Communion W/out Confession

[mortify]

Let me ask another question.

Is there any precident for permitting penitents who are sorrowful, yet did not receive sacramental confession, in receiving the Eucharist? Or is this an innovative practice?

[fides' Jack]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='25 May 2010 - 08:38 PM' timestamp='1274837926' post='2117847']
That's only the case if one has perfect contrition.

"When it arises from a love by which God is loved above all else, contrition is called "perfect" (contrition of charity). Such contrition remits venial sins; it also obtains forgiveness of mortal sins if it includes the firm resolution to have recourse to sacramental confession as soon as possible." ([i]Catechism of the Catholic Church[/i], no. 1452)

Additionally, even if one has been forgiven his mortal sin by perfect contrition and the intention to confess as soon as possible, one is still forbidden from receiving holy Communion until he has received absolution. Only for a [i]grave[/i] reason may one receive holy Communion if one has had his sins forgive through perfect contrition and has not yet been absolved.
[/quote]


I agree with you, Resurrexi, in that people shouldn't (under any circumstance I can possibly imagine) ever go to Communion in a state of Mortal Sin. My point was that what was said in this forum, (that the intention to confess is sufficient to be forgiven) is flawed.

However, it is not necessary to have perfect contrition to be forgiven of mortal sin. Very few people ever have perfect contrition throughout their lives. Imperfect contrition is sufficient. BUT - that doesn't mean they can then go to Communion - far from it. They should [i]try[/i] to make an act of perfect contrition, and then refrain from receiving Communion until they have gone first to Confession.

[fides' Jack]

[quote name='zunshynn' date='25 May 2010 - 09:02 PM' timestamp='1274839341' post='2117867']
This is true, however, it's important to remember that the priest who gave this advice knew the context of the situation, and we do not. It is quite possible that the confessor, given his knowledge of the penitent, may have recognized that full culpability was not involved in this particular person's situation, for whatever reason, even if it was objectively grave matter, in which case he would know if this person should be advised to continue receiving Holy Communion under the circumstances.
[/quote]


I'm not saying anything against this priest. I know nothing about the particulars. If that were the case (what you say above), then it is in fact not a Mortal Sin, and the priest would be correct in advising the person to go to Communion.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='fides' Jack' date='25 May 2010 - 10:32 PM' timestamp='1274844739' post='2117989']
However, it is not necessary to have perfect contrition to be forgiven of mortal sin. Very few people ever have perfect contrition throughout their lives. Imperfect contrition is sufficient. BUT - that doesn't mean they can then go to Communion - far from it. They should [i]try[/i] to make an act of perfect contrition, and then refrain from receiving Communion until they have gone first to Confession.
[/quote]

Perfect contrition is necessary to be forgive of a sin outside of the sacrament of Confession (or Baptism, for that matter). Within the sacrament of Penance, imperfect contrition suffices.

[MissScripture]

[quote name='fides' Jack' date='25 May 2010 - 11:32 PM' timestamp='1274844739' post='2117989']
I agree with you, Resurrexi, in that people shouldn't (under any circumstance I can possibly imagine) ever go to Communion in a state of Mortal Sin. My point was that what was said in this forum, (that the intention to confess is sufficient to be forgiven) is flawed.

However, it is not necessary to have perfect contrition to be forgiven of mortal sin. Very few people ever have perfect contrition throughout their lives. Imperfect contrition is sufficient. BUT - that doesn't mean they can then go to Communion - far from it. They should [i]try[/i] to make an act of perfect contrition, and then refrain from receiving Communion until they have gone first to Confession.
[/quote]
What exactly constitutes perfect contrition? I had it explained to me once a long time ago, but I don't really remember/I don't think I really understood what it even meant then.

And I don't think he was saying that you have to have perfect contrition to be forgive of a mortal sin, just that you need to have perfect contrition to be forgiven of a mortal sin WITHOUT going to confession. But I could be mistaken.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='MissScripture' date='25 May 2010 - 10:40 PM' timestamp='1274845201' post='2117993']
What exactly constitutes perfect contrition? I had it explained to me once a long time ago, but I don't really remember/I don't think I really understood what it even meant then. [/quote]

Perfect contrition is sorrow for sin out of love for God.

