Do You Give To Beggars?

[tinytherese]

What about religious communities that take care of the poor for their apostolate Era? Or what if someone has discerned that God is calling them to join an organization to help these people as a lay person. Also, social workers get very little money, and so many people are willing to do it because they are so dedicated to helping people. How someone can do that in all sincerity as a social worker or similar job without loving the people that they serve is unfathomable to me. I've also known social workers, therapists, nurses, and doctors reach out and help me in a loving way and they sometimes share personal details of their lives with me so that I can see that they can at least somewhat understand what I am going through and that I am a human being who has real worth. Also in my experience, sure the average person can help them at least somewhat, but in a limited way. Those who are loving and well-trained professionals can offer them more than your average Joe. We can work together instead of apart. Why must it be either or?

As far as inviting strangers into your home, one has to think about one's own safety as well as the safety of one's loved ones. Would a mother really want to put her husband and children in such danger? You can't reach somebody when you're dead or severely injured. One can minister to them in a public place, be reasonably cautious, and connect with them. Remember that some of the gifts of The Holy Spirit are wisdom and counsel.

[Hilde]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='18 May 2010 - 05:42 AM' timestamp='1274150547' post='2112428']
Not so much, to be honest. The goal is [the] soul. The goal should be to bring them to Christ and to bring Christ to them, moreso than just getting them off the street. Getting them off the street is a great thing, but it's a secondary goal.
[/quote]
I can't find any sources on it right now, but I actually think it's the other way around. This is what we call Diakonia around here. I know a representative for Caritas international and he said is wasn't really a goal at all, the goal was to follow our call to diakonia and I don't remember which pope that said it, but he said something about putting eternal salvation on the line.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Hilde' date='17 May 2010 - 11:07 PM' timestamp='1274155676' post='2112538']
I can't find any sources on it right now, but I actually think it's the other way around. This is what we call Diakonia around here. I know a representative for Caritas international and he said is wasn't really a goal at all, the goal was to follow our call to diakonia and I don't remember which pope that said it, but he said something about putting eternal salvation on the line.
[/quote]
I would have to disagree. If we place the material needs to mankind above the spiritual needs, we risk turning the Gospel from an opportunity for spiritual perfection, into simply a political manifesto. We run the risk of losing the entire message of the Church and replacing it with an anthropocentric ideology.

[Hilde]

I would say a live or die situation is more than just material needs. We're not talking about lobster dinner or a corvette here.
I just put a lot a stock in what he says, because he has studied the social teachings and work with this every day.

[Luigi]

I was apporached by a guy one day - claimed he was hungry (and I guess he was) but I could also smell alcohol on his breath. Well, drunks need food, too, I reckoned, and we were right across the street from a Burger King. Perhaps the spirit of St. Vincent de Paul moved me, because I offered to take him over there and buy him a meal - I was going to get one for myself, too. He turned suddenly hinky and stammered out that his doctor didn't want him eating a lot of meat....

Since then, I usually offer to buy the person something to eat - and if anybody ever took me up on the offer, I'd sit there and eat with them. But no one has accepted the offer yet.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Hilde' date='17 May 2010 - 11:17 PM' timestamp='1274156276' post='2112555']
I would say a live or die situation is more than just material needs. We're not talking about lobster dinner or a corvette here.
I just put a lot a stock in what he says, because he has studied the social teachings and work with this every day.
[/quote]
To provide for those in need is something we do *because of* our love of Christ and the Church. In my opinion, if we go too far in emphasizing the material needs, we risk reversing this, and we fall into a trap of loving Christ and the Church solely by providing for the less fortunate. Of course it's admirable in and of itself to do so, but if we focus on people rather than on God, we tend to lose sight of the eternity aspect.

[Ash Wednesday]

I've given food before, but never money. There's a sign outside of Westminster Cathedral in London in accordance with the city with a striking photograph of a crime scene outline of a body, only it's coins assembled in the shape of a body informing people that if you give beggars money, you may be making things worse (i.e. spending it on booze, drugs).

I remember running into some guy from South Africa when I was in Oxford once. I wasn't sure if he was a druggie or just a kid down on his luck, but he was one weird dude and wanted some money and wouldn't stop talking. Really friendly fellow, I bought him a pizza instead.

[Ed Normile]

I always give money to beggars, I hope if I ever need it someone would be so kind to help me. Beggars are never thiefs, if they were they would not be asking for money, they would just take it. As far as where the money goes, I really do not care if it is for food or drugs or booze or cigarettes, if it helps them out or gives them some peace or comfort I wish them the best. Can you imagine what it must be like to be so wanton that you have to beg for cash as you have no other way to purchase the thing you need, whether it is food or whatever. I would hate to die and see an angel or maybe Jesus and have them say to me I asked you for some money once and you denied me, I forgive you. How long would it take me to forgive myself?

ed

[Era Might]

[quote name='Norseman82' date='17 May 2010 - 11:52 PM' timestamp='1274154774' post='2112518']
So what? As long as we meet their bodily needs......
[/quote]
Who is "we"? YOU are supposed to meet their bodily needs. I am supposed to meet their bodily needs. I don't know who this abstract "we" is. When "we" do something, nobody does anything, because we live through this institutional non-person known as "we."

Edited May 18, 2010 by Era Might

[MithLuin]

I think [b]Era[/b] makes a very good point about the humanity of the encounter. Meaning, we were commanded to [i]love[/i] our neighbor first, and that does more than imply a relationship. So, yes, respect a person's dignity. Look them in the eye. If you can, be willing to listen to them, to hear a life story.

