Mikaele Posted May 24, 2010 Author Share Posted May 24, 2010 Don't think you can edit a post. I made a typo in the post above. My bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacredheartandbloodofjesus Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 (edited) 1Cor. Chapter 13 verses 1-2 If I speak with the tongues of men, [b][u][size="6"][color="#FF0000"]and of angels[/color][/size][/u][/b], and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And if I should have prophecy and should know all mysteries, and all knowledge, and if I should have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. 1Cor. Ch.14:1-2 Follow after charity, [b]be zealous for spiritual gifts[/b]; but rather that you may prophesy. 2 For [b][color="#0000FF"]he that speaketh in a tongue, speaketh not unto men, but unto God[/color][/b]: for no man heareth. Yet [color="#9932CC"]by the Spirit he speaketh mysteries[/color]. Anyone confused about why the Church recognizes the Charismatic movement as a legitimate movement of The Holy Spirit needs to read 1Corinthians chapters 13 and 14 with an open mind. Edited May 25, 2010 by sacredheartandbloodofjesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertwoman Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 Yes I believe that it is a gift of the Holy Spirit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 (edited) [quote name='sacredheartandbloodofjesus' date='24 May 2010 - 07:08 PM' timestamp='1274746117' post='2116821'] 1Cor. Chapter 13 verses 1-2 If I speak with the tongues of men, [b][u][size="6"][color="#FF0000"]and of angels[/color][/size][/u][/b], and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And if I should have prophecy and should know all mysteries, and all knowledge, and if I should have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. [/quote] It sounds to me like St. Paul is just saying "if I am a great public speaker" or "if I preach the faith eloquently." Edited May 25, 2010 by Resurrexi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 It is important to remember that the Greek word ἀγγέλων (messenger) does not always refer to spiritual beings (e.g., the principalities, powers, etc.), but also to human beings who deliver a divine message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 [quote name='Resurrexi' date='24 May 2010 - 06:11 PM' timestamp='1274746279' post='2116823'] It sounds to me like St. Paul is just saying "if I am a great public speaker" or "if I preach the faith eloquently." [/quote] Yes, I do not believe that he is referring to some kind of "seraphic" or "cherubic" language, but is referring instead to speaking the truth in the same way that the Fathers assembled in a council, or the saints in their spiritual teachings, can be God-inspired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 When I consider the modern practices of "speaking in tongues" and being "slain in the Spirit", I begin to wonder if Karl Marx may have been onto something when he said, "Religion is the opium of the people." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePenciledOne Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 (edited) Then you will have to excuse King David when he danced before the Lord. And Marx may have been onto something because, there is a grain of truth in that statement, because I think faith should intoxicate us every once in while, at least in my own opinion. Edited May 25, 2010 by ThePenciledOne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sternhauser Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 [quote name='ThePenciledOne' date='24 May 2010 - 03:01 PM' timestamp='1274731299' post='2116658'] I have been slain in the spirit before, and for me it was during a empowerment night with my household, The Fishers of Men. My household brothers prayed over me and in that time I was slowly pulled away into a relaxed state in which I could not move nor did I have a wish too. My ears could hear things going on as other household brothers were prayed over others, yet my mind was elsewhere and I had an incredibly peace on and within me, as I had a small conversation with God. Once the presence of the Lord faded or at least lessened I was able to get up, though my limbs still felt heavy and then I returned to praying over my brothers. It is a hard thing to grasp to some degree, since some people just hold reservations upon it and are skeptical, but that is because it is a deeply personal experience. [/quote] That sounds precisely like the psychological and physiological effect of being hypnotized. I'm not saying you were hypnotized secretly. I'm saying the situation is nearly the same. ~Sternhauser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePenciledOne Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 If you turn to 1 Cor. 12: 7-11 "To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. To one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. All these are inspired by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills." So, given that it more or less outlines the Spiritual Gifts, along with some normally attributed to the Charismatic movement here, I would not throw prayer tongues out with the bath water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePenciledOne Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 [quote name='Sternhauser' date='24 May 2010 - 11:07 PM' timestamp='1274753261' post='2116912'] That sounds precisely like the psychological and physiological effect of being hypnotized. I'm not saying you were hypnotized secretly. I'm saying the situation is nearly the same. ~Sternhauser [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 " In the earliest times, 'the Holy Ghost fell upon them that believed: and they spake with tongues' which they had not learned, 'as the Spirit gave them utterance.' These were signs adapted to the time for there behooved to be that betokening of the Spirit in all tongues over the whole earth. That thing was done for a betokening and it passed away." Saint Augustine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 [quote name='ThePenciledOne' date='24 May 2010 - 08:48 PM' timestamp='1274752138' post='2116898'] And Marx may have been onto something because, there is a grain of truth in that statement, because I think faith should intoxicate us every once in while, at least in my own opinion. [/quote] My God is the God Who can be known through natural reason; My God is not Bacchus, whom the pagans knew in their drunkenness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePenciledOne Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 [quote name='Resurrexi' date='24 May 2010 - 11:22 PM' timestamp='1274754127' post='2116922'] My God is the God Who can be known through natural reason; My God is not Bacchus, whom the pagans knew in their drunkenness. [/quote] So, we are not allowed to feel for God Love? As in the emotion as well as Loving Him through reason etc.? Emotion is a part of being human, and the opium that Marx mentions and the intoxication I attribute to that, is the emotional high some of us receive from say prayer or worship. Sorry, I was not clearer before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 Rolling round on the floor and speaking gibba jabba is not something that is within reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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