Tongues- Gift Of The Holy Spirit?

[Slappo]

[quote name='sacredheartandbloodofjesus' date='25 May 2010 - 11:44 AM' timestamp='1274813072' post='2117355']
This scripture is not even mentioning the Old Testament Prophets. Seems like your making things up to suit your beleif on the matter.
[/quote]

The New Testament reflects the Old.

Just because they were Old Testament Prophets does not mean it can be thrown out.

The Old Testament is still part of the Bible... The Old Testament actually sheds light on and helps interpret the New Testament.

[sacredheartandbloodofjesus]

[quote name='Slappo' date='25 May 2010 - 03:32 PM' timestamp='1274819526' post='2117471']
The New Testament reflects the Old.

Just because they were Old Testament Prophets does not mean it can be thrown out.

The Old Testament is still part of the Bible... The Old Testament actually sheds light on and helps interpret the New Testament.
[/quote]

It cannot be related to this scripture because St. Paul is speaking to the [b]faithful[/b] at Corinth, while the Prophets were speaking to [b]unbeleivers[/b]. Plus it says NO MAN heareth(or understandeth).

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='sacredheartandbloodofjesus' date='25 May 2010 - 04:31 PM' timestamp='1274819462' post='2117467']
To be able to tell if you or someone is is living an authentic life in the Holy Spirit, we must recognize the fruits of the Holy Spirit and what is contrary to a life in the Holy Spirit.

The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

But the fruit of the Spirit is [b]love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control[/b]. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.

Almost every one I meet who produces these fruits extraordinarily are part of or approve of the Charismatic Renewal. But on the other hand those I meet who are really against it usually seem to be lacking Joy, gentleness and kindness. from my personal observation it seems as if the holiest people I meet are Charismatic. And Im not really even into the Charismnatic movement nor do I pray in tongues, I just recognize holiness when I see or experience it.
[/quote]

The roots of the Charismatic Renewal is found in Protestant Pentecostal heresy. The roots of a tree are just as important as its fruit. If roots are poison, the fruit will be also poison.

[ThePenciledOne]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='25 May 2010 - 05:21 PM' timestamp='1274818904' post='2117449']
When it comes to spirits, there are but two types, Angelic and Demonic. Demonic spirits can appear to be good and feel good, but they bring confusion, disorder, and unreasoned actions or thoughts.
[/quote]

Yes and that is why there is discernment into these spirits are needed, though sadly most people forget about the need for discernment.


[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='25 May 2010 - 05:24 PM' timestamp='1274819040' post='2117450']
It was during the time of the Apostles. What exists now is not of the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit does not deal in disorder. The modern way of speaking in tongues is nonsense.
[/quote]

Of course you are an authority in which we can believe your judgment. And the way things are going, I think the world could use more of a New Pentecost for the Body here on Earth.

[Selah]

[quote]Yes and that is why there is discernment into these spirits are needed, though sadly most people forget about the need for discernment.[/quote]

[iheartjp2]

You took his quote out of its context. I have no idea what Pope Paul VI is talking about in this quote. He could be talking about anything from quasi-witchcraft to new-ageism to someone trying to imitate the experience of a true mystic. If he is talking about the charismatics in the Church, then he's right on the money. No one should seek the gifts of the spirit for their own personal gain, for some type of "spiritual enlightenment" or even for the sake of the gift itself. The gifts are given by the Spirit to build up not only the body of Christ, but to build ourselves up as Christians. When we pray in the Spirit, we edify ourselves, or more to the point, build a dwelling place for the Holy Spirit within ourselves.

Are there people who try to obtain or use the gifts of the spirit for gain? Of course. Satan wants to turn every good thing that God has given us into something that will destroy us. He leads people astray on every front, not just the ones that are most obvious to us. I honestly think that this type of person is whom Paul VI was referring to, not to the renewal as a whole. As I said before, even if you don't like the Charismatic renewal, it doesn't change the fact that the Church does. You'll find a lot of quotations condemning spiritual error. You won't, on the other hand, find any condemning the charismatic gifts or the Spirit that gives them. I would take caution to so swiftly claim "nonsense". If this is the Holy Spirit (and I believe it is), you very well may be speaking against Him. Now, I'm not referring to the unforgivable sin (which is different according to Church Tradition), but it's better to be cautious than to be prideful and hasty, which, I must say, you are being.

[iheartjp2]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='25 May 2010 - 04:36 PM' timestamp='1274819771' post='2117483']
The roots of the Charismatic Renewal is found in Protestant Pentecostal heresy. The roots of a tree are just as important as its fruit. If roots are poison, the fruit will be also poison.
[/quote]

Once again, that's not necessarily true. Look into the things I suggested to you. Look up Renewal Ministries. I'm sure someone can tell you the history of the Word of God community. Similarity to does not prove descent from anything. It doesn't prove the Charismatic renewal came from protestantism any more than having prayer beads proves that the rosary is originally an innovation of Muslims or that veneration of Mary is really just veneration of some mystery religion goddess dressed up differently.

