Discernment

[Bennn]

Hey pholks. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/mellow.gif[/img]

I am currently discerning whether I am called to marry someone, or whether I should strive for the sacred Priesthood. I have a spiritual father who is guiding me but I would like some opinions from you guys, if you don't mind. I am only 20 years old so I do not expect to know Gods will for me exactly any time soon. I believe vocations have to grow. What confuses me is the fact that there are aspects of my life that would indicate a calling to Marriage, but also to the Priesthood.

For example, I have a deep desire to devote myself completely to God and His Kingdom, a profound attraction to the Sacraments and somehow being a Priest almost felt 'natural' to me since I radically converted.

On the other hand, I grew up with an aversion towards Marriage, which even became a hidden hatred towards it during the years of my youth. I had always been extremely shy as a kid, which caused me to suffer alot from solitude. I had almost no friends, let alone female friends and because of that I developed a deep bitterness towards relationships. (I am still trying to overcome this) From my 14th to my 16th I had been destroying my mind and soul with pornography and I am still disgusted when I remember it. When I turned from my lukewarm Catholic faith (grew up in a modernistic parish and my knowledge back then could be called agnosticism) to non-denominational Christianity, which came hand in hand with a contempt for sexuality. Mostly due to my past, negative experiences with it.

When I converted from non-denominationalism to true Catholicism, this hidden hatred of human sexuality backfired against me and manifested itself in hating my body, damaging it with too much fasting and falling into the old heresy of anathemising the body and glorifying the soul, kind of like the Manicheans did. To pursue this heterodox goal of wanting to live as if I was 'pure spirit', I fled into a religious congregation for four months, wanting to become a monk without truly discerning whether it was really Gods will. I tried to twist the writings and lives of Saints and desert Fathers to justify my hatred towards my body. So around Christmas time, last year, I couldn't keep it up any more and Christ was making me so anxious in the monastery that I couldn't stay any longer.

In the time I have been home until now I have been told that these things indicate that I have a calling to Marriage, so that I may sanctify my scarred perception of sexuality and the human body in general. People have shown me extracts of JPII's Theology of the Body, through which I have come to realise that I was a heretic for looking at sexuality as something low and beastly. I have come to see that sexuality is a sacred thing within a Marriage, and that deep inside I have always desired to share my life with someone in this Sacrament. I was told on another forum that my hurtful past seems to indicate a calling to Matrimony.

However, random people see a Priest in me. And I am also very drawn to it. Could it be that I am therefore not called to Marriage, but simply to heal my mutilated perception of it before I can strive for the Priesthood? I desire Marriage, but I feel that I would disappoint Jesus if I did that.

A year ago, I have also been treated for my OCD and religious scrupulocity. Could these worries have something to do with my disorder as well?

Also, could my X-ald and Addison's Disease be impediments to the sacred vocation of the Priesthood?

By the way, I do realise that I am pretty messed up. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/dry.gif[/img]

Thank you and God bless,
Ben

[regina_coeli]

Ben-- God bless you and keep you. One of the most frequent pieces of advice given here is to find a spiritual adviser to guide you. Take the time to listen and pray, and you will find the best path to heaven.

[laetitia crucis]

Hi Ben!

I recently saw this video on priestly vs. marriage discernment and thought perhaps it could be helpful:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_hNNlQywWc[/media]

The priest and seminarians in this video say a lot of what I wanted to say, but they say it MUCH better than I could.

Please be assured of my prayers.

[Mary Veronica]

[quote name='Bennn' date='21 May 2010 - 06:51 PM' timestamp='1274482277' post='2114888']
Hey pholks. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/mellow.gif[/img]

I am currently discerning whether I am called to marry someone, or whether I should strive for the sacred Priesthood. I have a spiritual father who is guiding me but I would like some opinions from you guys, if you don't mind. I am only 20 years old so I do not expect to know Gods will for me exactly any time soon. I believe vocations have to grow. What confuses me is the fact that there are aspects of my life that would indicate a calling to Marriage, but also to the Priesthood.

For example, I have a deep desire to devote myself completely to God and His Kingdom, a profound attraction to the Sacraments and somehow being a Priest almost felt 'natural' to me since I radically converted.