[quote name='MissScripture' date='25 May 2010 - 10:40 PM' timestamp='1274845201' post='2117993']
And I don't think he was saying that you have to have perfect contrition to be forgive of a mortal sin, just that you need to have perfect contrition to be forgiven of a mortal sin WITHOUT going to confession.[/quote]

Yes, that was what I was saying.

Edited May 26, 2010 by Resurrexi

[Catholic Fox]

[quote name='MissScripture' date='25 May 2010 - 10:40 PM' timestamp='1274845201' post='2117993']
What exactly constitutes perfect contrition? I had it explained to me once a long time ago, but I don't really remember/I don't think I really understood what it even meant then.


[/quote]

It is being sorry for the sin because you have offended God, not because of any fear of punishment.

[fides' Jack]

[quote name='mortify' date='25 May 2010 - 09:47 PM' timestamp='1274842032' post='2117924']
Let me ask another question.

Is there any precident for permitting penitents who are sorrowful, yet did not receive sacramental confession, in receiving the Eucharist? Or is this an innovative practice?
[/quote]


If the person is a Catholic, in good standing with the Church, and is not known to have committed mortal sin without going to Confession, then there is no reason to advise him against receiving. If he has said that he has committed mortal sin and has not gone to Confession, then under no circumstances should he be advised to do such a thing. To advise such would be to put that person's soul in jeopardy, and also your own, if you are the one doing the advising.

I can't imagine a single scenario, at least in our society, in which a person who is guilty of mortal sin could possibly need to receive the Eucharist without first going to Confession. If a person is dying on a cruise ship, and there are no priests on board, and you happen to have a host with you to give him, consider this: it is better for him to die sorrowful without receiving the host than for him to receive It unworthily and not die. It is far worse than that, even, if he died having received It unworthily.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Catholic Fox' date='25 May 2010 - 10:43 PM' timestamp='1274845380' post='2117996']
It is being sorry for the sin because you have offended God, not because of any fear of punishment.
[/quote]

One can be sorry for sin both out of love for God and out of fear of His just punishments. In that case, one would have both perfect and imperfect contrition.

[fides' Jack]

[quote name='Catholic Fox' date='25 May 2010 - 10:43 PM' timestamp='1274845380' post='2117996']
It is being sorry for the sin because you have offended God, not because of any fear of punishment.
[/quote]


Right, while imperfect contrition is being sorry for the sin for another reason, such as fear of punishment.

So, hypothetically, if you were dying, and feared you were in the state of mortal sin, and you were sorry because you knew you were dying and were afraid of going to hell, and you tried to make an act of perfect contrition, but were only capable of imperfect contrition, do you think God would ignore your plea for forgiveness?

I'll check up on it later, but I'm 99% sure that imperfect contrition is sufficient for forgiveness at any time. But we're off-topic. Just because you can trust that God will forgive you if you are sorry doesn't mean you should ever go to Communion without going to Confession first. Confession is the sacrament that Christ instituted so that we could obtain forgiveness. If we're really sorry, whether perfectly or not, we'll go to Confession before receiving.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='fides' Jack' date='25 May 2010 - 10:48 PM' timestamp='1274845690' post='2118000']
I'll check up on it later, but I'm 99% sure that imperfect contrition is sufficient for forgiveness at any time.
[/quote]

Nope.

"Imperfect contrition cannot obtain the forgiveness of grave sins, but it disposes one to obtain forgiveness in the sacrament of Penance." ([i]Catechism of the Catholic Church[/i], no. 1453)

Edited May 26, 2010 by Resurrexi

[MissScripture]

[quote name='fides' Jack' date='25 May 2010 - 11:43 PM' timestamp='1274845381' post='2117997']
If the person is a Catholic, in good standing with the Church, and is not known to have committed mortal sin without going to Confession, then there is no reason to advise him against receiving. If he has said that he has committed mortal sin and has not gone to Confession, then under no circumstances should he be advised to do such a thing. To advise such would be to put that person's soul in jeopardy, and also your own, if you are the one doing the advising.