There is no either/or to it, though. There's nothing wrong with handing out granola bars or buying a lunch for someone. And supporting charitable organizations might be more removed, but that doesn't make it bad. Providing for physical needs (directly or indirectly) is important, too.

It also doesn't hurt to know a bit about how addictions work. Addicts will by definition try to use people and work the system to get what they 'need.' It's a powerful compulsion, and as ashamed as they are of their actions...it's not like they can just stop. Some don't want to. Being an enabler does [i]not[/i] show love to someone.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Era Might' date='18 May 2010 - 07:20 AM' timestamp='1274181629' post='2112681']
Who is "we"? YOU are supposed to meet their bodily needs. I am supposed to meet their bodily needs. I don't know who this abstract "we" is. When "we" do something, nobody does anything, because we live through this institutional non-person known as "we."
[/quote]
Era-- You make it sounds like institutions are run by robots devoid of human compassion and emotion. All of us are "we"-- the person who buys the beggar a burger at BK, the person who hands them information on shelters, the person who hands out rolls at the soup kitchen.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Ed Normile' date='18 May 2010 - 02:26 AM' timestamp='1274163974' post='2112653']
I always give money to beggars, I hope if I ever need it someone would be so kind to help me. Beggars are never thiefs, if they were they would not be asking for money, they would just take it. As far as where the money goes, I really do not care if it is for food or drugs or booze or cigarettes, if it helps them out or gives them some peace or comfort I wish them the best. Can you imagine what it must be like to be so wanton that you have to beg for cash as you have no other way to purchase the thing you need, whether it is food or whatever. I would hate to die and see an angel or maybe Jesus and have them say to me I asked you for some money once and you denied me, I forgive you. How long would it take me to forgive myself?

ed[/quote]
I hear you, brother. +1

[Chiquitunga]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='17 May 2010 - 02:50 PM' timestamp='1274125826' post='2112034']
In Chicago, we have a newspaper called Streetwise that is sold by homeless people, published by an organization that helps the homeless. The vendors have to register and wear an identity necklace so you know they are authorized vendors.

Whenever I see someone selling the magazine, I buy it, even if I already have that issue. And, I give the seller an extra dollar or two more than the price. The vendors are not allowed to ask for extra money (and I have never had one ask), but they are allowed to accept extra money if you give it.

I figure that when I give money to a Streetwise vendor, I'm giving it to someone who is really trying to make their situation better. It's not easy for them to stand outside in all weathers, selling a newspaper. By selling a newspaper, it gives them more dignity than simply begging.

I do this in addition to "official" giving to charities.

That could easily be me someday.
[/quote]

Hey, thanks! I'm often in Chicago visiting family, and I didn't realize that. I used to [i]sometimes[/i] give to beggars but recently I've decided to stop after a bad experience. As others have said, it only enables them. I've see those guys selling Streetwise though, and I figured it was something like that .. but didn't know all the specifics. Thanks again!

Edited May 18, 2010 by Chiquitunga

[Era Might]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' date='18 May 2010 - 09:24 AM' timestamp='1274189052' post='2112703']
Era-- You make it sounds like institutions are run by robots devoid of human compassion and emotion. All of us are "we"-- the person who buys the beggar a burger at BK, the person who hands them information on shelters, the person who hands out rolls at the soup kitchen.
[/quote]
I sure hope that the person handing out rolls at a soup kitchen is able to form some kind of personal relationship in that encounter. But if they do, that is a personal encounter. The only "we" is between the two people who are face to face...between the Samaritan and the injured Jew on the road to Jericho. When people live through institutions, they absolve themselves of the invitation to form a "we" with another living breathing person.

An institutionalized society is based on the idea of professional service. The assumption is that actual people are incompetent (e.g., incompetent to learn [hence modern schools], incompetent to take care of the sick and elderly [hence nursing homes and similar institutions], incompetent to encounter the poor and distressed [hence institutions of charity], etc.). We are able to pass by beggars on the street because we see them as a "social problem." They aren't real...they are just clients for an institution. We know that the institutions exist, and the institutions serve to assuage the vocational horror that the beggar arouses in us. Thus, we donate money for an abstract class of people called "the homeless," and that absolves us of our responsibility for a face-to-face encounter which the beggar demands of us. Sure, we feel some kind of responsibility...but only because the beggar is part of that abstract class of people called "the homeless." Christian charity is about personal relationship, not about abstract classes or about "social problems." When a Christian encounters a beggar, that beggar is inviting the Christian to relationship. Feeding or clothing the person in front of you is important because a personal relationship is between two people with bodies, who have bodily needs...but feeding and clothing is not the PURPOSE of personal relationship. The purpose is the communion of two people.

The "we" that is formed in the encounter between two people can only take place between those two people. I have nothing to do with the "we" of two other people. I must form my own "we" with each person. But institutions absolve us of that responsibility. Institutions turn charity into professional "service." Institutions turn learning into professional "teaching." Institutions turn community into professional "organization." Etc. In other words, institutions create an abstract non-personal entity called "we," rather than the personal "we" of two people.

Edited May 18, 2010 by Era Might

[CatherineM]

[quote name='Ed Normile' date='18 May 2010 - 01:26 AM' timestamp='1274163974' post='2112653']
Beggars are never thiefs, if they were they would not be asking for money, they would just take it.

ed
[/quote]
You're wrong. Giving them money can make them feel as if they are entitled to the money, and if you don't give it or the next person they hit up doesn't, they will take what they feel is theirs.

If you don't believe me, read this [url="http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2007/08/02/bc-mugging.html?ref=rss"]Story[/url].