On the other hand, I grew up with an aversion towards Marriage, which even became a hidden hatred towards it during the years of my youth. I had always been extremely shy as a kid, which caused me to suffer alot from solitude. I had almost no friends, let alone female friends and because of that I developed a deep bitterness towards relationships. (I am still trying to overcome this) From my 14th to my 16th I had been destroying my mind and soul with pornography and I am still disgusted when I remember it. When I turned from my lukewarm Catholic faith (grew up in a modernistic parish and my knowledge back then could be called agnosticism) to non-denominational Christianity, which came hand in hand with a contempt for sexuality. Mostly due to my past, negative experiences with it.

When I converted from non-denominationalism to true Catholicism, this hidden hatred of human sexuality backfired against me and manifested itself in hating my body, damaging it with too much fasting and falling into the old heresy of anathemising the body and glorifying the soul, kind of like the Manicheans did. To pursue this heterodox goal of wanting to live as if I was 'pure spirit', I fled into a religious congregation for four months, wanting to become a monk without truly discerning whether it was really Gods will. I tried to twist the writings and lives of Saints and desert Fathers to justify my hatred towards my body. So around Christmas time, last year, I couldn't keep it up any more and Christ was making me so anxious in the monastery that I couldn't stay any longer.

In the time I have been home until now I have been told that these things indicate that I have a calling to Marriage, so that I may sanctify my scarred perception of sexuality and the human body in general. People have shown me extracts of JPII's Theology of the Body, through which I have come to realise that I was a heretic for looking at sexuality as something low and beastly. I have come to see that sexuality is a sacred thing within a Marriage, and that deep inside I have always desired to share my life with someone in this Sacrament. I was told on another forum that my hurtful past seems to indicate a calling to Matrimony.

However, random people see a Priest in me. And I am also very drawn to it. Could it be that I am therefore not called to Marriage, but simply to heal my mutilated perception of it before I can strive for the Priesthood? I desire Marriage, but I feel that I would disappoint Jesus if I did that.

A year ago, I have also been treated for my OCD and religious scrupulocity. Could these worries have something to do with my disorder as well?

Also, could my X-ald and Addison's Disease be impediments to the sacred vocation of the Priesthood?

By the way, I do realise that I am pretty messed up. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/dry.gif[/img]

Thank you and God bless,
Ben
[/quote]

I think taking up a True Devotion to Mary (by St. Louis de Montfort) will help destroy all the scruples, lead you to all your desires without disappointing anyone (especially yourself), and will reveal your vocation path in no time to you (since Mary's highest vocation is to lead everyone to Jesus).

whether the Priesthood or Marriage, Jesus will be glorified in your soul no matter what, if you let Mary guide you and love you as she has always desired for every soul that desires to love Jesus...

Although you might find it tempting to think the Priesthood is a more honorable calling than getting married for the sake of your past and countless weaknesses, or just because of your personal being etc. Mother Mary understands how to make anything dishonorable HONORABLE. Her very nature is to be a Mother, Her love is more true and perfect and more kind and affectionate than all the most affectionate mothers that could be found in the world combined. Her love is so true that it purifies a soul, she won't allow it to be tempted, defiled, or put to shame. But even if the soul should fall into impurity, the love of Our Mother is even greater and more relentless than temptation and sin, her love makes one hunger to repent and to lovingly make amends. In other words, usually when we commit a sin, we are afraid to go to confession again and again, we are ashamed to admit how perverse we are, and so we become afraid of being loved and even of desiring it. but when we come to embrace the Love of Mary, which is the most beautiful and incomparable and Highest love (simply because God, Himself, desired it), we find ourselves most eager to go to confession again and again, most quick to admit our unworthiness, and most ready and happy to desire and receive love. The greatest example of the pure love that St. Louis de Montfort speaks of, can be undoubtedly found in babies and infants (they have all the nourishment and affection, and yet aren't afraid to desire more, they are free to love and receive love--the only tragedy is if there's no parent).

