Investiture

[DameAgnes]

You can see the a slide show of the investiture of Sr. Cora of the Immaculate Heart and St. Teresa of St. Augustine. March 17, 2010

In this community, novices do not receive the habit until they have been accepted for their first profession, about the last four months of their novitiate.

So, they will make their profession very soon. They look very happy.

More recent events here: http://www.carmelitesistersocd.com/events/recentevents.asp

[OnlySunshine]

Wow! What beautiful pictures. Does anyone know why they don't clothe the novices in the habit on the day their novitiate starts? They are the only order I know that practices this.

Their formation is very long!

Edited May 24, 2010 by MaterMisericordiae

[AccountDeleted]

Yes, that is unusual not to receive the habit at commencement of the novitiate. I can't find any definition of the start of the Novitiate in canon law but I did find this reference from the Catholic Encyclopedia (underlining mine)...


[i]For all [/i][url="../cathen/12748b.htm"][i]religious[/i][/url][i] orders, the [/i][url="../cathen/15030c.htm"][i]Council of Trent[/i][/url][i] prescribes a full year in the novitiate, under penalty of nullity of profession. In those orders which have a distinctive habit, [u]the novitiate commences with the assumption of the habit[/u]; in those which have no habit, it commences from the time when the novice is received into the house lawfully assigned for the purpose by competent authority[/i].


I guess today that the taking of the habit is up to each community's constitutions. I am glad that the Discalced Carmelites still use the reception of the holy habit as the beginning of the Novitiate - it feels good to me.

[TeresaBenedicta]

I think the Servants of the Lord sometimes start novitiate before the reception of the habit... one of my friends entered there last year and if I remember correctly, she became a novice and then about a month or two later received the habit.

[laetitia crucis]

[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' date='23 May 2010 - 11:56 PM' timestamp='1274673367' post='2116378']
I think the Servants of the Lord sometimes start novitiate before the reception of the habit... one of my friends entered there last year and if I remember correctly, she became a novice and then about a month or two later received the habit.
[/quote]

This is true. Usually one would become a novice in September (though some have become novices as early as June) and receive the habit in December. However, if for one reason or another someone begins their canonical novitiate year later, then the investiture may be pushed back a bit.

Edit: Also, some may choose to wait longer before receiving the habit -- for better discernment.

Edited May 24, 2010 by laetitia crucis

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

What lovely pictures--thank-you for going to the trouble of posting them twice.

I have to say that, with the exception of 3 or 4 distinctive habits of smaller orders, the Dominican habit is the one that consistently looks the best. It is very graceful and I love the long collar (or is it a short cape?)

I know nothing about the Pink Sisters, but for day-to-day living I like their habit best. The pink is so cheerful, it would make me happy to put on the habit every day. Breakfast (far from my best time of day) would be much easier to handle looking around at the cheerful pink habits. (Please don't disillusion me by telling me the Pink Sisters aren't cheerful as well, that they are very dour--you'd destroy my fantasies!! LOL)

Someday, can we have a thread that talks about the real differences between the Poor Clares, Dominicans, Benedictine Sisters, Carmelites, Pink Sisters, Passionists, etc.? I'm sure that the differences are obvious to those of you who have been through discernment, but to a person on the outside, the differences seem subtle (although I'm sure they really aren't). About the only two Orders that have started to become distince to me are the Passionists and the Carmelites. But, I'm sure, for example, that there are definite differenences between the Benedictine Sisters and the Domican Sisters--I just don't know what they are.

That's one reason I keep focusing on the habit (besides the fact that I'm fascinated by habits), I'm starting to be able to tell the differences between the habits of different Orders, but not the life that the habit represents. I feel very shallow sometimes.

However, explaining the differences without writing an essay or a book could be difficult, so I thought I'd give you time to think about it before I start a thread asking the question.

Edited May 24, 2010 by IgnatiusofLoyola

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='laetitia crucis' date='24 May 2010 - 02:47 PM' timestamp='1274676435' post='2116418']
This is true. Usually one would become a novice in September (though some have become novices as early as June) and receive the habit in December. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif[/img] However, if for one reason or another someone begins their canonical novitiate year later, then the investiture may be pushed back a bit.

