Do You Give To Beggars?

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='CatherineM' date='18 May 2010 - 12:43 PM' timestamp='1274201037' post='2112817']
You're wrong. Giving them money can make them feel as if they are entitled to the money, and if you don't give it or the next person they hit up doesn't, they will take what they feel is theirs.

If you don't believe me, read this [url="http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2007/08/02/bc-mugging.html?ref=rss"]Story[/url].
[/quote]
Ed's generalization is better imo. There is no "them" Catherine. We're all beggars. Some may be mentally ill or even violent and immoral, but there are many reasons why a person might become a beggar and it could happen to anyone. There have been millionaires who became beggars on the street. There is not some kind of vile subhuman race called beggars.

[Ed Normile]

[quote name='Era Might' date='18 May 2010 - 06:20 AM' timestamp='1274181629' post='2112681']
Who is "we"? YOU are supposed to meet their bodily needs. I am supposed to meet their bodily needs. I don't know who this abstract "we" is. When "we" do something, nobody does anything, because we live through this institutional non-person known as "we."
[/quote]


Well said Era, when "we" wait to do something it eventually gets done, just usually a little too late. plus 1

ed

[Era Might]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='18 May 2010 - 12:57 PM' timestamp='1274201871' post='2112832']There is not some kind of vile subhuman race called beggars.
[/quote]
You raise an important issue here...our society's view of beggars is primarily economic, not religious. We resent beggars because they have not fit in to our consumerist, institutionalized society. Since we buy into the ideology of our society, we just assume that the problem is with the beggars, not with the society that produces them. The ancient Greek idea that "beggars are the ambassadors of the gods" is foreign to us. In our society, beggars are the pathetic failures of our wonderful society.

If anyone's interested, there's a good book on this topic called "The Fear of Beggars: Stewardship and Poverty in Christian Ethics" by Kelly S. Johnson. She examines various historical Christian perspectives on beggars, from Franciscans to Protestant philosophers to Peter Maurin.

Edited May 18, 2010 by Era Might

[Lil Red]

+JMJ+
[quote name='MithLuin' date='17 May 2010 - 10:50 AM' timestamp='1274118659' post='2111967']I agree that supporting charities (food pantries, shelters, soup kitchens, etc) is a better way to help people who need help. Giving food allows me to make human contact and smile, and for us to say "God bless" to each other. I think that's a nice gesture in life, and sometimes more important than the pack of peanut butter crackers. Just a reminder that we're all human, all in this together.[/quote]
thank you, something i need to think on.

[quote name='nunsense' date='17 May 2010 - 06:37 PM' timestamp='1274146632' post='2112400']Sometimes just being able to acknowledge a person and speak with them can make them feel loved by God, and that is much better than giving them money or even food, since our souls are fed by God's love. Yes, it can be dangerous to speak with strangers, so one might need to gauge their time and place - perhaps not a dark alley at night in NYC ? But whenever we can treat each other with love, I know that it must be pleasing to God and so much more valuable to a beggar than even they realize.[/quote]
again, thank you.

[Ed Normile]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='18 May 2010 - 11:57 AM' timestamp='1274201871' post='2112832']
Ed's generalization is better imo. There is no "them" Catherine. We're all beggars. Some may be mentally ill or even violent and immoral, but there are many reasons why a person might become a beggar and it could happen to anyone. There have been millionaires who became beggars on the street. There is not some kind of vile subhuman race called beggars.
[/quote]


True Laudate Dominum, my dad used to say "There, but for the grace of God, am I" which he used whenever he seen a poor downtrodden person or a drunk, his reasoning was the things that lead one to whatever path they take could easily lead any of us to a downfall, but for the grace of God. It always strikes me when one talks about alcoholics as if they chose to be that way, alcoholism is a disease, be it a mental or physical one is beyond me, I have seen several people I knew in my time that drink has ruined their lives, and they never chose to have it happen that way. It was as if they tried their first drink and almost as if someone threw a switch, they could not control it. LD I would have given you a +1 but I used it for Era's post.

ed

[CatherineM]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='18 May 2010 - 11:57 AM' timestamp='1274201871' post='2112832']
Ed's generalization is better imo. There is no "them" Catherine. We're all beggars. Some may be mentally ill or even violent and immoral, but there are many reasons why a person might become a beggar and it could happen to anyone. There have been millionaires who became beggars on the street. There is not some kind of vile subhuman race called beggars.
[/quote]
I'm well aware. I've worked in homeless shelters on and off for years. Thinking that I believe anyone is subhuman is actually kind of funny on so many levels. I'm on my way out the door to give a speech to a bunch of social workers at a downtown drop in shelter about how to deal with the mentally ill homeless. They know my husband and I so well, that I'm sure they will get a laugh out of this though.

[Era Might]

[quote name='tinytherese' date='18 May 2010 - 12:03 AM' timestamp='1274155439' post='2112531']
What about religious communities that take care of the poor for their apostolate Era?[/quote]
Community and Institutions are two different things. A genuine community is a beautiful thing. Jean Vanier, for example, founded the l'Arche communities which welcome mentally handicapped people. These communities are alternatives to institutions that "help" the mentally handicapped. In the l'Arche communities, the relationships are community relationships, not professional relationships. The mentally disabled are as much members of the community as the so-called "healthy" people.

That being said, a community can turn into an institution, and I don't think that is a good thing.

[quote name='tinytherese' date='18 May 2010 - 12:03 AM' timestamp='1274155439' post='2112531']Or what if someone has discerned that God is calling them to join an organization to help these people as a lay person.[/quote]
I cannot tell other people what to do with their lives. I can only point out the nature of institutions. We all have to decide to what degree we are willing to be complicit in these institutions. It's almost impossible in our institutionalized society not to be complicit to some degree. I would advise those who choose to work in institutions to be aware of the nature of institutions.

Edited May 18, 2010 by Era Might

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='CatherineM' date='18 May 2010 - 01:10 PM' timestamp='1274202620' post='2112855']
I'm well aware. I've worked in homeless shelters on and off for years. Thinking that I believe anyone is subhuman is actually kind of funny on so many levels. I'm on my way out the door to give a speech to a bunch of social workers at a downtown drop in shelter about how to deal with the mentally ill homeless. They know my husband and I so well, that I'm sure they will get a laugh out of this though.
[/quote]
I didn't presume to think that you believe that, only suggesting that your perplexing response to Ed was vague. I'm sure you are beyond reproach.

[Winchester]

Giving individual money might not be the most practical thing to do, but we are not saved by practicality.

[iheartjp2]

No, I don't. Where I live in Michigan, there are many charities and programs that help people get back on their feet if they really want to do it. On top of that, my area is flooded with Democrats. It's almost a slap in the face to people who pay taxes and provide these people with money through the government, and then they want "a dollar or two" for food (or whatever).

[brightsadness]

Yes. I always keep $5.00 in ones in my pocket and give it until it's gone. If the Lord sends someone into my path who asks for help, I give what I can. If no one asks on a given day, it goes into the charity box at Church.

[CatherineM]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='18 May 2010 - 12:17 PM' timestamp='1274203034' post='2112864']
I didn't presume to think that you believe that, only suggesting that your perplexing response to Ed was vague. I'm sure you are beyond reproach.
[/quote]
I'm far from beyond reproach. My mother in law tried to get me deported as a terrorist, and that was before she met me.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='CatherineM' date='18 May 2010 - 03:15 PM' timestamp='1274210125' post='2112933']
I'm far from beyond reproach. My mother in law tried to get me deported as a terrorist, and that was before she met me.
[/quote]
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