That's why St. Louis says that it's necessary to have both a Mother and a Father in Heaven, it is our salvation to be Children of God, not gods ourselves doing what we please and taking what's not ours. The more we take things "without need of GOD", the more we lose sight of God's true beauty as our Father and our true beauty as His Children. Mary is the only one who knows the innermost secrets and beauty of GOD's Heart which no beauty or pleasure in the world can measure up to. It is only God's Love that is redeeming and eternal. True Love can be found perfectly in all vocations: priesthood, religious life, family life, single life, etc. It's not the level of pleasure caused by "love" (if it is love) that matters, but rather the SOURCE (Jesus) of where that love comes from that matters. from there, we don't need to question whether it's true or lasting, deceiving or unfaithful, a fantasy or expression, a sin or an unavoidable habit. Again, Mother Mary, will destroy any false love in us, whether we like it or not, whether we suffer too much or rejoice greatly, if we stubbornly or lovingly keep her near, she is forced and can't resist to form JESUS in us (And Jesus loves everyone purely and truly). when we persevere, it will become in the end their greatest joy and our greatest joy.

I encourage this devotion very much, since it has saved me, but it is up to you to choose what inspirations inside you to follow. You are in my prayers, In Jesus and Mary!Truly, if you keep Mary close to you, you will make a great priest or a great husband, either way, the Church will be very fortunate to have you or your wife and children will be fortunate to have you. Many Blessings to you in your future vocation, whatever it may be!

[CatherineM]

I hang out with seminarians. Something I've seen in them is a desire to pursue their vocation without having experienced lightning or thunder with the voice of God telling them what to do. I have never minded following God's will, but I just wish he'd let me know what his will actually is.

I agree with the observation that the best spouses have often discerned a religious vocation. I guess because marriage is chosen as a vocation rather than just fallen into.

You're young, you have lots of time. You certainly don't have to make a final decision today. Since you have had some mental health issues, you should focus on recovery from them first. Most vocation directors would require that anyway. Get your preliminary studies in, so that you have options once God makes himself clearer to you.

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='laetitia crucis' date='21 May 2010 - 08:37 PM' timestamp='1274492224' post='2115009']
Hi Ben! [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/bye.gif[/img]

I recently saw this video on priestly vs. marriage discernment and thought perhaps it could be helpful:

[media][url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_hNNlQywWc"]http://www.youtube.c...h?v=3_hNNlQywWc[/url][/media]

The priest and seminarians in this video say a lot of what I wanted to say, but they say it MUCH better than I could. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif[/img]

Please be assured of my prayers. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/signofcross.gif[/img]
[/quote]

I thought that video explained very well what the seminary is, and why Catholic priests choose to remain celibate. Thanks for posting it. I found it helpful, even though I am not considering the priesthood (even the Anglican priesthood. LOL)

I don't know what advice to give you Bennn, except that you are young and don't need to make a decision now or "know for sure" immediately. I remember when I was 20--I wanted to know what was going to happen NOW. My life has turned out nothing like I expected (except that I have cats--they are a constant!). I wish that when I was 20 I hadn't spent so much time worrying about the future, but living in the present.

It must be hard to be getting such conflicting advice--but in the end, it is your (and God's) decision. My advice (based on having no facts, so take it for what it's worth) is to attend university if possible, or do whatever job you were doing, but continue to pray and do as much reading as possible.

By coincidence, the "almost Saint" I've decided to adopt, the Blessed Pauline, who lives across the street from me in the form of about 50 religious Sisters, had a vision from God where she asked him to remove her over-scrupulousness--and God did that. The Blessed Pauline was German (but actually spent some time in Belgium), so I expect she had a very "German" personality, with all the good and bad that goes with that. (I'm sure you know more Germans than I do, but like many people in the U.S., some of my great-grandparents were German, and that personality continues through generations). Sorry, I don't know much about the Blessed Pauline--I'm going to have to find out more. I'm sure the Sisters across the street would be thrilled to give me any information I wanted.

I mention the Blessed Pauline only because scrupulousness was an issue for her, too, and she was able to overcome it, with God's help.

Another thing I wonder (but obviously don't know for sure) is for you to figure out if the best thing for you is continuing to live at home. (If I'm wrong, and you don't live with your parents, ignore the next paragraph.) I realize you have health problems, so this may be difficult. But often, when people have "issues," at least some of it is due to the influence of their home life. (I grew up in a very dysfunctional family, and perhaps not surprisingly, all three of us children moved out of the house to go to university at 18, and never lived with our parents again, except for visits.) Leaving home can, in some cases, help a person figure out what is "truly them" and what is the influence of their parents. And, if some of your "issues" are due to your family, sometimes it's better to be away. I know I'm really "shooting in the dark" here, and what I'm saying may be totally wrong and out of line.