Edit: Also, some may choose to wait longer before receiving the habit -- for better discernment.
[/quote]


I'm not sure I really understand that last bit because isn't that what the postulancy is for - discernment? One doesn't actually become a member of the community until the Novitiate begins, and that seems like a good reason to receive the habit then. There are no vows taken at reception of the habit, but it is the change from discerner, to a member of the community (with no voice of course). The postulancy can usually be extended as can the novitiate, if the person needs more time before taking vows.

I only have my own limited experience to go on, but for me, the change from postulant to novice was when I received the habit, and the community's expectations of me changed as well, because I was given more responsibilities and more intensive study.

In these communities that don't receive the habit as a novice, what is it that marks the transition from postulant to novice in their communities? Or isn't there anything?

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='24 May 2010 - 03:13 PM' timestamp='1274677983' post='2116428']
What lovely pictures--thank-you for going to the trouble of posting them twice.

I have to say that, with the exception of 3 or 4 distinctive habits of smaller orders, the Dominican habit is the one that consistently looks the best. It is very graceful and I love the long collar (or is it a short cape?)

I know nothing about the Pink Sisters, but for day-to-day living I like their habit best. The pink is so cheerful, it would make me happy to put on the habit every day. Breakfast (far from my best time of day) would be much easier to handle looking around at the cheerful pink habits. (Please don't disillusion me by telling me the Pink Sisters aren't cheerful as well, that they are very dour--you'd destroy my fantasies!! LOL)

Someday, can we have a thread that talks about the real differences between the Poor Clares, Dominicans, Benedictine Sisters, Carmelites, Pink Sisters, Passionists, etc.? I'm sure that the differences are obvious to those of you who have been through discernment, but to a person on the outside, the differences seem subtle (although I'm sure they really aren't). About the only two Orders that have started to become distince to me are the Passionists and the Carmelites. But, I'm sure, for example, that there are definite differenences between the Benedictine Sisters and the Domican Sisters--I just don't know what they are.

That's one reason I keep focusing on the habit (besides the fact that I'm fascinated by habits), I'm starting to be able to tell the differences between the habits of different Orders, but not the life that the habit represents. I feel very shallow sometimes.

However, explaining the differences without writing an essay or a book could be difficult, so I thought I'd give you time to think about it before I start a thread asking the question.
[/quote]

This is definitely a good idea so why don't you start a new thread on it?

My last flatmate was an ex-nun from a Dominican community here in Australia and she couldn't imagine living as a Carmelite! We used to laugh at how different we were in spirituality and outlook.

I am sure there have been similar threads in the past, but perhaps there are new posters now who could contribute as well.

[JTheresa]

There is one website that infound that does a really good job of summarizing the different spiritualities.
It's; www.religious-vocation.com
there's a link towards the top that says "discerning orders". It really helped me a lot in my discernment. starting a thread to discuss the similarities and differences sounds like a good idea. It's a little easier to hear it explained from experience than from a website, but it's definitely a start.

[vee]

[quote name='nunsense' date='23 May 2010 - 10:21 PM' timestamp='1274671279' post='2116330']



I guess today that the taking of the habit is up to each community's constitutions. I am glad that the Discalced Carmelites still use the reception of the holy habit as the beginning of the Novitiate - it feels good to me.
[/quote]

don't take this the wrong way but I pray you stay in that novice habit long enough this time to get the black veil!

[DameAgnes]

[quote name='nunsense' date='24 May 2010 - 01:14 AM' timestamp='1274678094' post='2116430']
In these communities that don't receive the habit as a novice, what is it that marks the transition from postulant to novice in their communities? Or isn't there anything?[/quote]

For this community of Carmelites, when the postulant is accepted into the novitiate, she receives a short white veil (worn with the postulant uniform) and her name-in-religion.

This order was founded in Mexico and I believe the holding off of giving the habit is a nod to their history, when it was delayed for the safety of the sister, but I am not completely certain about that. I DO know, though, that because their formation is rather a long (and apparently thorough) one, once young women enter the novitiate, they have something like a 94% retention rate to vows.

They're not the only order I know of who delays receipt of the habit, although I cannot just at this second recall what other order does that. I know that the Franciscan Sisters of Peoria do not put their novices in their habit, but dress them in a sort of transitional one, with an awful Peter Pan collar (no grown woman should ever wear a Peter Pan collar, IMHO) and then gets the proper habit along with her dark veil at first vows...but there is another that specifically waits, like these Carmelites do. If I remember who they are, I will post it.

