able to confess before Mass (lots of confessions too, I'd imagine).
[/quote]

As far as I can tell, the "grave reason" has traditionally been understood to imply danger of scandal, which makes sense to me. For instance, a priest who consecrates the bread and wine could perhaps cause scandal by abstaining from the Eucharist in front of the congregation. A Catholic spouse-to-be could perhaps cause scandal by abstaining from the Eucharist within the context of the wedding. There are unending examples. The point is to not treat the sacrifice of our Lord lightly; if the situation seems "grave" (I don't think this should strictly be taken as "in danger of death"), make a perfect act of contrition and resolve to go to confession as soon as possible.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='25 May 2010 - 10:20 PM' timestamp='1274836834' post='2117829']
That priest was wrong if we are talking about mortal sin in this situation. Unless there is a [i]grave[/i] reason, then it is incredibly inappropriate to receive Communion before sacramental Confession if one has committed a mortal sin.
[/quote]

Isn't that the big "if?" In the context of addictive behavior, sins of grave matter are not mortal because the addiction deprives a person of their free will.

[quote name='fides' Jack' date='25 May 2010 - 10:35 PM' timestamp='1274837712' post='2117845']
Is this seriously an issue that is unclear? I'm very sorry if I'm being rude, but it is a greater sin - a sin a sacrilege - to receive Holy Communion unworthily. This is a matter that every Catholic should understand perfectly.[/quote]

The question isn't about receiving Communion unworthily -- it's about defining the state of being worthy.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='MissScripture' date='26 May 2010 - 12:54 AM' timestamp='1274846043' post='2118008']
And I think Rexi is right, because I remember a priest once telling me that we're lucky as Catholics, because we only need an imperfect contrition because we have confession. Any other Christian needs a perfect contrition.
[/quote]

Good thing God can give the grace of perfect contrition to Protestants too

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' date='27 May 2010 - 07:55 PM' timestamp='1275008133' post='2119458']
Good thing God can give the grace of perfect contrition to Protestants too
[/quote]

Being Protestant is a grave sin [i]per se[/i].

[fides' Jack]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' date='27 May 2010 - 07:52 PM' timestamp='1275007923' post='2119455']
Isn't that the big "if?" In the context of addictive behavior, sins of grave matter are not mortal because the addiction deprives a person of their free will.



The question isn't about receiving Communion unworthily -- it's about defining the state of being worthy.
[/quote]


Woah - that is something we absolutely cannot do - which is judge the state of another's soul. Good thing we're just talking about hypothetical situations here. Still, you can't say for sure that any addiction deprives a person of their free will, and thereby makes any sin venial rather than mortal. That is something that is strictly between the sinner and God. There are many different degrees of addiction, and at any moment what you say might be true or untrue.

Fortunately for us, the Church has already defined the state of being worthy, and each person must use the Church's definition to determine whether or not they are actually "worthy" to receive. No other person can make that determination for them, in normal circumstances, anyway.