I do hope you are regularly seeing a therapist, not simply a "spiritual advisor," because many people who are outstanding spiritual advisors don't necessarily have the training and experience to deal with psychological issues. Ideally, you would see both.

BTW--I see no shame in seeing a psychologist or psychiatrist. I see a psychiatrist every week, and he helps remind me what is "reality" and helps me to deal with the very real lifestyle issues that go along with having a chronic disease. If nothing else, he reminds me that I am very sane, but that living with chronic disease can bring on psychological issues. Unlike someone with a disease that will "go away" eventually, for those of us with chronic problems, our health is part of our "reality," and just like the disease is ongoing, sometimes the help has to be ongoing (unlike the "fad" in the U.S. for a "quick cure" in 6 sessions). I'm not expecting to be in therapy for the rest of my life, but I still have work to do on in facing "my reality" and to stop feeling useless with nothing to give the world.

When I feel totally useless, I think of the little black cat that is almost always sitting on my right arm when I'm at the computer. She has an autoimmune disease that my vet and I have managed to keep under control for more than three years now. Her owners before me were going to put her to sleep because they had a stupid vet, and they didn't want the hassle of dealing with an animal with a chronic disease. She is a wonderful cat, and my life is richer for knowing her.

As usual, I'm rambling and getting off topic. We're all telling you to wait and be patient, but I KNOW how hard that is. Hang in there!

Edited May 22, 2010 by IgnatiusofLoyola

[Gregorius]

Blessed be God, another Male Discerner! I thought I was alone, and so a bit uncomfortable in posting here.

My advice is this, that we should first seek to fulfill our primary vocation, Holiness! God in time will reveal what we are to do to serve Him, but if we are distracted by barely keeping out of the clutches of mortal sin, we can never listen to what God has to say.

So in both of our cases, while in each of our current states in life, we ask God not only for what our vocation is, but first ask holiness. And God will lead the way. I don't know much about how your situation applies to discernment, but for me, I need discipline to be a good student before I can devote myself to seminary or even college.

I would recommend getting this new book, entitled [url="http://www.vianneyvocations.com/tosaveathousandsouls"]To Save a Thousand Souls[/url] and speak about the topics therein with your spiritual director. That is, assuming your spiritual director does not disapprove of your thoughts of seminary and diocesan/religious priesthood.

And finally, pray for me, as I will for you.

[Bennn]

Thank you for the replies, everyone. Each one of them is helpful in their own particular way.

I do realise that I have to be patient. Like I said, I do not expect anyone here to give me a direct [i]'says the Lord God of Israël'[/i] answer. But I do appreciate your opinions and it helps me to gain deeper understanding.

I spoke to my spiritual director today and he is also very doubtful. He did tell me that this deep inner panic and restlessness when I think of the Priesthood is not normal. The anxiety doesn't seem to be superficial enough for it to be simply a trick of the devil.

In Namen (Belgium) there is a seminary of the FSSP, and I think I will see if they can help me with discerning.

Gregorius, I'll pray for you as well!

Pax Domini,
Ben

[vee]

[quote name='Bennn' date='22 May 2010 - 09:29 AM' timestamp='1274538587' post='2115334']


I spoke to my spiritual director today and he is also very doubtful. He did tell me that this deep inner panic and restlessness when I think of the Priesthood is not normal. The anxiety doesn't seem to be superficial enough for it to be simply a trick of the devil.

In Namen (Belgium) there is a seminary of the FSSP, and I think I will see if they can help me with discerning.

Gregorius, I'll pray for you as well!

Pax Domini,
Ben
[/quote]

if you aren't already familiar with St Ignatius of Loyola I'd suggest reading what he has to say about discernment of spirits, consolation and desolation, and his process of election. These things were incredibly helpful, to me at least, so I always hope others may benefit from him as well. Prayers for you too.

[LouisvilleFan]

I'm also discerning, more specifically for diocesan priesthood, but having not even entered seminary yet, marriage is far from "eliminated" as a possibility. To discern priesthood in a healthy and fulfilling way, you need come to a place where you consider marriage to be a realistic possibility. Like you, I struggled to get there, but if you want it and pray for it, the Holy Spirit will be your help.