[sacredheartandbloodofjesus]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='25 May 2010 - 03:36 PM' timestamp='1274819771' post='2117483']
The roots of the Charismatic Renewal is found in Protestant Pentecostal heresy. The roots of a tree are just as important as its fruit. If roots are poison, the fruit will be also poison.
[/quote]


You need to be Pope then to condemn this Heretical movement that the Church has mistakenly approved as Authentic!!!

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='ThePenciledOne' date='25 May 2010 - 04:36 PM' timestamp='1274819788' post='2117484']
Yes and that is why there is discernment into these spirits are needed, though sadly most people forget about the need for discernment.[/quote]

Such discernment requires an Church investigation. Like any other claim of supernatural events, such as miracles preformed by Saints, or visions of Mary, it can not be left up to the laity or a few members of the clergy present at the time. Unfortunately this is the case with the Charismatic movement. Before that movement supernatural events were rare now they claim to be an everyday occurrence, with many numerous individuals.

[quote name='ThePenciledOne' date='25 May 2010 - 04:36 PM' timestamp='1274819788' post='2117484']Of course you are an authority in which we can believe your judgment. And the way things are going, I think the world could use more of a New Pentecost for the Body here on Earth.
[/quote]

My words simply embraced those of Saint Augustine, and Pope Paul VI.

[ThePenciledOne]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='25 May 2010 - 05:36 PM' timestamp='1274819771' post='2117483']
The roots of the Charismatic Renewal is found in Protestant Pentecostal heresy. The roots of a tree are just as important as its fruit. If roots are poison, the fruit will be also poison.
[/quote]

So, then you can write of places such as FUS, and different Charismatic prayer communities across the globe as being fruit that is poisonous.

I am so glad, this is what you think of fellow Catholics that merely follow a different spirituality.

As stated from Monsignor Walsh, from his book I mentioned earlier, "Pentecostalism does not present a new doctrine, but merely stresses the belief that what happened at the First Pentecost is meant to happen to all Christians until the Lord returns." pg.10

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='iheartjp2' date='25 May 2010 - 04:43 PM' timestamp='1274820197' post='2117490']
Once again, that's not necessarily true. Look into the things I suggested to you. Look up Renewal Ministries. I'm sure someone can tell you the history of the Word of God community. Similarity to does not prove descent from anything. It doesn't prove the Charismatic renewal came from protestantism any more than having prayer beads proves that the rosary is originally an innovation of Muslims or that veneration of Mary is really just veneration of some mystery religion goddess dressed up differently.
[/quote]

It is very true a fact of historical truth. The Charismatic renewal is nothing more than Protestant Pentecostal heretical teaching.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='ThePenciledOne' date='25 May 2010 - 04:45 PM' timestamp='1274820339' post='2117495']
So, then you can write of places such as FUS, and different Charismatic prayer communities across the globe as being fruit that is poisonous.

I am so glad, this is what you think of fellow Catholics that merely follow a different spirituality.

As stated from Monsignor Walsh, from his book I mentioned earlier, "Pentecostalism does not present a new doctrine, but merely stresses the belief that what happened at the First Pentecost is meant to happen to all Christians until the Lord returns." pg.10
[/quote]

What happened at Pentecost happened only once, and will never happen again.

[Selah]

[quote]
What happened at Pentecost happened only once, and will never happen again. [/quote]

Your words are not infallible. Show us a document by a Pope claiming this and I might believe you.

[ThePenciledOne]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='25 May 2010 - 05:44 PM' timestamp='1274820272' post='2117492']
Such discernment requires an Church investigation. Like any other claim of supernatural events, such as miracles preformed by Saints, or visions of Mary, it can not be left up to the laity or a few members of the clergy present at the time. Unfortunately this is the case with the Charismatic movement. Before that movement supernatural events were rare now they claim to be an everyday occurrence, with many numerous individuals.
[/quote]

Not unlike when the Apostles moved through crowds and the masses were converted and spoke in tongues to one another. Are you saying that the common lay person are not allowed to have such great things happen to them? Or that they cannot experience the Holy Spirit, without a full out Vatican investigation? Sir, that is an extremely bigoted outlook.


[quote]

My words simply embraced those of Saint Augustine, and Pope Paul VI.
[/quote]

Just as my words were echoing John Paul II.

[iheartjp2]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='25 May 2010 - 04:46 PM' timestamp='1274820401' post='2117496']
It is very true a fact of historical truth. The Charismatic renewal is nothing more than Protestant Pentecostal heretical teaching.
[/quote]

Well, so be it, then. I've asked you to tell me exactly how this happened, but you seem to only be able to make a connection based on the fact that Protestants did it and now Catholics are, too. I won't say anymore; you've made up your mind.