I can't imagine a single scenario, at least in our society, in which a person who is guilty of mortal sin could possibly need to receive the Eucharist without first going to Confession. If a person is dying on a cruise ship, and there are no priests on board, and you happen to have a host with you to give him, consider this: it is better for him to die sorrowful without receiving the host than for him to receive It unworthily and not die. It is far worse than that, even, if he died having received It unworthily.
[/quote]
I was kind of wondering about that, too. I mean, there must be some sort of scenario, or there wouldn't be this rule, but I can't figure one out. I mean, there was once when I really needed to go to confession, but I seriously could not find a priest (drove to 5 different churches, and they were all not there or busy with funerals or something) and by the end I was pretty distraught, but figured if I died before actually getting a chance to confess, at least God knew I was sincere in wanting to confess, so I might just get extra time in purgatory, and not so much have to go the whole Hell route, but I STILL wouldn't have taken communion without going first to confession, because I still KNEW I was not really in a state of grace. Moral of the story: A situation where this rule could logically be applied does not seem likely.

[mortify]

[quote name='fides' Jack' date='25 May 2010 - 11:32 PM' timestamp='1274844739' post='2117989']
I agree with you, Resurrexi, in that people shouldn't (under any circumstance I can possibly imagine) ever go to Communion in a state of Mortal Sin. My point was that what was said in this forum, (that the intention to confess is sufficient to be forgiven) is flawed.[/quote]

Not merely an intention but perfect sorrow as well, and this does in-fact confer justification outside of the Sacrament. That this is the basis for "not holding one sacrament hostage to another," as one priest told me, is my own speculation.

[quote]However, it is not necessary to have perfect contrition to be forgiven of mortal sin.[/quote]

Perfect contrition is necessary outside of the Sacrament.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='MissScripture' date='25 May 2010 - 10:50 PM' timestamp='1274845810' post='2118002']
I was kind of wondering about that, too. I mean, there must be some sort of scenario, or there wouldn't be this rule, but I can't figure one out. I mean, there was once when I really needed to go to confession, but I seriously could not find a priest (drove to 5 different churches, and they were all not there or busy with funerals or something) and by the end I was pretty distraught, but figured if I died before actually getting a chance to confess, at least God knew I was sincere in wanting to confess, so I might just get extra time in purgatory, and not so much have to go the whole Hell route, but I STILL wouldn't have taken communion without going first to confession, because I still KNEW I was not really in a state of grace. Moral of the story: A situation where this rule could logically be applied does not seem likely.
[/quote]

In such a scenario, one should just make one's best attempt at an act of perfect contrition. If canon law obliges a person to make an act of perfect contrition in certain circumstances (as it does when one has committed a mortal sin but has a grave reason for receiving holy Communion), then it can't be impossible or near-impossible.

[MissScripture]

[quote name='fides' Jack' date='25 May 2010 - 11:48 PM' timestamp='1274845690' post='2118000']
Right, while imperfect contrition is being sorry for the sin for another reason, such as fear of punishment.

So, hypothetically, if you were dying, and feared you were in the state of mortal sin, and you were sorry because you knew you were dying and were afraid of going to hell, and you tried to make an act of perfect contrition, but were only capable of imperfect contrition, do you think God would ignore your plea for forgiveness?

I'll check up on it later, but I'm 99% sure that imperfect contrition is sufficient for forgiveness at any time. But we're off-topic. Just because you can trust that God will forgive you if you are sorry doesn't mean you should ever go to Communion without going to Confession first. Confession is the sacrament that Christ instituted so that we could obtain forgiveness. If we're really sorry, whether perfectly or not, we'll go to Confession before receiving.
[/quote]
I would say that's part of why purgatory exists.

And I think Rexi is right, because I remember a priest once telling me that we're lucky as Catholics, because we only need an imperfect contrition because we have confession. Any other Christian needs a perfect contrition.

And anyway, if we go to communion without going to confession first, couldn't we then be comitting a sin of presumption?