Draw Mohammad Day

[ThePenciledOne]

[quote name='T-Bone _' date='20 May 2010 - 04:18 AM' timestamp='1274339891' post='2114067']
Is this a good thing, or is it just needlessly aggravating an already tense situation?
[/quote]

Sadly and most logical conclusion, it is the latter.

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='nunsense' date='20 May 2010 - 08:58 AM' timestamp='1274363919' post='2114127']
You make me laugh because you are always so direct. I would never have the courage to say things as bluntly as you do.[/quote]

Glad to make someone laugh. But really, we should fear sin and nothing else. Speak the truth, and let it hit hard. Don't waffle. Make a bold claim, and let people try to tear it apart. Don't let anyone take an argument into the realm of the emotional. Emotions should be subject to reason.

[quote]I have heard that they consider Jesus a prophet (but obviously not as great a one as Mohammed) and that they also revere the Virgin Mary (but obviously not as the mother of God)[/quote]

Then they don't revere the Virgin Mary. Because that's who she is.

[quote]So why is it okay for them to look at images of the prophet Jesus but not the Prophet Mohammed?
[/quote]

Jesus is more handsome.

~Sternhauser

Edited May 20, 2010 by Sternhauser

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='Sternhauser' date='21 May 2010 - 12:05 AM' timestamp='1274364330' post='2114131']
Glad to make someone laugh. But really, we should fear sin and nothing else. Speak the truth, and let it hit hard. Don't waffle. Make a bold claim, and let people try to tear it apart. Don't let anyone take an argument into the realm of the emotional. Emotions should be subject to reason. [/quote]

Ah, but if I have all wisdom and lack charity....? I think I understand what you are saying, but my fear is that I might be unkind in the way I speak the truth, so perhaps I err on the side of caution, I don't know. That's okay, one Sternhauser is enough for the world. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif[/img]



[quote]Then they don't revere the Virgin Mary. Because that's who she is. [/quote]

True - they obviously revere their own misconception of her.


[quote] Jesus is more handsome. [/quote]

So true, dear brother, so true. He is Beauty itself... ancient and new.

[dominicansoul]

There are many evangelical protestants who take offense at images of Jesus...

It's sort of the same attitude the muslims have about images of mohammed, except protestants just object to images, period...i guess they think it's "idolatry."

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='dominicansoul' date='21 May 2010 - 12:24 AM' timestamp='1274365492' post='2114140']
There are many evangelical protestants who take offense at images of Jesus...

It's sort of the same attitude the muslims have about images of mohammed, except protestants just object to images, period...i guess they think it's "idolatry."
[/quote]


Well, the thing is that I have a favorite drawing of Jesus but I know it isn't really His image since we don't have photographs of Him. The Shroud of Turin may be the closest thing we have to His real image, and I have seen the pictures that artists have drawn from that. I think I use my picture of Jesus more as a focus point than anything else because I know that I will never really know what He looked like until I am with Him, and even then, I doubt that He will appear in a form that is in any way as I can imagine Him. The picture that I love sort of captures a 'feeling' that makes me think of Him.

I had a dream once where I died and was taken into His presence. He was radiating a light of such intense love that I couldn't really see Him except as a 'being' within the light - hard to describe. Later in the dream He appeared to me in His human form surrounded by children (as I must have been imagining Him from various paintings) and He 'told me' in the dream that His 'real form' was the radiant being of light and love that I had first seen but that He was now revealing Himself in His human form so that He wouldn't 'scare the children'.

So I know that no picture of Him is going to capture Him in all His divine beauty, but I also like to remember that He was here on earth as a man, living as one of us and pictures of Him remind me of His humanity and the condescension of God.

[Era Might]

[quote name='Sternhauser' date='20 May 2010 - 09:30 AM' timestamp='1274362200' post='2114120']Completely out of the blue, he points at a Time magazine he had, depicting Jesus riding a donkey into Jerusalem, and said, "There is your Jesus." Nice.[/quote]
I'm just curious why you considered that offensive. I probably would have smiled and said, "Indeed it is."

Edited May 20, 2010 by Era Might

[Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam]

[quote name='dominicansoul' date='20 May 2010 - 11:24 AM' timestamp='1274365492' post='2114140']
There are many evangelical protestants who take offense at images of Jesus...

It's sort of the same attitude the muslims have about images of mohammed, except protestants just object to images, period...i guess they think it's "idolatry."
[/quote]

Personally, I think iconoclasm and the forbidding of images is one the greatest Christian Heresies. It shows a general lack of understanding of the Incarnation. Iconoclasm shows a misunderstanding of humanity, by not realizing the human need to connect bodily to knowledge--all knowledge begins in the senses--and involvesa kind of denial of Christ's humanity by emphasizing the divinity so much as to disallow pictures which help the faithful connect to another being. Symbols make present in the mind a being that cannot be experienced physically at the time. To ban pictures is to misunderstand symbol, humanity, and the Incarnation.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam' date='20 May 2010 - 09:05 AM' timestamp='1274367952' post='2114155']
Personally, I think iconoclasm and the forbidding of images is one the greatest Christian Heresies. It shows a general lack of understanding of the Incarnation. Iconoclasm shows a misunderstanding of humanity, by not realizing the human need to connect bodily to knowledge--all knowledge begins in the senses--and involvesa kind of denial of Christ's humanity by emphasizing the divinity so much as to disallow pictures which help the faithful connect to another being. Symbols make present in the mind a being that cannot be experienced physically at the time. To ban pictures is to misunderstand symbol, humanity, and the Incarnation.
[/quote]
Well said!

The Second Council of Nicaea said that icons [i]are[/i] to be displayed in Churches, not that they simply [i]may[/i] be displayed. The decree of the council is a command not a suggestion. That said, the lack of iconography in a Church, and the absence of veneration of icons during worship, is a heresy.