[quote name='Bennn' date='21 May 2010 - 07:51 PM' timestamp='1274482277' post='2114888']
In the time I have been home until now I have been told that these things indicate that I have a calling to Marriage, so that I may sanctify my scarred perception of sexuality and the human body in general. People have shown me extracts of JPII's Theology of the Body, through which I have come to realise that I was a heretic for looking at sexuality as something low and beastly. I have come to see that sexuality is a sacred thing within a Marriage, and that deep inside I have always desired to share my life with someone in this Sacrament. I was told on another forum that my hurtful past seems to indicate a calling to Matrimony.

However, random people see a Priest in me. And I am also very drawn to it. Could it be that I am therefore not called to Marriage, but simply to heal my mutilated perception of it before I can strive for the Priesthood? I desire Marriage, but I feel that I would disappoint Jesus if I did that.[/quote]

As baptized Christians, we share a vocation to holiness. For anyone who hurt by unhealthy sexual experiences or perceptions, growing in holiness demands healing those wounds. You can do that while praying and discerning about the marriage/priesthood question, but you won't be truly free to enjoy a healthy and fruitful experience in formal discernment (either in engagement or seminary) without first being healed.

I'm currently reading "The Priest is Not His Own" by Archbishop Fulton Sheen. The chapters are holiness and the Holy Spirit's relationship with priests are especially convicting... I definitely recommend it!

That said, it's a good sign that you desire marriage. This could be a step on the way to finding a wife or toward the priesthood. Lacking a desire for marriage would be a problem if you had either destination in mind.

[quote name='Bennn' date='21 May 2010 - 07:51 PM' timestamp='1274482277' post='2114888']
A year ago, I have also been treated for my OCD and religious scrupulocity. Could these worries have something to do with my disorder as well?

Also, could my X-ald and Addison's Disease be impediments to the sacred vocation of the Priesthood?[/quote]

Considering [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Addison%27s_Disease#Famous_addisonians"]other people[/url] who had Addison's Disease, I don't see why it would be an issue. Not sure what you mean by X-ald though.

In Christ,
Jason

[Thomist-in-Training]

I think Mary Veronica's suggestion is GREAT, to make the Consecration to Mary (aka True Devotion, in St Louis' form, or there is also the method of St. Maximilian Kolbe). It has helped me so much both in terms of discernment and spiritually in general. I also recommended it to one of my friends who was having the very same struggle as you (well, I mean btw priesthood and marriage, not in EVERY way you mentioned, that would be pretty unlikely!)

Here is an [url="http://fisheaters.com/totalconsecration.html"]explanation[/url]with both forms.

[MissyP89]

There is no harm in looking into seminary, should your spiritual director suggest it's a good idea. The worst thing that could happen is that you discover it really isn't for you. One of our married members here was in seminary for a while. Search your heart and go wherever He tells you--you won't be led wrong.

[Bennn]

I've been outdoors today and I have spent the whole day talking to God about this. I think He's been telling me that I should stop forcing myself into things. My time in the monastery should've been a lesson to me that it isn't good to be stubborn and work my way to a state of life without being truly open to what the Lord has called me to do. If I look back on my past it makes a lot of sense if I were called to become a husband, and only this thought truly gives me inner peace. Not the false peace, that the devil knits together, but a profound peace that I had lost for a very long time.

I am definately going to talk to more Priests about this, though. I used to feel guilty whenever I thought of not becoming either a Priest or a monk. But it can't be good to pursue a Clerical state out of compulsion, right? I do know one thing, namely that God is humbling me by confronting me with myself.

+Pax Domini,
Ben

[Resurrexi]

Dude, I would suggest chillaxing for a while.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Bennn' date='24 May 2010 - 07:19 PM' timestamp='1274739569' post='2116711']
I am definately going to talk to more Priests about this, though. I used to feel guilty whenever I thought of not becoming either a Priest or a monk. But it can't be good to pursue a Clerical state out of compulsion, right? I do know one thing, namely that God is humbling me by confronting me with myself.
[/quote]

Of course... part of the sacrament of Holy Orders is the bishop's inquiry about you approaching the sacrament out of your free will. As an aside... I don't care so much for the vocation stories that include something about "running from God's calling." For one, virtually everybody (if you're not St. Thomas Aquinas) initially runs from God's calling. Two, it's not about us anyway. It's God's Story that we're caught up in. Let the story of your life be about God.

It's fine to meet with priests and all that... don't forget to get some coffee with a few ladies too