KnightofChrist Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 [quote name='Selah' date='25 May 2010 - 04:49 PM' timestamp='1274820543' post='2117500'] Your words are not infallible. Show us a document by a Pope claiming this and I might believe you. [/quote] No one cared when I posted the words of Pope Paul VI warning against the use of so called Charismatic gifts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 [quote name='Ziggamafu' date='25 May 2010 - 06:06 AM' timestamp='1274789173' post='2117162'] The true gifts of the Holy Spirit are supernatural, remove confusion, and have endless amounts of explicit evidence throughout Church history, as well as authoritative support from the councils. Glossolalia is natural and cross-cultural, causes confusion, has no explicit precedent in Church history (outside of modern sects of heretical Protestantism), and lacks any formal support from the councils. There are a great many doctrinal and liturgical innovations in our modern era to choose from, all of which claim authenticity. The true gift of tongues was indeed a miracle of God - and reversed Babel - but glossolalia is not the true gift of tongues. Glossolalia [i]is [/i]Babel. [/quote] Well said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePenciledOne Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 [quote name='KnightofChrist' date='25 May 2010 - 05:46 PM' timestamp='1274820401' post='2117496'] It is very true a fact of historical truth. The Charismatic renewal is nothing more than Protestant Pentecostal heretical teaching. [/quote] Ok, one sentences does not verify. Don't mean to pick on you KoC, but the thing is that this is nothing more than opinion. The Vatican has approved the Charismatic Renewal since the 70s, why people such as yourself are still bickering about it, I do not understand. [quote name='KnightofChrist' date='25 May 2010 - 05:47 PM' timestamp='1274820479' post='2117498'] What happened at Pentecost happened only once, and will never happen again. [i]In my opinion.[/i] [/quote] Fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 [quote name='iheartjp2' date='25 May 2010 - 04:51 PM' timestamp='1274820686' post='2117503'] Well, so be it, then. I've asked you to tell me exactly how this happened, but you seem to only be able to make a connection based on the fact that Protestants did it and now Catholics are, too. I won't say anymore; you've made up your mind. [/quote] The article posted earlier goes into great detail of how the Charismatic movement began it's roots in Protestant heresy. http://credo.stormloader.com/Doctrine/pentecon.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iheartjp2 Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 [quote name='iheartjp2' date='25 May 2010 - 04:51 PM' timestamp='1274820686' post='2117503'] Well, so be it, then. I've asked you to tell me exactly how this happened, but you seem to only be able to make a connection based on the fact that Protestants did it and now Catholics are, too. [s]I won't say anymore[/s]; you've made up your mind. [/quote] Okay, I take that back. May I direct you back to post #66? I kindly pointed out that no one knows what he's talking about because no one has the context of his words, or even the document that they're from. You seem to not have listened to this, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selah Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 [quote]No one cared when I posted the words of Pope Paul VI warning against the use of so called Charismatic gifts. [/quote] Please excuse me. I didn't see that. Can you at least try to understand my frustration here? Can you try to see why I get irritated when people blame the devil for everything? Tongues included? You don't know what is happening. It's between them and God. I don't know what I believe about it, but I wouldn't automatically rule out something like that so hastily. That's partially why I left Catholicism. I couldn't stand this "I know this is right" attitude when in reality, you don't. No one does. Hence why it's called "faith" and not "fact". Can you just for a second try to see this from my point of view? Please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePenciledOne Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 [quote name='ThePenciledOne' date='25 May 2010 - 05:36 PM' timestamp='1274819788' post='2117484'] Yes and that is why there is discernment into these spirits are needed, though sadly most people forget about the need for discernment. Of course you are an authority in which we can believe your judgment. And the way things are going, I think the world could use more of a New Pentecost for the Body here on Earth. [/quote] Really a -1? I am asking for more discernment, which requires not only reason, but grace. And then I am asking for the believers here on Earth to have their hearts turned to flame once more and go out and evangelize again??? I apologize if I am getting slightly bitter or angry, but I am finding this blanant opinion based discussion tiresome and when I say something such as this, I find it disheartening for a community of Catholics to disagree with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 [quote name='ThePenciledOne' date='25 May 2010 - 04:53 PM' timestamp='1274820788' post='2117507'] Ok, one sentences does not verify. Don't mean to pick on you KoC, but the thing is that this is nothing more than opinion. The Vatican has approved the Charismatic Renewal since the 70s, why people such as yourself are still bickering about it, I do not understand. Fixed. [/quote] If you or anyone else truly wants to understand why Pentecost can only happen once and never again, please listen to this... http://www.sensustraditionis.org/webaudio/Sermons/KC/Disk%201/Pentecost.mp3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 [quote name='KnightofChrist' date='25 May 2010 - 02:36 PM' timestamp='1274819771' post='2117483'] The roots of the Charismatic Renewal is