Edited May 20, 2010 by Apotheoun

[Galloglasses' Alt]

Personally I didnt much care for draw Muhammad day. As much as a I vehemently dislike, (putting it mildly), Islam, I did not oppose other artists on Deviantart and other places I hang out with from drawing muhammad, but I refrained from drawing him, because, well.

I'd rather not be on a 'must-kill' blacklist for an artistic 'holiday' that I didnt give a beaver dam about in the first place.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='20 May 2010 - 09:13 AM' timestamp='1274361215' post='2114114']
It is the Muslims I encounter at MSU and UofM (I am 1/2 way between both schools) I generally have a poor experience with, as well as a lot of my experiences with outspoken Muslims on the Internet.
[/quote]



That is interesting. Most of my Jewish friends and family are fairly secular or religiously very liberal. The one Orthodox Jewish home I stayed with my family stayed was my mom's best friend and her family. They were very devout but also wonderfully hospitable, kind, and genuinely descent people. At my school there are two major factions of Jews. One is full of several people I am friends with and most are either reasonably secular. Of the other group (of course, they all know each other, I don't mean to suggest the groups are hermetically sealed) is very right wing and practice an Orthodox Judaism that is ranges from strongly to rabidly xenophobic, often times racist, and very confrontational. They are led by a 'Rabbi' who went to school here years ago and stayed to draw future Jewish students to his miserable world view. He has publicly said that his great regret is that he didn't stay in the IDF longer so he could kill more Arabs. He shouted down another rabbi at a meeting I was at (He other Rabbi got the better of him. As the good Rabbi tried to calm him He screamed, 'I'm not a member of your congregation' to which the other replied calmly, "No you are not...praise God". One of the students who fell in with him (it is larger than just him, because she and a few other aggressive orthodox didn't know each other before they disrupted things at this meeting) was fuming at the god rabbi and started to tell a story about a time she was publicly embarrassed while serving in the IDF by some Palestinian children. She used racist language to describe them began crying and screaming prayers and IDF songs in English and Hebrew and screaming that the right wing (her terms, not mind. And she used that term of right wing, not conservatives) youth of Israel are strong and many and they are the future and they cannot be stopped and then sobbed, screamed prayers and songs in Hebrew some more and then eventually just seethed as her friend cooled her down.

Sometimes in small communities the most extreme and unhealthy elements get clustered together and sort of feed off each other. Of course after that called down she, the crazy rabbi and some others like them got together to exchange information and coordinate more.

I guess what I'm saying is that meshugana tends to feed on itself.

I've also met crazy Muslims. My point was not to suggest that all Muslims show proper respect for your faith. Not at all. It was simply that I took some exception to your originality very general statement that seems to imply that all Muslims would fail to reciprocate the respect you showed for their religious sensibilities.

There are some, fanatical Jews out there. In Israel there are a lot and in a much smaller space than in most places of the world. There are fanatical Muslims out there. In some places like Egypt and Saudi Arabia there are a lot more in a much smaller area than in most parts of the world. And there are fanatics of all sorts in countries they or their parents have moved to whose values they have rejected.

In my experience though, most Jews and Muslim, like most people, just want to lead lives with fairly universal goals. Security for their family, opportunity for themselves and their children, and basic respect for their sacred. And generally, all other things being equal, they are happy to reciprocate these things for other people. Certainly not all. But I think most. Even if the majority isn't anywhere near where it ought to be.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='20 May 2010 - 05:05 AM' timestamp='1274357129' post='2114096']
I would be inclined to simply respect their beliefs about depictions of Mohammad as I would want them to respect our beliefs about the Eucharist. I see no reason to make drawings other than to mock Muslims and their beliefs.
[/quote]
+JMJ+
yes.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Sternhauser' date='20 May 2010 - 07:30 AM' timestamp='1274362200' post='2114120']
And while I know that one can certainly not judge a belief system by one of its claimed adherents,
such has been my experience with [practicing] Mahometans ever since, and I've come to some realizations. That they have no desire for "dialogue." They desire a Mahometan State, period. That we do [i]not[/i] worship the same God. No doubt they intend to. But it wasn't God that spoke to Mahomet. It was not God who caused Mahomet to want to jump off a cliff when he first heard the voice. [/quote]
I agree.

How I wish Hagia Sophia in Constantinople could be restored to its true purpose . . . it would be wonderful to hear the litanies of the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom sung out in praise of Christ God.

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='nunsense' date='20 May 2010 - 09:17 AM' timestamp='1274365040' post='2114139']
Ah, but if I have all wisdom and lack charity....? I think I understand what you are saying, but my fear is that I might be unkind in the way I speak the truth, so perhaps I err on the side of caution, I don't know. That's okay, one Sternhauser is enough for the world. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif[/img][/quote]

If you have all wisdom and lack charity, you're sinning. I stipulated that we should fear sin and nothing else.

[quote]
So true, dear brother, so true. He is Beauty itself... ancient and new.
[/quote]

Amen to that.

~Sternhauser

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='Era Might' date='20 May 2010 - 09:53 AM' timestamp='1274367232' post='2114152']
I'm just curious why you considered that offensive. I probably would have smiled and said, "Indeed it is."
[/quote]

It was quite a long time ago. For all I remember, that could have been my reaction. Or silence. Whether or not it was, in fact, offensive, the main point is that he [i]intended[/i] it to be offensive.

~Sternhauser

[The Dusk Man]

I know I will so get killed for this in one way or another, but I had to join the holiday.

[img]http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx56/muerterojo/muhampic.jpg[/img]


HI I DREW HIM, BUT CENSORED IT JUST IN CASE.