[DameAgnes]

[quote name='vee8' date='24 May 2010 - 09:40 AM' timestamp='1274708437' post='2116492']
don't take this the wrong way but I pray you stay in that novice habit long enough this time to get the black veil!
[/quote]

Me too, Annie!

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='vee8' date='24 May 2010 - 11:40 PM' timestamp='1274708437' post='2116492']
don't take this the wrong way but I pray you stay in that novice habit long enough this time to get the black veil! [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif[/img] [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/pray.gif[/img]
[/quote]


[quote name='DameAgnes' date='25 May 2010 - 01:24 AM' timestamp='1274714681' post='2116533']
Me too, Annie!
[/quote]


Oh no, I am so offended and so hurt by you all - how can you be so cruel to me??? [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/weep.gif[/img]

[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/hijack.gif[/img]

Actually, I would be saying 'me too' except for the fact that I am not entering as a postulant this time, I am simply going for a live-in visit for three months so I can't stay until I get the black veil!

I fullly acknowledge that my mistake was in leaving the first Carmel (two months after my clothing) but God knows why I did this and so do I now - it just took a little while to understand. The second one was beyond my control but out of charity for that community, I cannot explain that reason to anyone. As for the last one, I was happier and more content than I have ever been and would never have left; I wanted to be buried in their cemetery (and used to visit there all the time to pray with those sisters who had gone to God) but I was asked to leave because the Prioress felt I was 'too individual in my spirituality' (to this day I don't really know what she means), so I had no say in the matter and tried to see it as God's will (after I got over the 'feeling rejected by God' phase). I still love all these Carmels and stay in touch with them.

This community and I are going slowly because they know what I have been through before and they want to ensure the best possible outcome for all concerned, myself and the community. They are kind and charitable towards both me and my former Carmels. They are not where I thought I would end up, and I have had to let go of a lot of my preconceived ideas and prejudices, but this must be a good thing - and they are a message from God for me at this time, so we will see what happens.

I need lots of prayers to help me determine just what God's will is for me. The next three months will be like a retreat and I am very grateful to the community (who have considered me despite my being over their age limit) and to God for His mercy in allowing me to do this at this time. Whatever His will is, I will always give thanks for the many opportunities I have had to live the life of a Carmelite nun.

The variety of experiences I have had in each Carmel, and with the hermits and other active communities, has been amazing, and I am so impressed and the love and commitment of anyone who attempts to live this life for God. I am also fascinated by just how different each Carmel has been, despite their common charism and spirituality, and original history. Five hundred years certainly leaves room for differences.

Thanks to all of you for you love and support over the past three years. I leave very early tomorrow morning and will be in the outside flat for about a week before entering the enclosure. I don't have a return flight booked yet but we are looking at three months, so probably late August/early September. I will post an update after I get back. Praise God in all things and may He bless you all for your kindness.

[laetitia crucis]

You have my prayers, nunsense!



May God bless you abundantly during your live-in!

[Cherie]

[quote name='nunsense' date='24 May 2010 - 01:14 AM' timestamp='1274678094' post='2116430']
I'm not sure I really understand that last bit because isn't that what the postulancy is for - discernment? One doesn't actually become a member of the community until the Novitiate begins, and that seems like a good reason to receive the habit then. There are no vows taken at reception of the habit, but it is the change from discerner, to a member of the community (with no voice of course). The postulancy can usually be extended as can the novitiate, if the person needs more time before taking vows.
[/quote]

For me personally, I much prefer the reception of the habit at the beginning of the novitiate!

But I think, perhaps, the communities which delay it are trying to make a silent statement on the gravity of the religious habit. The habit, as I'm sure all of you know, is much, much more than just the clothing of a religious, so I think maybe they delay it in order to convey a more tangible "sacredness" to the habit.

BUT... in my opinion, I'd much rather receive the habit when I receive my religious name!

Speaking of that, another interesting thing I don't see in many communities is something I noticed with the Children of Mary (the new, semi-contemplative Sisters in Columbus, OH) is that they receive their religious name with their First Profession, not with their reception of the habit (or start of novitiate) as most religious communities I've known do. I wonder why?