found in Protestant Pentecostal heresy. The roots of a tree are just as important as its fruit. If roots are poison, the fruit will be also poison. [/quote] I do not see why this post was given a negative point. I was a member of the Methodist Church, which has connections with the Pentecostal movement, and so I can attest to the fact that the theology underlying Pentecostalism is Protestant, not Catholic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 [quote name='Selah' date='25 May 2010 - 04:55 PM' timestamp='1274820902' post='2117510'] Please excuse me. I didn't see that. Can you at least try to understand my frustration here? Can you try to see why I get irritated when people blame the devil for everything? Tongues included? You don't know what is happening. It's between them and God. I don't know what I believe about it, but I wouldn't automatically rule out something like that so hastily. [/quote] I've researched this topic numerous and countless times. Again, the devil is behind everything wicked and disordered. Sorry that upsets you. But Satan is very very real and he wishes to devour your soul, as well as mine. He is a real enemy, and we are at war with him. [quote name='Selah' date='25 May 2010 - 04:55 PM' timestamp='1274820902' post='2117510']That's partially why I left Catholicism. I couldn't stand this "I know this is right" attitude when in reality, you don't. No one does. Hence why it's called "faith" and not "fact". Can you just for a second try to see this from my point of view? Please? [/quote] I'm sorry to hear that you've left Mother Church. One can know a truth of Faith that has be revealed. One can also know a historical fact. I understand your point of view, and I am sorry but it is in error. It is in error because it is dipped in relativism, and modernism. The thought that we cannot know the truth clearly or say that another person is in great error when they are in great error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iheartjp2 Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 (edited) [quote name='KnightofChrist' date='25 May 2010 - 04:54 PM' timestamp='1274820895' post='2117508'] The article posted earlier goes into great detail of how the Charismatic movement began it's roots in Protestant heresy. http://credo.stormloader.com/Doctrine/pentecon.htm [/quote] I'd like to point out that this was written in 1973. It's been over 20 years. Since then, he's probably had a lot of explaining to do. Also, if you look at his page [url="http://credo.stormloader.com/jlindex.htm"]here[/url], you'll see that he and Apotheon should be joined at the hip. So honestly, I'm not surprised by the things he's said now. Not only is he an Eastern Christianity buff, he's a former Eastern Orthodox Christian. He speaks of people leaning on their emotions, well, I can't deny my curiosity as to the existence of some of his own emotions that are linked to this issue as well. Edited May 25, 2010 by iheartjp2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 [quote name='KnightofChrist' date='25 May 2010 - 05:01 PM' timestamp='1274821282' post='2117518'] If you or anyone else truly wants to understand why Pentecost can only happen once and never again, please listen to this... http://www.sensustraditionis.org/webaudio/Sermons/KC/Disk%201/Pentecost.mp3 [/quote] or this one http://www.sensustraditionis.org/webaudio/Sermons/Disk1/Pentecost.mp3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 [quote name='iheartjp2' date='25 May 2010 - 05:11 PM' timestamp='1274821865' post='2117531'] I'd like to point out that this was written in 1973. It's been over 20 years. Since then, he's probably had a lot of explaining to do. Also, if you look at his page [url="http://credo.stormloader.com/jlindex.htm"]here[/url], you'll see that he and Apotheon should be joined at the hip. So honestly, I'm not surprised by the things he's said now. Not only is he an Eastern Christianity buff, he's a former Eastern Orthodox Christian. He speaks of people leaning on their emotions, well, I can't deny my curiosity as to the existence of some of his own emotions that are linked to this issue as well. [/quote] Exactly it's only been 20 years since the 'birth' of the Charismatic Renewal. Its roots are not found in the roots in the birth of the Church but in the 1960's with an influx of Pentecostal heretical teaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 [quote name='iheartjp2' date='25 May 2010 - 03:11 PM' timestamp='1274821865' post='2117531'] I'd like to point out that this was written in 1973. It's been over 20 years. Since then, he's probably had a lot of explaining to do. Also, if you look at his page [url="http://credo.stormloader.com/jlindex.htm"]here[/url], you'll see that he and Apotheon should be joined at the hip. So honestly, I'm not surprised by the things he's said now. Not only is he an Eastern Christianity buff, he's also a former Protestant. He speaks of people leaning on their emotions, well, I can't deny my curiosity as to the existence of some of his own emotions that are linked to this issue as well (speaking only of James, not Apo). [/quote] I am afraid that Mr. Likoudis and I agree on very little when it comes to theology, but there is one exception . . . we both reject any form of Pentecostalism in the Catholic Church. P.S. - Mr. Likoudis is not a former Protestant; rather, he is a former Eastern Orthodox Christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 [quote name='Apotheoun' date='25 May 2010 - 04:16 PM' timestamp='1274822219' post='2117540'] I am afraid that Mr. Likoudis and I agree on very little when it comes to theology, but there is one exception . . . we both reject any form of Pentecostalism in the Catholic Church. P.S. - Mr. Likoudis is not a former Protestant; rather, he is a former Eastern Orthodox Christian. [/quote] He seems like a nice guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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